BPP(PLANAR)What does it mean in video compression?bit/pixel? or what?HELP!!

[Stears555]

Hello!

I would like to transform my AVCHD MTS camcoder files to lossless FFV1 or Huffyuv MKV file, without the loss of any information of the original video. I know that AVCHD is a 8 bit/color channel video in 4:2:0 colorspace.
But what does BPP (planar) means? Does it mean bit/pixel? Does 8bit video means 8bit X 3color channel = 24bit? The Xmedia recode report cannon AVCHD camcorder files as 12bpp, and my friend's Panasonic camcorder file 12BPP too. Does it mean that AVCHD camcorders don't produce 8bit X 3 ch. = 24 bit color videos?

Screen capture of Xmedia recode about the dilemma : http://dictaphone.atw.hu/problem.png

My test AVCHD file is here: http://dictaphone.atw.hu/00001.MTS (It is only 67 megabyte)
I transformed it with Xmedia recode software, my output file is MKV, the compressor is FFV1.
The huffyuv codec have similar bpp planar options.

Does the AVCHD files have planars bpp options too?
Which is the most compressed option of FFV1 which is really lossless for an AVCHD file?


Thank you for your reply!

[Stears555]

Are you here?

[jagabo]

Yes, bpp means bits per pixel. "8 bit" is per channel.

"12 bits" comes about because most high compression video codecs work in YV12 (aka 4:2:0 chroma subsampling) a planar system where the Y (greyscale picture) channel is encoded at the full resolution but the chroma (U and V, the color information) is encoded at half (each dimension) resolution. So, on average, there are 12 bits per pixel rather than 24 bits per pixel.

So a 1920x1080 YV12 video has a 1920x1080 Y channel, but only 960x540 U and V channels. The theory is that your eyes can resolve more brightness resolution than color resolution (and in fact your eyes have fewer color receptors than greyscale receptors), so it doesn't hurt to have colors encoded at lower resolution.

Chroma subsampling: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/294144-Viewing-tests-and-sample-files?p=1792760&vie...=1#post1792760

[Baldrick]

Wait some DAYS before you bump/reply to your thread.

Why do you need to convert to mkv with a lossless codec?

[Stears555]

Wait some DAYS before you bump/reply to your thread.

Why do you need to convert to mkv with a lossless codec?

Because Youtube don't handle perfectly the progressive segmented frame, which is the format of my camcorder.

Further informations and two short test videos about the problem: http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/youtube/TCtyuf2PYWk/nvs9Hr2SYcMJ Thank You for your reply! God Bye!

[aedipuss]

you need convert the psf to normal progressive. treat it like it's interlaced and de-interlace it. make sure to use the correct bff or tff.

[Stears555]

Yes, bpp means bits per pixel. "8 bit" is per channel.

"12 bits" comes about because most high compression video codecs work in YV12 (aka 4:2:0 chroma subsampling) a planar system where the Y (greyscale picture) channel is encoded at the full resolution but the chroma (U and V, the color information) is encoded at half (each dimension) resolution. So, on average, there are 12 bits per pixel rather than 24 bits per pixel.

So a 1920x1080 YV12 video has a 1920x1080 Y channel, but only 960x540 U and V channels. The theory is that your eyes can resolve more brightness resolution than color resolution (and in fact your eyes have fewer color receptors than greyscale receptors), so it doesn't hurt to have colors encoded at lower resolution.

Chroma subsampling: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/294144-Viewing-tests-and-sample-files?p=1792760&vie...=1#post1792760

Do you think that a transformation of the MTS file into FFV1 12Bpp worsen the color quality? Forexample: Will it worsen the quality of the grayscale Y channel resolution which is real 8bit channel? Higher bpp can solve that problem?

[Stears555]

you need convert the psf to normal progressive. treat it like it's interlaced and de-interlace it. make sure to use the correct bff or tff.

Hello!
PSF (progressive segmented frame is a progressive in interlaced format. Deinterlace worsen the quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_segmented_frame

[poisondeathray]

Do you think that a transformation of the MTS file into FFV1 12Bpp worsen the color quality? Forexample: Will it worsen the quality of the grayscale Y channel resolution which is real 8bit channel? Higher bpp can solve that problem?

No. FFV1 is lossless. You can get better than that

Youtube can even deinterlace native progressive camcorder video (not flagged interlaced, not encoded interlaced, not PsF) .

[Stears555]

Do you think that a transformation of the MTS file into FFV1 12Bpp worsen the color quality? Forexample: Will it worsen the quality of the grayscale Y channel resolution which is real 8bit channel? Higher bpp can solve that problem?

No. FFV1 is lossless. You can get better than that

Youtube can even deinterlace native progressive camcorder video (not flagged interlaced, not encoded interlaced, not PsF) .

Ok, but which planar of ffv1 option is the best to avoid the loss of color inforation ? 12BPP? 20bpp? 24bpp?

