RE: custom-build advice needed

[Senex]

I'm doing a custom-build having at least two dedicated mobile-rack type hard disc drives; HDD #1 for XP Pro; HDD#2 for trial of various legacy Linux distro releases (those having kernel 2.6.29 or prior). If you require further info, ask, and I'll provide,

Some of the main uses of this build will be:
1. Need to do high quality 'screencaps' of movies/TV shows off the internet, and from DVDs or videocassettes...turning them into movie-stills.
2. Change videocassettes to DVDs.
3. Convert PAL & SECAM videocassettes or DVDs to NTSC format DVDs.
Been told different things on different forums, so count me confused! Do I need TV Tuner card? DVR? Something else?

[DB83]

From your intended uses, you would not need a TV Tuner. But you would need a Video Capture Device. And since many of these come with a TV tuner there is nothing lost should your intentions change down the line.

PAL and SECAM VHS !!!! What vcr are you using for that ?

[usually_quiet]

If you plan to use Linux for capture, your choices for capture devices will be limited to those with Linux drivers, which narrows the field considerably.

[jman98]

Just FYI stuff...
SECAM only exists for VHS tapes. DVDs are either PAL or NTSC and that's it. In terms of converting to NTSC DVD, my rule is that if you have to do this more than twice that you are really better off buying a converting DVD player (Philips still makes some for the US and Canadian markets) and getting on with your life than doing conversions. I suppose if you are doing these conversions for people other than yourself that this might be impractical but if you're just making the DVDs for your own use, please do consider just making PAL and SECAM VHS tapes into PAL DVDs.

I do need to warn you that many capture devices sold in the USA are incapable of capturing PAL and SECAM signals. I'm sorry but as I have never done PAL or SECAM VHS captures I cannot recommend anything to you that definitely supports it, but perhaps others can. Please be absolutely sure that what you buy can capture PAL and SECAM.

Finally, as usually_quiet points out, realistically you will need to do this work on the XP side.

You might want to consider just running Linux as a virtual machine under VMware (there are free versions) or something similar. I think dual booting is a waste of time and VMs are the way to go, but it's your box and your decision to make.

[Nelson37]

Why are you using the mobile-rack type HD mounts? I want to emphatically state that I have used a number of these devices over a period of many years, and would NOT recommend such a mount for multiple removals and insertions. Roughly half a dozen premature hard drive failures and/or problems directly traced to the removable mount. The quality of the interface connection seems to degrade over time and usage, not years and hundreds of insertions but months and a few dozen.

[Hoser Rob]

Just curious ... why don't you want newer linux generic kernel modules?

[usually_quiet]

I'm doing a custom-build having at least two dedicated mobile-rack type hard disc drives; HDD #1 for XP Pro; HDD#2 for trial of various legacy Linux distro releases (those having kernel 2.6.29 or prior). If you require further info, ask, and I'll provide,

Some of the main uses of this build will be:
1. Need to do high quality 'screencaps' of movies/TV shows off the internet, and from DVDs or videocassettes...turning them into movie-stills.
2. Change videocassettes to DVDs.
3. Convert PAL & SECAM videocassettes or DVDs to NTSC format DVDs.
Been told different things on different forums, so count me confused! Do I need TV Tuner card? DVR? Something else?

VHS capture only requires a standard definition capture device. If you want to process the captured video to correct various defects, then you need a device that can capture using lossless compression. For Windows XP, there are quite a few devices to choose from that use software encoding and can perform lossless compression. Most have a USB 2.0 interface.

The ATI/Diamond TV Wonder HD 600 USB is a favorite of VideoHelp members who capture VHS. I have one and I took a look at the drivers. The Video Decoder tab on the device's WDM Streaming Capture Filter lists NTSC M, NTSC MJ, NTSC 433, PAL B, PAL D, PAL G, PAL H, PAL I, PAL M, PAL N, PAL 60, SECAM B, SECAM D, SECAM G, SECAM H, SECAM K, SECAM K1, SECAM L and SECAM L1 as supported TV systems. I can't tell you if all of these settings work, since I have no way to capture anything but NTSC M. The bad news is it is discontinued, but it still turns up on ebay.

