VHS to Digital - What am I missing.

[Icculus]

I am poking around this site and elsewhere trying to figure out how to get started, but I feel like I am missing something. I am finding a lot about software and it sounds like I need to rely on "HuffyUV" or "VirtualDub" to accomplish what I am trying to do. But what do I need in the way of hardware?

I have an old DVD/VCR combo unit with S-Video and RCA output. I am looking at products on amazon that convert S-Video or RCA to USB. If I were to purchase one of those and just plug my VCR into my PC USB port would HuffyUV or VirtualDub recognize the input and be able to capture whatever I play through it?

Sorry if I just missed the right place to find this information, but I did my best to look around to find it and all that came up from searches was info about software.

Thanks!

[Cornucopia]

You need:

• A VHS tape - CHECK
• A VCR (combo will do, but usually not as good) - CHECK (hopefully it's ok)
• S-video cable for video & 2 RCA cables for audio - CHECK, or easy to get
• Capture card/device that accepts S-video (video) + 2x RCA (audio) and doesn't force capturing to a proprietary format - NEED
• (USB?) Cabling between the card/device and the PC - NEED, if necessary, but likely comes with the card/device
• OS-compatible Drivers for said card/device - NEED (should come with the card/device)
• A capturing application* that works with above card/device & drivers - NEED (could come with card/device, or 3rd party, incl. poss. Virtualdub)
• A compression algorithm to use (codec) and container/filetype/format to save to - NEED (HuffYUV is a poss. codec, as are other lossless ones good choices. Vdub only saves captures to AVI container/format, but there are other capture apps that may use other containers/formats)

We cannot give you particulars about Vdub support without knowing the specific card/device in question, as it depends greatly on which multimedia architecture is being utilized during the capture. Virtualdub really only fully supports VFW for capturing (though possibly DirectShow, but it has been known to be buggy and not as fully supported). And again, it only saves to AVI (it can call an external application to export a file, but I don't expect it to be able to do that during a capture), so no MOV, MKV, MXF (other common MM containers that accept a variety of codecs).

Scott

*Or a capturing module in an NLE

[Icculus]

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Do you have any recommendations for good Video Capture Cards? I don't have a desktop machine, so the internal boards are pretty useless to me. Some of the external adapters look like a workable option, but I can't tell what ones are good based on the mixed reviews. Some claims are that the software included simply does not work and is no longer supported by the manufacturers because it is antiquated. I'm also trying to avoid some of the higher priced options as well. Would the Diamond VC500 or TOTMC USB 2.0 be good options?

I am familiar with CODECs somewhat. What are the implications of deciding what CODEC compression to use and what are some of the better options?

Thanks so much for your help.

[manono]

Would the Diamond VC500 or TOTMC USB 2.0 be good options?

The Diamond USB device is regularly mentioned favorably around here. Offhand, I don't know the other one.
All these capture devices/cards come with software to enable the capture. It usually requires you to cap in MPEG-2. If all you want is quick and easy, it might be enough. They also usually include software to make DVDs from your capture.

However, if you intend to do any editing or 'restoration' work, then MPEG-2 is less than ideal (unless you're allowed to cap using a very high bitrate, and even then...), which is where VDub and a lossless codec comes in. Cornucopia mentioned HuffYUV, a well known lossless AVI codec.

[Icculus]

Cool. Diamond VC500 ordered and I will come back and update this thread with how things go.

[Icculus]

So that was fast on Amazon's part. I opted for the "No Rush" option and boom, here in two days.. The Diamond VC500 is super straightforward and easy to use. So I am now able to save my videos as AVI files, but they are ENORMOUS. Roughly 70GB per hour of tape. So I am guessing the compression applications will take care of that and get them more manageable. Should I just find a copy of HuffYUV and try to make it work or are there better programs out there at this point?

[manono]

So I am now able to save my videos as AVI files, but they are ENORMOUS. Roughly 70GB per hour of tape.

You're most likely saving as uncompressed RGB. What you want is a lossless but compressed option and HuffYUV is one. I've had the most luck with the version 2.1.1. Your file sizes will still be large but maybe half (?) what they are now.

[Icculus]

So I am a little bit confused here.. I downloaded HuffYUV and followed the instructions in the readme to install... But it is not an executable? The "screenshot" shows a basic UI, is that some other program and HuffYUV is just an add-on?

