Am I out of luck if I want a HDMI splitter that strips HDCP 2.2 in the US?

[usually_quiet]

Sorry last post. I got an email from Velocap claiming their product will accept an 4k60 input through the hd fury integral. They also confirmed their product strips HDCP, as I have seen their products do so in the past I believe that. Feel free to be skeptical, but some people might find the information useful.

Given your history of misrepresenting the facts in this thread, everyone should be skeptical.

"will accept 2160p60 input through the HDFury Integral" could mean the HDFury Integral downscales 4K at 60 fps to a lower resolution that the Velocap device can accept at 60fps.

[ezcapper]

I meant the latter. The velocap will accept the 4k60 4:2:0 8 bit video that the integral sends it and capture it. It might not be true, but this is what they confirmed they believe their device can/will do.

[usually_quiet]

I meant the latter. The velocap will accept the 4k60 4:2:0 8 bit video that the integral sends it and capture it. It might not be true, but this is what they confirmed they believe their device can/will do.

The quality of a 4:2:0 8-bit capture will be poor compared to an 4:4:4 8-bit or 4:2:2 8-bit source. 75% of the original chroma information is lost when a 4:4:4 source is captured at 4:2:0. Text will be less sharp and gradients will show banding artifacts, which is probably not going to be acceptable to most gamers after making a $700 equipment purchase (Velocap 4K capture device pus HDFury Integral).

.

[ezcapper]

I meant the latter. The velocap will accept the 4k60 4:2:0 8 bit video that the integral sends it and capture it. It might not be true, but this is what they confirmed they believe their device can/will do.

The quality of a 4:2:0 8-bit capture will be poor compared to an 4:4:4 8-bit or 4:2:2 8-bit source. 75% of the original chroma information is lost when a 4:4:4 source is captured at 4:2:0. Text will be less sharp and gradients will show banding artifacts, which is probably not going to be acceptable to most gamers after making a $700 equipment purchase (Velocap 4K capture device pus HDFury Integral).

.

Good point. Another option that would provide better chroma information but downsize the resolution would be the buy an hd fury linker as well and add it to the chain to output full 1080p60 4:4:4 to the velocap. This would definitely work and provide a better, sharper picture than a regular 1080p60 capture, but it is obviously not 4k so probably not a great option for everyone either, particularly at the steep price

[usually_quiet]

I meant the latter. The velocap will accept the 4k60 4:2:0 8 bit video that the integral sends it and capture it. It might not be true, but this is what they confirmed they believe their device can/will do.

The quality of a 4:2:0 8-bit capture will be poor compared to an 4:4:4 8-bit or 4:2:2 8-bit source. 75% of the original chroma information is lost when a 4:4:4 source is captured at 4:2:0. Text will be less sharp and gradients will show banding artifacts, which is probably not going to be acceptable to most gamers after making a $700 equipment purchase (Velocap 4K capture device pus HDFury Integral).

.

Good point. Another option that would provide better chroma information but downsize the resolution would be the buy an hd fury linker as well and add it to the chain to output full 1080p60 4:4:4 to the velocap. This would definitely work and provide a better, sharper picture than a regular 1080p60 capture, but it is obviously not 4k so probably not a great option for everyone either, particularly at the steep price

Bull$hit. If anyone needed proof positive that you are nothing more than an HDFury shill, here it is. Devices that output at UHD resolutions can also output 1080p. There are plenty of less expensive solutions for 1080p60 capture that would provide very good results.

[ezcapper]

I meant the latter. The velocap will accept the 4k60 4:2:0 8 bit video that the integral sends it and capture it. It might not be true, but this is what they confirmed they believe their device can/will do.

The quality of a 4:2:0 8-bit capture will be poor compared to an 4:4:4 8-bit or 4:2:2 8-bit source. 75% of the original chroma information is lost when a 4:4:4 source is captured at 4:2:0. Text will be less sharp and gradients will show banding artifacts, which is probably not going to be acceptable to most gamers after making a $700 equipment purchase (Velocap 4K capture device pus HDFury Integral).

.