These are also supposed to capture SECAM video

StarTech SVID2USB2 USB 2.0 Video Capture Cable http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-SVID2USB2-S-Video-Composite-Capture/dp/B000O5RIWO

This one comes with a SCART adapter if you have a European model VHS deck.
TerraTec G1 USB http://www.adorama.com/TT10680.html


I'm not sure what you mean by "screencaps". If you want to take snapshots from video files, most software video players can do that.

[Senex]

From your intended uses, you would not need a TV Tuner. But you would need a Video Capture Device. And since many of these come with a TV tuner there is nothing lost should your intentions change down the line.

PAL and SECAM VHS !!!! What vcr are you using for that ?

Thanks for your reply. Know of any specific "Video Capture Device" that works with both XP Pro and Linux?

Hitachi VT-M4080E Multisystem VCR for now, but its going to the junkyard as soon as I track down the 'good stuff"!

[Senex]

I'm doing a custom-build having at least two dedicated mobile-rack type hard disc drives; HDD #1 for XP Pro; HDD#2 for trial of various legacy Linux distro releases (those having kernel 2.6.29 or prior). If you require further info, ask, and I'll provide,

Some of the main uses of this build will be:
1. Need to do high quality 'screencaps' of movies/TV shows off the internet, and from DVDs or videocassettes...turning them into movie-stills.
2. Change videocassettes to DVDs.
3. Convert PAL & SECAM videocassettes or DVDs to NTSC format DVDs.
Been told different things on different forums, so count me confused! Do I need TV Tuner card? DVR? Something else?

VHS capture only requires a standard definition capture device. If you want to process the captured video to correct various defects, then you need a device that can capture using lossless compression. For Windows XP, there are quite a few devices to choose from that use software encoding and can perform lossless compression. Most have a USB 2.0 interface.

The ATI/Diamond TV Wonder HD 600 USB is a favorite of VideoHelp members who capture VHS. I have one and I took a look at the drivers. The Video Decoder tab on the device's WDM Streaming Capture Filter lists NTSC M, NTSC MJ, NTSC 433, PAL B, PAL D, PAL G, PAL H, PAL I, PAL M, PAL N, PAL 60, SECAM B, SECAM D, SECAM G, SECAM H, SECAM K, SECAM K1, SECAM L and SECAM L1 as supported TV systems. I can't tell you if all of these settings work, since I have no way to capture anything but NTSC M. The bad news is it is discontinued, but it still turns up on ebay.

These are also supposed to capture SECAM video

StarTech SVID2USB2 USB 2.0 Video Capture Cable http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-SVID2USB2-S-Video-Composite-Capture/dp/B000O5RIWO

This one comes with a SCART adapter if you have a European model VHS deck.
TerraTec G1 USB http://www.adorama.com/TT10680.html


I'm not sure what you mean by "screencaps". If you want to take snapshots from video files, most software video players can do that.

Many thanks for the great info... in process of researching it all now. Screencaps example:
http://screenmusings.org/Thor/
probably from DVD, considering the quality. There are lots of such sites, and I want one when I 'grow up'!

[usually_quiet]

From your intended uses, you would not need a TV Tuner. But you would need a Video Capture Device. And since many of these come with a TV tuner there is nothing lost should your intentions change down the line.

PAL and SECAM VHS !!!! What vcr are you using for that ?

Thanks for your reply. Know of any specific "Video Capture Device" that works with both XP Pro and Linux?

Hitachi VT-M4080E Multisystem VCR for now, but its going to the junkyard as soon as I track down the 'good stuff"!

Relatively few capture devices have Linux drivers available, let alone Linux drivers available from the manufacturer.

You will have to do research to find out whether third party drivers may exist for devices that interest you.