[poisondeathray]

Any deviation from the original will cause you to incur quality loss

Upsampling chroma technically lowers the quality (although you wont' see the difference, if you check with SSIM, PSNR or difference scripts there will be quality loss)

If you upsample the CbCr to 1920x1080 , so Y, Cb, Cr are all 1920x1080 this is 4:4:4 or 24bpp (still 8bit video) . Because you are resizing the chroma planes, this is deviation from the original, thus "quality loss" , even if you use a lossless codec

It's "8 bit" video because values are expressed from 0-255 (256 values 2^8) . Ie. Y' , Cb, Cr can range from 0-255

[poisondeathray]

Just use another sharing site until youtube addresses the problem

If you re-wrap into flv, you can share the original file on blip.tv (youtube not only deinterlaces sometimes, but re-encodes with low bitrate. Even if it didn't deinterlace , quality will be much lower on youtube) . But streaming 24Mb/s isn't fun for most people, that's why people re-encode at lower bitrates to make video more "streaming friendly"

[Stears555]

Just use another sharing site until youtube addresses the problem

If you re-wrap into flv, you can share the original file on blip.tv (youtube not only deinterlaces sometimes, but re-encodes with low bitrate. Even if it didn't deinterlace , quality will be much lower on youtube) . But streaming 24Mb/s isn't fun for most people, that's why people re-encode at lower bitrates to make video more "streaming friendly"

Blip andother video sharing sites don't know the full HD.
Ok, but the options of youtube player are the most advanced in the web. You can choose resolution quality on the youtube flash-based player. Can you name a flash based web-video player, where the resolution change buttons are exist? Than I can use it on my homepage. Thank you!

[jagabo]

Do you think that a transformation of the MTS file into FFV1 12Bpp worsen the color quality?

Your source video is already 12 bits per pixel -- YUV 4:2:0. Leave it that way.

[poisondeathray]

Blip andother video sharing sites don't know the full HD.

What do you mean by that ? If you upload 1080p, you can stream 1080p

Ok, but the options of youtube player are the most advanced in the web. You can choose resolution quality on the youtube flash-based player. Can you name a flash based web-video player, where the resolution change buttons are exist? Than I can use it on my homepage. Thank you!

None that I know of that are free . Some are subscription or licence fee based, with bandwidth extra $

[Stears555]

Blip andother video sharing sites don't know the full HD.

What do you mean by that ? If you upload 1080p, you can stream 1080p

Ok, but the options of youtube player are the most advanced in the web. You can choose resolution quality on the youtube flash-based player. Can you name a flash based web-video player, where the resolution change buttons are exist? Than I can use it on my homepage. Thank you!

None that I know of that are free . Some are subscription or licence fee based, with bandwidth extra $

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_hosting_services

According to wikipedia, Youtube is the only video host service, which stream 1080p resolution. Is the list outdated?

[poisondeathray]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_hosting_services

According to wikipedia, Youtube is the only video host service, which stream 1080p resolution. Is the list outdated?

Outdated. eg. vimeo, blip both stream 1080p

vimeo requires you to buy a pro account (otherwise it's very limited, like 1 upload per week for the "free" account for HD videos)

blip is unlimited. The trick is it to re-wrap into flv , and it doesn't re-encode . Still works, just tested . It streams whatever you uploaded, at least on the blip site. Not sure about embedding options

[Stears555]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_hosting_services

According to wikipedia, Youtube is the only video host service, which stream 1080p resolution. Is the list outdated?

Outdated. eg. vimeo, blip both stream 1080p

vimeo requires you to buy a pro account (otherwise it's very limited, like 1 upload per week for the "free" account for HD videos)

blip is unlimited. The trick is it to re-wrap into flv , and it doesn't re-encode . Still works, just tested . It streams whatever you uploaded, at least on the blip site. Not sure about embedding options

Howvever the blip.tv is not unlimited. It's error message: "Your video should showcase the essence of your series. Show us the quality of your work! Also, it shouldn’t be too big. You’ve got 400 MB (megabytes) to work with."

[poisondeathray]

The limit is 1.4GB per video for blip (for the free account)

[Stears555]

Other error message: "The file "159.flv" is not a format that we accept. Try something like a mov, wmv, flv, m4v, mpg, mp4, avi, mpeg, xvid, ogv, or divx."




Format : Flash Video
File size : 22.6 MiB
Duration : 2s 628ms
Overall bit rate : 72.3 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2012-10-29 13:51:05
Writing application : Lavf54.32.100

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
Format settings, GOP : N=2
Codec ID : 7
Duration : 933ms
Bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 15.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.257
Stream size : 911 KiB (4%)
Writing library : x264 core 128 r2216
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=2 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=1 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=0 / open_gop=1 / weightp=0 / keyint=2 / keyint_min=2 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=2 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=8000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=8000 / vbv_bufsize=1500 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=2:1.00

Audio
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Codec ID : 2
Codec ID/Hint : MP3
Duration : 2s 628ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 42ms
Stream size : 30.8 KiB (0%)
Writing library : LAME3.99.5ŞŞŞŞŞŞŞŞŞŞ

[poisondeathray]

Other error message: "The file "159.flv" is not a format that we accept. Try something like a mov, wmv, flv, m4v, mpg, mp4, avi, mpeg, xvid, ogv, or divx."

FLV is an allowed format . See FLV is listed in your quote. You did something wrong.

You re-encoded the video to 8Mbps, 15fps as well - was that intentional ?

RE-wrapping to FLV allows you to bypass re-encoding by blip (it can host and stream original file)

Or even if you re-encode, it doesn't re-encode again (unlike youtube)