Another VHS capturing thread

[paqman]

I know there are a bunch of VHS capturing threads out there, and I've been reading through them, but can't seem to find an answer. I forgot this forum was still around! I used to use this forum years ago, and it looks like my username got delete or something lol. Anyway...

So I'm going to try to capture my mom's old VHS tapes onto a hard drive, to give copies to all my siblings. I've got a decent VCR, I've cleaned the head, but don't plan on using any sort of TBC, unless someone here convinces me otherwise I guess. I guess it would be great to get the best quality I can out of these tapes, but really don't want to spend close to $200 on a TBC. So what I've got is a Hauppauge 2250 dual tuner card that I use in my Windows 7 media center on a daily basis, that has an S-video input on it. I have the latest drivers installed for it, and am trying to use VirtualDub to capture the video. It came with a dongle that accepts composite video as well as audio, and combines it to an s-video to plug into the card, so I'm assuming it will capture audio as well. But I can run the audio into my sound card if needed, that's not a big deal.

The problem I'm having is that the video is coming up as just a bunch of green vertical lines in virtualdub. There are a few capture devices available in virtualdub, and it doesn't matter which one I choose, I still just get a screen with some green lines. It seems there is a blue background behind it, which I suppose could be the VHS screen, but I'm playing video, and can hear the audio (if I put the sound through my sound card).

I guess my question is, has anyone used this particular card to capture using the s-video in virtualdub? All the settings in there are a bit intimidating, and I'm wondering if there's a few I need to set in order to get the video to display properly.

Forgive my ignorance. I'm an IT professional, but it's been YEARS since I've done any video capturing. Last time I was capturing VHS tapes, I was using Pinnacle Studio 8 lol.

[hech54]

See if you can see a clean signal with DScaler.

[paqman]

See if you can see a clean signal with DScaler.

Well I'm not sure it's a dirty signal. Wouldn't I be able to see some sort of picture if it were just a dirty signal? It's just a green screen at this point. But I'll give it a shot.

[LMotlow]

Give hech54's suggestion on DScaler a try. It's been known to work where others won't. Maybe VirtualDub doesn't like your Hauppauge.

I guess it would be great to get the best quality I can out of these tapes, but really don't want to spend close to $200 on a TBC.

What you need with that generic VCR is a line-level tbc, not a $200 frame-level job. What's the difference between them and why do you need a line-level tbc? Your first captures will tell you.

[paqman]

Give hech54's suggestion on DScaler a try. It's been known to work where others won't. Maybe VirtualDub doesn't like your Hauppauge.

I guess it would be great to get the best quality I can out of these tapes, but really don't want to spend close to $200 on a TBC.

What you need with that generic VCR is a line-level tbc, not a $200 frame-level job. What's the difference between them and why do you need a line-level tbc? Your first captures will tell you.

Ok I'll do that. And you may be right, it might just not like my Hauppauge card. I'm close to just breaking down and buying a Diamond VC500, but I'll try the DScaler first. What are some examples of a line level tbc? I know my first captures would tell me, but I'm not capturing anything yet lol. And I'd like to know before buying something. I understand the difference between the frame level and line level, but don't know any makes or models of line level TBC's.

[manono]

...but don't know any makes or models of line level TBC's.

You get them in good (very good) VCRs or with some DVD recorders used in pass-through mode.

You might post your VDub settings. For example, at what resolution are you capping? 720x480 for NTSC or 720x576 for PAL?

[paqman]

...but don't know any makes or models of line level TBC's.

You get them in good (very good) VCRs or with some DVD recorders used in pass-through mode.

You might post your VDub settings. For example, at what resolution are you capping? 720x480 for NTSC or 720x576 for PAL?

Ok gotcha. Well at this point I'm not super worried about that, just a thought. I'll look at my settings when I get a moment, and let you know.

Thanks.

[paqman]

Update: When you mentioned VCRs and DVD recorders in pass-through mode it made me think about our old camcorder. It's a Sony TRV22 MiniDV. So I looked it up, and sure enough, it does analog to digital pass-through. Now I'm not sure if it will do any line correction or anything, but that pretty much solves my capturing problem I think. Because now I can just pass the VCR through the camcorder, and out the firewire to the PC.

[manono]

Because now I can just pass the VCR through the camcorder, and out the firewire to the PC.

Yep, that should work. Then you'll capture as DV AVI, I think. You might want to use WinDV to capture and then you'll no longer need to figure out how to work VDub.

Now I'm not sure if it will do any line correction or anything

Me neither, although I think it does have a line TBC. Others will know more about that than I.

[paqman]

Because now I can just pass the VCR through the camcorder, and out the firewire to the PC.

Yep, that should work. Then you'll capture as DV AVI, I think. You might want to use WinDV to capture and then you'll no longer need to figure out how to work VDub.

Now I'm not sure if it will do any line correction or anything

Me neither, although I think it does have a line TBC. Others will know more about that than I.

Cool. Yep used WinDV a bit ago and got successful captures that look pretty decent. I need to compare it to when I was just watching it on TV, but pretty sure the squiggles were significantly reduced.