Sometimes you can find out if Linux support exists based on the chips the device contains. For example, there are third-party Linux drivers for the AMD ATI TV Wonder HD 600 and a number of other USB TV tuners based on the Em28xx chips. http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Em28xx_devices

Hapuppauge's website may tell you if third-party Linux drivers exist for a particular device. For example, according to Hauppauge, third party Linux drivers exist for the following discontinued models WinTV-PVR-150, WinTV-PVR-250, WinTV-PVR-350 and WinTV-PVR-500, which all do MPEG-2 encoding using hardware. Supposedly Linux support for the WinTV-HVR-1600 which does hardware MPEG-2 encoding, was to be added with the kernel 2.6.26 release. I don't know how good the drivers are, or how many other devices from Hauppauge have third-party Linux support.

There are Linux and Windows XP drivers and software available from Blackmagic for their Intensity Pro, but from what I remember others saying about it, capturing videotapes with that device is difficult. Like most other HD capture devices it's intolerant of the erratic signal produced by VHS sources.

[usually_quiet]

I'm doing a custom-build having at least two dedicated mobile-rack type hard disc drives; HDD #1 for XP Pro; HDD#2 for trial of various legacy Linux distro releases (those having kernel 2.6.29 or prior). If you require further info, ask, and I'll provide,

Some of the main uses of this build will be:
1. Need to do high quality 'screencaps' of movies/TV shows off the internet, and from DVDs or videocassettes...turning them into movie-stills.
2. Change videocassettes to DVDs.
3. Convert PAL & SECAM videocassettes or DVDs to NTSC format DVDs.
Been told different things on different forums, so count me confused! Do I need TV Tuner card? DVR? Something else?

VHS capture only requires a standard definition capture device. If you want to process the captured video to correct various defects, then you need a device that can capture using lossless compression. For Windows XP, there are quite a few devices to choose from that use software encoding and can perform lossless compression. Most have a USB 2.0 interface.

The ATI/Diamond TV Wonder HD 600 USB is a favorite of VideoHelp members who capture VHS. I have one and I took a look at the drivers. The Video Decoder tab on the device's WDM Streaming Capture Filter lists NTSC M, NTSC MJ, NTSC 433, PAL B, PAL D, PAL G, PAL H, PAL I, PAL M, PAL N, PAL 60, SECAM B, SECAM D, SECAM G, SECAM H, SECAM K, SECAM K1, SECAM L and SECAM L1 as supported TV systems. I can't tell you if all of these settings work, since I have no way to capture anything but NTSC M. The bad news is it is discontinued, but it still turns up on ebay.

These are also supposed to capture SECAM video

StarTech SVID2USB2 USB 2.0 Video Capture Cable http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-SVID2USB2-S-Video-Composite-Capture/dp/B000O5RIWO

This one comes with a SCART adapter if you have a European model VHS deck.
TerraTec G1 USB http://www.adorama.com/TT10680.html


I'm not sure what you mean by "screencaps". If you want to take snapshots from video files, most software video players can do that.

Many thanks for the great info... in process of researching it all now. Screencaps example:
http://screenmusings.org/Thor/
probably from DVD, considering the quality. There are lots of such sites, and I want one when I 'grow up'!

VLC and Media Player Classic Home Cinema can produce snapshots at the video's full resolution. Maybe other software players can as well. You will have to try various media players for Windows and Linux to find out what you like.

[Senex]

If you plan to use Linux for capture, your choices for capture devices will be limited to those with Linux drivers, which narrows the field considerably.

So any idea of brands/model numbers of capture devices with the necessary linux drivers?

After reading the replies here, I think I need to revise my goals a bit:
1. First priority will be to convert all PAL & SECAM videocassettes to NTSC, and convert all videocassettes to DVD.
2. Secondly to convert all Region 2 DVDs to either Region 1 or Region 0 DVDs.
3. Lastly, to then do the high-quality screencaps from my DVD collection (or from movies/TV shows off the internet).
From what you wrote, I assume eliminating videocassettes, PAL, & SECAM will make the screencapping a bit easier?

The ATI/Diamond TV Wonder would likely not be compatible with Nvidia graphics card. As this will be an AMD build, I'd like to use ATI/Radeon, but the Linux reviews stink! While XP Pro seems able to use anything, Linux looks to require Nvidia, unless one is willing to settle for average to gawd-awful results.

[Senex]

Just curious ... why don't you want newer linux generic kernel modules?