Good point. Another option that would provide better chroma information but downsize the resolution would be the buy an hd fury linker as well and add it to the chain to output full 1080p60 4:4:4 to the velocap. This would definitely work and provide a better, sharper picture than a regular 1080p60 capture, but it is obviously not 4k so probably not a great option for everyone either, particularly at the steep price

Bull$hit. If anyone needed proof positive that you are nothing more than an HDFury shill, here it is. Devices that output at UHD resolutions can also output 1080p. There are plenty of less expensive solutions for 1080p60 capture that would provide very good results.

It is not the 4k device that outputs 1080p. The integral converts the hdcp to 1.4, then the linker takes that and outputs 1080p60 4:4:4. This is just if you have a 4k device and you cannot figure out any other way to capture from it. It is hard to make captures from many 4k devices. I am not saying it is the best way, only that you get an extremely good quality picture and this is for if you only have a 4k source and a 1080p60 one is not available. Many times, downscaled 4k can look better than native 1080p. But again, only an emergency situation if you only have a 4k source and nothing else. This will get you a very high quality hd capture every single time, regardless of what framerate or hdmi version the source is. 1080p60 4:4:4 picture quality is not 4k, but it is still extremely good, especially on smaller screens. And there is no guess work here, this method is commonly acknowledged to work. But I agree, not worth the price.

[usually_quiet]

It is not the 4k device that outputs 1080p. The integral converts the hdcp to 1.4, then the linker takes that and outputs 1080p60 4:4:4. This is just if you have a 4k device and you cannot figure out any other way to capture from it. It is hard to make captures from many 4k devices. I am not saying it is the best way, only that you get an extremely good quality picture and this is for if you only have a 4k source and a 1080p60 one is not available. Many times, downscaled 4k can look better than native 1080p. But again, only an emergency situation if you only have a 4k source and nothing else. This will get you a very high quality hd capture every single time, regardless of what framerate or hdmi version the source is. 1080p60 4:4:4 picture quality is not 4k, but it is still extremely good, especially on smaller screens. And there is no guess work here, this method is commonly acknowledged to work. But I agree, not worth the price.

It is also a well-known fact that shills are professional liars and anything they tell you should be viewed with suspicion.

Fortunately, most people are smarter than you are, and would realize that it is possible to configure their game console or PC video card to output video at 1080p instead of 4K (video cards and game consoles can scale video too) and avoid paying for hundreds of dollars worth of HDFury equipment that they don't need to capture video games at 1080p60 4:4:4.

[ezcapper]

you are right I am an idiot not well thought out. To the original poster, more words in my longwinded boring style. HDCP 2.2 has been completely broken by the Chinese using the HD Fury Integral alone. At the moment anyone with $$$ can buy the Integral splitter/stripper, place it between the source and an Avermedia 4k60 card, "upgrade" to the "Chinese forum" firmware, use software compression and create a 4k60 capture. Would I do this? After being influenced by usually quiet, no. He is right, I am wrong.

But I am bringing it up because I don't understand how Warner Bros. lost their case against HD Fury. The Integral allows users to completely remove HDCP 2.2, not downgrade it as they claim (Integral has 2 outputs, one can pass thru input signal up to 4k60 4:4:4). The HD Fury creator even brags about the Chinese forum firmware and it is all to easy to find download links for it on the internet. Fury claims that they are in the clear because the companies like Netflix use their product. But that shouldn't give them license to do whatever they want. I don't understand. If someone could explain this in a new thread I would greatly appreciate it.

They are in litigation again, hopefully the product will be discontinued shortly. On AVS forums, I am finally seeing the signs that HDFury is less confident about winning his case, but I could be wrong. Maybe we are at the light at the end of the tunnel, these are strange times. I look forward to hdcp 2.3 or whatever is next. I will change my ways my friend usually_quiet.

[jagabo]

I don't understand how Warner Bros. lost their case against HD Fury.

HD Fury is based in China. WB can't touch them there. They may get a judgement in the USA but that won't stop HD Fury from producing the devices and selling the in China -- and hence a grey market to the USA and the rest of the world.