[LMotlow]

Hm. VHS to DV? No line tbc? Lossy encoding, sloppy interlacing, noisy edges, mosquito noise, line wiggles, 50% chroma loss, PC-only playback. Guess you still have some work ahead. Others can help.

[paqman]

Lol I'm not sure of 40% of what you just said, but it looks pretty good to me and I'm just ripping it to AVI for posterity's sake to put on hard drives for my siblings. Don't need to to play on anything but pc for now. Once it's in digital format I can burn them to DVD anytime I want. How would you recommend do it? How would I do it lossless?

[Cornucopia]

"Sloppy interlacing"?? WTH is that? VHS=interlaced, DV=interlaced. It's a straight transfer, with interlacing retained as-is.

Chroma loss is mathematically true, but since VHS content only has ~40x480 chroma res, using DV's 4:1:1 = 176x480 chroma res should certainly capture all the color possible.

Noisy edge/mosquitos will happen with ANY DCT-compressed format, not just DV, but that really only happens with bit-starving (which DV usually isn't).

Your other caveats are valid, though.

Me, I would stick a TBC (line+FF, if poss.) into any/every VHS workflow chain.

Scott

[jagabo]

A lot of DV camcorders had a line TBC on their composite input.

[LMotlow]

Lol I'm not sure of 40% of what you just said, but it looks pretty good to me and I'm just ripping it to AVI for posterity's sake to put on hard drives for my siblings. Don't need to to play on anything but pc for now. Once it's in digital format I can burn them to DVD anytime I want. How would you recommend do it? How would I do it lossless?

Uh, well...you can't make "DVD" from "DV". You can burn your DV-AVI caps as "data" to CD discs, DVD discs, BluRay discs, copy them to USB sticks, usb drives, etc., etc. They're still PC-playback. Only.

Did you say "ripping " it to AVI? I don't recall anyone describing a rip operation. https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?R#Rip

Oh, well, if you think noisy analog capped to DV-AVI looks "good" to you as is, the other 40% would make no difference, nor would lossless capture promise much.......Everybody has their druthers. Which pretty much leaves this thread with no place else to go. On to the next tape.

[jagabo]

The OP can see for himself the difference between DV and uncompressed VHS capture here:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/360804-DV-vs-lossless-capture-of-VHS

Most of the samples posted in that thread are PAL so they don't show the 4:1:1 chroma loss of NTSC DV. But as Cornucopia pointed out, the chroma resolution of VHS is so low that loss is pretty meaningless.

A bigger issue is that with DV camcorder passthrough you don't have any control over levels. If the camcorder blows out brights or crushes blacks there's nothing you can do.

[manono]

How would you recommend do it?

If you want DVDs playable in DVD players, then AvsToDVD might suit you.

How would I do it lossless?

You don't. Again, if you want a DVD playable in a DVD player, it has to be reencoded and converted in the process.

[paqman]

Lol I'm not sure of 40% of what you just said, but it looks pretty good to me and I'm just ripping it to AVI for posterity's sake to put on hard drives for my siblings. Don't need to to play on anything but pc for now. Once it's in digital format I can burn them to DVD anytime I want. How would you recommend do it? How would I do it lossless?

Uh, well...you can't make "DVD" from "DV". You can burn your DV-AVI caps as "data" to CD discs, DVD discs, BluRay discs, copy them to USB sticks, usb drives, etc., etc. They're still PC-playback. Only.

Did you say "ripping " it to AVI? I don't recall anyone describing a rip operation. https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?R#Rip

Oh, well, if you think noisy analog capped to DV-AVI looks "good" to you as is, the other 40% would make no difference, nor would lossless capture promise much.......Everybody has their druthers. Which pretty much leaves this thread with no place else to go. On to the next tape.

Uh, well... yes I can. At least the avi files that I captured from my VHS through my camcorder today I can. ConvertXtoDVD does a fantastic job of that. I just tested it. Authored a DVD with ConverXToDVD with the first capture I made today, and it will play in any standard DVD player. Plus I think you're missing the point of my project. I'm not digitizing these videos to be able to watch on TV. I'm doing it to keep them forever, and keep them from degrading further than the VHS's already have. Obviously I'm no pro at this, but I'm the most tech-able body in my family, so the job is stuck on me. You obviously only settle for the best. I'm settling for what I can do for zero money with what I have at my disposal. And it looks "good enough" to me.

And yes I said "ripping". Yes I know that's not what I'm doing. I just typed the first word that came to my mind. I realize that my camcorder is the one "capturing" the video from my VHS, and the firewire, is actually "copying" the "captured" data. Lighten up.

[paqman]

How would you recommend do it?

If you want DVDs playable in DVD players, then AvsToDVD might suit you.

How would I do it lossless?

You don't. Again, if you want a DVD playable in a DVD player, it has to be reencoded and converted in the process.

Yeah I'm not asking anyone how to burn DVD's. I've got great software that I've been using for years that does a great job of that. Thanks though, I'll have to check AvsToDVD out some time. Really this post was just to see if anyone knew how to get the hauppauge S-Video to work with VirtualDub. But since I've found that my camcorder will do analog to digital passthrough, I'm throwing that method out anyway. Thanks everyone for your input, the TBC stuff was new to me, and I'm going to compare videos after I've done some capturing. I think the DV method is going to work great for my puposes.