For me the 'dealbreaker' was when IntelTXT ported into kernel 2.6.30.

[Senex]

Why are you using the mobile-rack type HD mounts? I want to emphatically state that I have used a number of these devices over a period of many years, and would NOT recommend such a mount for multiple removals and insertions. Roughly half a dozen premature hard drive failures and/or problems directly traced to the removable mount. The quality of the interface connection seems to degrade over time and usage, not years and hundreds of insertions but months and a few dozen.

I'd be very interested to know which brands/model numbers gave you grief, to check them against my procurement list. The specific "hard drive failures and/or problems" might be useful info too.

[jman98]

[QUOTE=Senex;2191740]

After reading the replies here, I think I need to revise my goals a bit:
1. First priority will be to convert all PAL & SECAM videocassettes to NTSC, and convert all videocassettes to DVD.
2. Secondly to convert all Region 2 DVDs to either Region 1 or Region 0 DVDs.
3. Lastly, to then do the high-quality screencaps from my DVD collection (or from movies/TV shows off the internet).
From what you wrote, I assume eliminating videocassettes, PAL, & SECAM will make the screencapping a bit easier?

1. As I said before, doing this more than maybe twice is pure idiocy and you should just buy a converting DVD player, but if you want to play the cheap bastard card and be one of those people who places no value at all on his spare time as long as he doesn't have to spend any more money, then go for it. Just understand that PAL/SECAM -> NTSC conversions may have artifacts.
2. As I said before, you'd be better off just buying a cheap converting DVD player that can be made region free.
3. I don't know that it will make it "easier" to do that. You might be able to get better quality that way, but it's not necessarily "easier" to eliminate that stuff and you specifically asked about "easier" not "better quality".

[Senex]

Just FYI stuff...
SECAM only exists for VHS tapes. DVDs are either PAL or NTSC and that's it. In terms of converting to NTSC DVD, my rule is that if you have to do this more than twice that you are really better off buying a converting DVD player (Philips still makes some for the US and Canadian markets) and getting on with your life than doing conversions. I suppose if you are doing these conversions for people other than yourself that this might be impractical but if you're just making the DVDs for your own use, please do consider just making PAL and SECAM VHS tapes into PAL DVDs.

I do need to warn you that many capture devices sold in the USA are incapable of capturing PAL and SECAM signals. I'm sorry but as I have never done PAL or SECAM VHS captures I cannot recommend anything to you that definitely supports it, but perhaps others can. Please be absolutely sure that what you buy can capture PAL and SECAM.

Finally, as usually_quiet points out, realistically you will need to do this work on the XP side.

You might want to consider just running Linux as a virtual machine under VMware (there are free versions) or something similar. I think dual booting is a waste of time and VMs are the way to go, but it's your box and your decision to make.

True, DVDs are Region 0 through 6...been told there is also Regions 7 & 8 (never seen any though). My Brit & French DVDs are Region 2, Brit videocassettes are PAL, & French vids are SECAM.

I have a regular TV, regular VCR, NTSC/PAL/SECAM VCR, regular DVD player, all-regions DVD player, and regular DVD recorder. In short, I got too much crap, yet need even more crap (either all-format TV or converter, all-format dvd recorder, video stabilizer, maybe TBC, etc.), to do all I need doing. That is , I did until I decided to get home PC, and found out it can do everything all the crap I got (and all I don't have yet) can do. Now my rule is 'less is more'. My money now goes towards a home PC, which will hopefully one day allow me to decrapify!

As said to 'usually_quiet', I'll now plan on converting PAL & SECAM to NTSC, all videocassettes to DVD, and all Region 2 DVDs to Region 1 or 0 DVDs. That should simplify things for video capture....but still need device that will either work for both XP Pro & Linux, or a capture device for each OS. XP Pro will eventually be replaced with Linux, so this is not an option.

I have enough on my plate without fooling with virtual stuff ( them two books on VMWare look as complex as Selinux junk). Dual booting allows me to keep XP pro as security blanket until I'm ready to migrate, plus practice with various Linux distros on dedicated hard discs (to see which can equal or surpass XP Pro). Linux on VMWare would leave me stuck with using XP Pro indefinitely, and dependent on it (if it ever bit the dust it would take down Linux with it). Two operating systems on two hard drives brings safety and reliability via redundancy.