[usually_quiet]

you are right I am an idiot not well thought out. To the original poster, more words in my longwinded boring style. HDCP 2.2 has been completely broken by the Chinese using the HD Fury Integral alone. At the moment anyone with $$$ can buy the Integral splitter/stripper, place it between the source and an Avermedia 4k60 card, "upgrade" to the "Chinese forum" firmware, use software compression and create a 4k60 capture. Would I do this? After being influenced by usually quiet, no. He is right, I am wrong.

But I am bringing it up because I don't understand how Warner Bros. lost their case against HD Fury. The Integral allows users to completely remove HDCP 2.2, not downgrade it as they claim (Integral has 2 outputs, one can pass thru input signal up to 4k60 4:4:4). The HD Fury creator even brags about the Chinese forum firmware and it is all to easy to find download links for it on the internet. Fury claims that they are in the clear because the companies like Netflix use their product. But that shouldn't give them license to do whatever they want. I don't understand. If someone could explain this in a new thread I would greatly appreciate it.

They are in litigation again, hopefully the product will be discontinued shortly. On AVS forums, I am finally seeing the signs that HDFury is less confident about winning his case, but I could be wrong. Maybe we are at the light at the end of the tunnel, these are strange times. I look forward to hdcp 2.3 or whatever is next. I will change my ways my friend usually_quiet.

HDfury's own product description indicates the HDFury Integral doesn't strip HDCP 2.2, but instead downgrades it to HDCP 1.4. I'm sure that more people knowing that this isn't true and it really can strip HDCP 2.2 won't help their court case, but hey anything you can do to sell more units before the axe falls will surely be appreciated.

Of course, the HDR meta data is the thing that makes UHD video via HDMI 2.0 truly revolutionary. HDR makes such a huge difference that if someone watches the same video again without it, they are likely to be disappointed. Too bad the capture devices you are pushing aren't able to make use of it in any way, but I guess no capture devices can at present.

[Edit]..and yes, you are a total jackass for making up completely transparent stories trying to hide your intent and an idiot for not figuring out that promoting hacked firmware is allowed here.

Lost my internet connection for a bit...

Of course if hacked firmware or software for the Avermdia CE511-H which would remove HDCP 2.2 ever exists and AverMedia hasn't already updated its hardware to disable it, the HDFury Integral would then be completely unnecessary as a capture aid (Just speculating, but this happens quite often for AverMedia products.)

[ezcapper]

you are right I am an idiot not well thought out. To the original poster, more words in my longwinded boring style. HDCP 2.2 has been completely broken by the Chinese using the HD Fury Integral alone. At the moment anyone with $$$ can buy the Integral splitter/stripper, place it between the source and an Avermedia 4k60 card, "upgrade" to the "Chinese forum" firmware, use software compression and create a 4k60 capture. Would I do this? After being influenced by usually quiet, no. He is right, I am wrong.

But I am bringing it up because I don't understand how Warner Bros. lost their case against HD Fury. The Integral allows users to completely remove HDCP 2.2, not downgrade it as they claim (Integral has 2 outputs, one can pass thru input signal up to 4k60 4:4:4). The HD Fury creator even brags about the Chinese forum firmware and it is all to easy to find download links for it on the internet. Fury claims that they are in the clear because the companies like Netflix use their product. But that shouldn't give them license to do whatever they want. I don't understand. If someone could explain this in a new thread I would greatly appreciate it.

They are in litigation again, hopefully the product will be discontinued shortly. On AVS forums, I am finally seeing the signs that HDFury is less confident about winning his case, but I could be wrong. Maybe we are at the light at the end of the tunnel, these are strange times. I look forward to hdcp 2.3 or whatever is next. I will change my ways my friend usually_quiet.

HDfury's own product description indicates the HDFury Integral doesn't strip HDCP 2.2, but instead downgrades it to HDCP 1.4. I'm sure that more people knowing that this isn't true and it really can strip HDCP 2.2 won't help their court case, but hey anything you can do to sell more units before the axe falls will surely be appreciated.

Of course, the HDR meta data is the thing that makes UHD video via HDMI 2.0 truly revolutionary. HDR makes such a huge difference that if someone watches the same video again without it, they are likely to be disappointed. Too bad the capture devices you are pushing aren't able to make use of it in any way, but I guess no capture devices can at present.