[LMotlow]

huffyuv isn't a program, it's a compressor. You should be capturing with VirtualDub to lossless huffyuv in a YUY2 colorspace. If you're using VDub capture or some other software, set your output cvolorspace to YUY2, set your compressor to huffyuv, set your output frame to 720x480. You shouldn't get more than 30GB/hour or so on output. huffyuv.dll is in your Windows System folder, and it's not an "exe" file. To use any compressor or codec such as huffyuv, Lagarith, etc., you must set your capture or edit program's desired output to use that compression.

[manono]

So I am a little bit confused here.. I downloaded HuffYUV and followed the instructions in the readme to install... But it is not an executable? The "screenshot" shows a basic UI, is that some other program and HuffYUV is just an add-on?

Once installed it should show up in VDub under Video->Compression. You should be able to select and configure it.

Or, when using VDub to capture go File->Capture AVI->Video->Compression.

If you're using something else to capture (you didn't say), maybe (or maybe not) it'll show up as an available compressor.

[Icculus]

Ahh.. I see. Thank you both! I was using the EZGrabber program that came with the Diamond VC500. I will check out Vdub

[Icculus]

The EZ Grabber stock program didn't add anything to it's output options, so I installed VDub. It looks like I am all good to go, but under Video->Compression nothing associated with HuffYUV appears. I went an manually verified that the HuffYUV.dll is in my System 32 folder and I have done a restart, but it still does not appear. I see 5 Microsoft options, 2 Intel options, and a Cinepak option. Any ideas?

[Cornucopia]

If HuffYUV doesn't work, try installing Lagarith, UTvideo, or MagicYUV instead.

Scott

[LMotlow]

@Icculus, you have no PC or operating system details in your profile, so you're making it tough for people to help you with installing dll's and other software. Sometimes win7/Win8 can't see some versions of codecs like huffyuv (it's part of Bill's Product Improvement Program, to make things easier for all users, LOL!). Use Lagarith. You'll likely end up using Lagarith sooner or later anyway. You can use UT Video codec if you want, but many Windows players can't decode it.

[Cornucopia]

I've found the reverse is true with editors: Lags may be able to import, but often cannot pass-through/export (or vice-versa), yet UTVideo or MagicYUV can.*

Remember, the OP is capping, and then editing, so the lossless isn't likely to be PLAYED - rather Converted.

Scott

*ffmpeg-related apps excepted.

[manono]

Did you get v 2.1.1 as I suggested? Did you install it? If nothing shows up in VDub, then the chances are you didn't. Did you right-click on the INF file to install it? From the included readme:

To install Huffyuv, right click on huffyuv.inf and select "Install."

[Icculus]

I did exactly that. I am on Win7 so maybe that is the problem.
I'll try Lagarith next.

[Icculus]

Lagarith did the trick. Still way bigger than I would like. How is it that full length films can be compressed to around 0.75 GB and still have great quality?

[LMotlow]

That's the nature of lossy compression. And one of many reasons why lossy encoded video isn't designed or recommended for extensive edits or correction. Lossless AVI is a video of all the complete, full-size, decoded images in the video. Lossy video doesn't have complete images; images are arranged in Groups of Frames (GOP). The only complete image in a GOP is the I frame, or index frame. Some codecs include two or more I frames in a larger GOP. The other images in the GOP contain only data that describes the changes in the image since the last I-frame. In addition to not keeping all the complete images, bitrate and other compression algorithms set the amount of data that lossy compression will discard as being unimportant. Lower bitrate, smaller file size, more data down the toilet, less precision and motion handling, crappy image. Higher bitrate = less data loss, more precision, higher quality, bigger file.

[Cornucopia]

And it's down to throwing out what's "not noticeable" and leaving only what's "acceptable" to most. This can often vary a great deal.
One man's trash, and all that.

Scott

[theewizard]

i did some vhs tapes about 10yrs ago
used a win2000 machine and capture hardware from AVS tech
it hardware encoded on the fly to mpeg-2
made recording easy and DVD creation easy
its gone now because i could not get update drivers for the hardware, but i was happy with it
i consider it a good brand of hardware

[manono]

Still way bigger than I would like.

Did you configure Lagarith for YUY2 or YV12? RGB is the default and that'll give you quite a bit larger files than necessary, since DVDs are YV12.