[usually_quiet]

If you plan to use Linux for capture, your choices for capture devices will be limited to those with Linux drivers, which narrows the field considerably.

So any idea of brands/model numbers of capture devices with the necessary linux drivers?

I already gave you quite a bit of information. If you need more than that regarding how to find Linux-friendly capture devices, you are going to need to do your own leg work. I have not used Linux except Ubuntu on a boot CD to diagnose possible hardware vs driver problems on a Windows PC.

The ATI/Diamond TV Wonder would likely not be compatible with Nvidia graphics card. As this will be an AMD build, I'd like to use ATI/Radeon, but the Linux reviews stink! While XP Pro seems able to use anything, Linux looks to require Nvidia, unless one is willing to settle for average to gawd-awful results.

Why do you think a ATI/Diamond TV Wonder HD 600 USB would not work with a NVidia graphics adapter? The two devices are unrelated. Besides, the chips in the ATI/Diamond TV Wonder HD 600 USB are made by EMPIA not ATI.

[Edit]There is more information about it here: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATI/AMD_TV_Wonder_HD_600_USB

I used this page to find information on the ATI TV Wonder 600 HD USB. http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardware_Device_Information

You will quickly find that most of the capture devices listed there are older models, many of which are discontinued.

3. Lastly, to then do the high-quality screencaps from my DVD collection (or from movies/TV shows off the internet).
From what you wrote, I assume eliminating videocassettes, PAL, & SECAM will make the screencapping a bit easier?

You need to have a digitized source of some sort to make a snapshot. It does not matter whether the digitized file is PAL or NTSC or SECAM. As long as the software player can play the file, snapshots should still be possible, assuming the player includes that feature.

[DB83]

Maybe I missed something in this now quite long thread.

Why are you insisting in having Linux AND XP on the same system. All analog capture devices are supported by XP so why try to complicate the issue ?

And, for want of repeating what has already been said, and more than once, the notion of converting PAL and SECAM captures to NTSC is madness.

BTW Allow me to give you another option when it comes to a SECAM source - that is a pure SECAM source. A Canopus ADVC will take a SECAM source and output that to a PAL DV file. Then you do not have to concern yourself with any varaiations between SECAM and PAL. And do yourself a big favour. Forget about NTSC dvds from these. Or better than that. Go ahead and make one and I am certain you will not want to do it again.

[usually_quiet]

BTW Allow me to give you another option when it comes to a SECAM source - that is a pure SECAM source. A Canopus ADVC will take a SECAM source and output that to a PAL DV file. Then you do not have to concern yourself with any varaiations between SECAM and PAL.

I think the Canopus ADVC110 can be used with Kino (plus dvgrab) for capture and editing on a Linux system. The ADVC110 is IEEE-1394 (firewire 400) device and just uses standard IEEE-1394 Linux drivers. Some people prefer using DV for analog capture while others don't care for it, but the ADVC110 is certainly an option for both Linux and Windows XP.

[Senex]

Maybe I missed something in this now quite long thread.

Why are you insisting in having Linux AND XP on the same system. All analog capture devices are supported by XP so why try to complicate the issue ?

And, for want of repeating what has already been said, and more than once, the notion of converting PAL and SECAM captures to NTSC is madness.

BTW Allow me to give you another option when it comes to a SECAM source - that is a pure SECAM source. A Canopus ADVC will take a SECAM source and output that to a PAL DV file. Then you do not have to concern yourself with any varaiations between SECAM and PAL. And do yourself a big favour. Forget about NTSC dvds from these. Or better than that. Go ahead and make one and I am certain you will not want to do it again.

Answered before, but one more time. I am preparing to migrate from XP Pro to Linux (should the need arise), and this build is also geared towards making that switch easy. Been told by too many doomsayers on too many forums that day will come when I will be forced to switch over to Vista or Win7. There are varied scenarios given as to why, but most seem to revolve around either total end of support or some new megavirus. Do I believe these predictions of XP Pro's coming "catastrophic collapse"? No, but I'm big on contingency planning, 100% sure I ain't ever gonna get stuck with Vista/Win7 crud, and Linux is my emergency 'out'. If some can learn to speak a second language, I got no problem teaching myself a second OS...maybe I'll need it, maybe not, but either way it will be ready to go.