[Edit]..and yes, you are a total jackass for making up completely transparent stories trying to hide your intent and an idiot for not figuring out that promoting hacked firmware is allowed here.

Lost my internet connection for a bit...

Of course if hacked firmware or software for the Avermdia CE511-H which would remove HDCP 2.2 ever exists and AverMedia hasn't already updated its hardware to disable it, the HDFury Integral would then be completely unnecessary as a capture aid (Just speculating, but this happens quite often for AverMedia products.)

unfortunately, it appears hdr metadata can be autogenerated and added to the captured stream upon playback by placing the HDFury Integral in between the media player/PC used to play back the file and the monitor/tv. So the user's final experience will include seeing HDR-enabled video if they have a compatible monitor/tv and the integral. Hopefully, the CE511-H's firmware won't be hacked and HDFury will lose it's court case, usually_quiet, my brother from another mother.

[Cornucopia]

Bullcrap, one cannot autogenerate hdr data. Period. On any device.

Scott

[usually_quiet]

He just loves to make things up doesn't he?

[ezcapper]

Bullcrap, one cannot autogenerate hdr data. Period. On any device.

Scott

I hope you are right, but unfortunately I'm not sure, as this video seems to suggest the opposite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTev9zWBNLY

[usually_quiet]

I watched the video. Scott is right. The HDFury isn't autogenerating HDR metadata. The AVTOPcontroller software and the human being operating it are creating the metadata. However the new metadata the ATOPcontroller software produces won't be the same as the original metadata except by chance, and probably won't be close to the original's quality unless the person operating the software it knows what they are doing.

I hope ezcaper will stop posting misleading information and falsehoods, but I don't think my hope will come to pass.

[ezcapper]

hopefully you are right, but it seems like it is very easy to put in the settings for generic hdr10 metadata, save it as a preset, then click the "generate infoframe" button to have it autogenerate the metadata for the stream that adheres to the common hdr standard. It seems like it is a less than one minute process to have the gui autogenerate the metadata. Most human beings do not have the knowlege the create the metadata, so the gui autogenerates it for the human when they fill out the basic hdr10 settings and hit "generate infofile". Then after they do it once, they just use the preset.

Unfortunately, CTA has released the hdr10 media profile for the public:

* Note: HDR10 Media Profile is defined as:
EOTF: SMPTE ST 2084
Color Sub-sampling: 4:2:0 (for compressed video sources)
Bit Depth: 10 bit
Color Primaries: ITU-R BT.2020
Metadata: SMPTE ST 2086, MaxFALL, MaxCLL

https://www.cta.tech/News/Press-Releases/2015/August/CEA-Defines-%E2%80%98HDR-Compatib...-Displays.aspx

The actual metadata for each stream is unique, but is autogenerated by AVTOP controller and the integral. The user does not have to create any.

I was quite surprised when I saw that the color subsampling was 4:2:0 and that is good enough to be the standard for sources like UHD 4k Blu-Ray, Netflix, Amazon, etc, because I have heard it mentioned that it is low quality. But it is part of the standard, so I guess it must be pretty good. Because those sources, especially UHD Blu-Ray are not low quality picture at all.

Off topic, but interesting to me was that here is part of the general UHD Blu-Ray spec, one of the highest picture quality sources available:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

Up to 4K resolution
4:2:0 color sub-sampling
Up to 10 bit color
Up to 60 frames per second
Support for wide color gamuts (ex REC.2020)
Support for HDR10 and Dolby Vision
No 3D support
HDCP2.2

Note: Dolby Vision is optional and not supported by any currently available players that I know of. HDR10 is compatible to be used in place of Dolby Vision. For example, it is required to be on all UHD discs that contain HDR, even if Dolby Vision is present.

If for some reason this does stuff does not make sense to a user, they will just use the "Short, p3, 0-1000nit" preset that comes with the gui. A user's picture will probably use about 90% or less of the p3 color range and though 10,000 nit is not widely supported by display hardware right at the moment, I would not personally like it even if it was available because it is too bright for me. It will eventually become available, I think it is an ideal goal for Dolby Vision. All joking aside, I personally hope HDR is just a fad, I don't like it personally. But definitely understand if others do.