I'm looking into converting PAL and SECAM videos to NTSC DVD, and Region 2 DVD into Region 0 or 1 DVD...then comes the capture. I've done this converting before at a copy shop (before it way sold to an uptight owner scared of legalities), and any loss of quality was slight to none....so not sure what you are worried about.

[Senex]

If you plan to use Linux for capture, your choices for capture devices will be limited to those with Linux drivers, which narrows the field considerably.

So any idea of brands/model numbers of capture devices with the necessary linux drivers?

I already gave you quite a bit of information. If you need more than that regarding how to find Linux-friendly capture devices, you are going to need to do your own leg work. I have not used Linux except Ubuntu on a boot CD to diagnose possible hardware vs driver problems on a Windows PC.

The ATI/Diamond TV Wonder would likely not be compatible with Nvidia graphics card. As this will be an AMD build, I'd like to use ATI/Radeon, but the Linux reviews stink! While XP Pro seems able to use anything, Linux looks to require Nvidia, unless one is willing to settle for average to gawd-awful results.

Why do you think a ATI/Diamond TV Wonder HD 600 USB would not work with a NVidia graphics adapter? The two devices are unrelated. Besides, the chips in the ATI/Diamond TV Wonder HD 600 USB are made by EMPIA not ATI.

[Edit]There is more information about it here: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATI/AMD_TV_Wonder_HD_600_USB

I used this page to find information on the ATI TV Wonder 600 HD USB. http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardware_Device_Information

You will quickly find that most of the capture devices listed there are older models, many of which are discontinued.

3. Lastly, to then do the high-quality screencaps from my DVD collection (or from movies/TV shows off the internet).
From what you wrote, I assume eliminating videocassettes, PAL, & SECAM will make the screencapping a bit easier?

You need to have a digitized source of some sort to make a snapshot. It does not matter whether the digitized file is PAL or NTSC or SECAM. As long as the software player can play the file, snapshots should still be possible, assuming the player includes that feature.

Thanks. Will research it further. I've always assumed that Nvidia and ATI/Radeon products did not play well together.

[DB83]

Thanks for the fill in.

I accept that the day will come (maybe sooner than later) when MS discontinue their support for XP. But they changed their minds once on that one and could do again due to the popularity and user-base of it - not everyone upgrades to the next 'big thing' and not everyone can afford to do so. I usually skip one OS so I should be on Win7 (forgetting about Vista) now but stayed on XP simply because it does the job I need it to.

Good luck with the PAL/SECAM to NTSC conversion. Maybe I am not the one to comment on that from this side of the pond since I do not have to worry about such a thing. I have had only one experience of attempting such a conversion and I had bad feedback from the end-user.

[Senex]

Thanks for the fill in.

I accept that the day will come (maybe sooner than later) when MS discontinue their support for XP. But they changed their minds once on that one and could do again due to the popularity and user-base of it - not everyone upgrades to the next 'big thing' and not everyone can afford to do so. I usually skip one OS so I should be on Win7 (forgetting about Vista) now but stayed on XP simply because it does the job I need it to.

Good luck with the PAL/SECAM to NTSC conversion. Maybe I am not the one to comment on that from this side of the pond since I do not have to worry about such a thing. I have had only one experience of attempting such a conversion and I had bad feedback from the end-user.

No problem. As said, I don't believe everything everyone tells me, and this includes the doomsayers that gleefully tell me its only a matter of time before some unknown scenario forces me to change over to crappy Vista or even worse Win7. That said, I'm big on contingency planning, so its in my best interest to learn Linux....just in case the doomsayers are right, and XP Pro is headed for a fall. As for end of XP support, there are many still using Win2000 without much problems, so I'm not that concerned.

Yes, I'm quite aware American movies find their way to your side alot more than foreign movies get to America (and them that do are usually butchered).