Edit: If for some reason the user simply has to manually enter the hdr data from the original stream into the capture, they will do it. The integral has an hdr extractor that captures the original stream's hdr (the thing that looks like 0a:03:0c bla bla bla). Then using an SEI Editor such as SEIEdit, they will add the original stream's metadata to the final capture. This will make a 1:1 copy of the original stream's hdr

[usually_quiet]

I wonder how many people are using ezcapper's account to shill here on behalf of HDFury. At least two I reckon, because one did not know enough to read the user manual on a Blu-Ray recorder to find out if it would record at UHD resolutions and what connections it could use for recording..

[ezcapper]

I wonder how many people are using ezcapper's account to shill here on behalf of HDFury. At least two I reckon, because one did not know enough to read the user manual on a Blu-Ray recorder to find out if it would record at UHD resolutions and what connections it could use for recording..

To answer your question and ease your mind, just one, it is just me, my brother from another mother usually_quiet.

[usually_quiet]

I was quite surprised when I saw that the color subsampling was 4:2:0 and that is good enough to be the standard for sources like UHD 4k Blu-Ray, Netflix, Amazon, etc, because I have heard it mentioned that it is low quality. But it is part of the standard, so I guess it must be pretty good. Because those sources, especially UHD Blu-Ray are not low quality picture at all.

Sure they are, compared to the best that is possible for those resolutions. Only the luma data for 4:2:0 is at full resolution. The chroma data is 25% of that. UHD Blu-ray (10-bit) has a higher bit depth than Blu-ray (8-bit) to allow a wider color gamut, so there is some improvement there.

[Cyber Akuma]

I am not worrying about finding a capture device, I can get one later when 4k capture is more viable, for now I just wanted to see my options for stripping HDCP 2.2.

[usually_quiet]

I am not worrying about finding a capture device, I can get one later when 4k capture is more viable, for now I just wanted to see my options for stripping HDCP 2.2.

I doubt that there are any cheap splitters able to do what you want now, and maybe there never were any. HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 are still fairly new**, so it is possible a cheap splitter that strips HDCP 2.2 or a reasonably-priced capture device that ignores it will turn up in the future.

[Edit]**HDMI 2.0a was only released in April 2015.

[Cornucopia]

I am not worrying about finding a capture device, I can get one later when 4k capture is more viable, for now I just wanted to see my options for stripping HDCP 2.2.

Don't hold your breath.

Scott

[ezcapper]

deleted

[Cyber Akuma]

I am not worrying about finding a capture device, I can get one later when 4k capture is more viable, for now I just wanted to see my options for stripping HDCP 2.2.

Don't hold your breath.

Scott

Why? I am sure 4K capture devices will eventually come out, I mean, all capture devices used to be SD until HD started becoming popular.

[ezcapper]

I am not worrying about finding a capture device, I can get one later when 4k capture is more viable, for now I just wanted to see my options for stripping HDCP 2.2.

Don't hold your breath.

Scott

Why? I am sure 4K capture devices will eventually come out, I mean, all capture devices used to be SD until HD started becoming popular.

Av.io has a 4k30 capture card at the $400 price point. A rep for the company told me they would "definitely" have a 4k60 device out in a couple years.

Magewell has a 4k60 card under the 1000 pound price point. It is compatible with OBS (so hardware encoding!!!)

I'm also interested to see what Velocap does in the future. They have a $450 4k30 card out now that is HDCP 1.x compliant

Radeon has made a 8k 120 fps capture card with hardware encoding called SSG or something like that. They haven't released it yet, and might never. I'm sure it will never be cheap though, probably $10k. Not really interested in that

[Brad]

Here is an 18Gbps (600Mhz) splitter that does HDCP 2.2 -> 1.4 conversion and supports HDR. $25.19 shipped is a nice price for those features even if it doesn't completely remove HDCP.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VOXLINK-HDMI-2-0-1x2-1X4-Splitter-Full-HD-1080P-2-Port...696836181.html
http://www.voxlink.com.cn/products/voxlink-hdmi-20hdr-1x2-hdmi-splitter-4k60hzhdcp22us-p-5305.html