How Do All You People Learn All This Stuff About Editing???

[JohnnyGalaga]

Is there a book or a class or something? Everyone on here talks technical lingo like codecs, containers, etc. and I can't understand any of it. How do people on here know all this crap? I don't really see anything online that teaches the ins and outs.

How does an AVERAGE person with a household camcorder get their foot in the door and REALLY learn about editing and all the lingo?

[edDV]

Is there a book or a class or something? Everyone on here talks technical lingo like codecs, containers, etc. and I can't understand any of it. How do people on here know all this crap? I don't really see anything online that teaches the ins and outs.

How does an AVERAGE person with a household camcorder get their foot in the door and REALLY learn about editing and all the lingo?

You start by trying and when you get stuck, ask questions.

If you want detail, you will find many free Google books. Everything you need is on the web if you claim poverty*.

Why do you think 3rd world nations are kicking our rear?


* obviously not your case since your computer is better than any of mine.

[JohnnyGalaga]

Here's an example of what the problem is. You search for "Video Container"and you start reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_format_%28digital%29 . As you're reading, you get to a point where it starts saying stuff like "MP4 (standard audio and video container for the MPEG-4 multimedia portfolio, based on the ISO base media file format defined in MPEG-4 Part 12 and JPEG 2000 Part 12) which in turn was based on the QuickTime file format."

Huh? See the problem here? Nothing explains it for a BEGINNER. Is "MPEG-4" the same thing as the video files that end with a .mp4? Are these better or worse quality than other formats?

Think of it another way. Say you're learning math in school. You start off with basic arithmetic. Then it's, algebra, geometry, and so forth as you work your way up. SO where do you start in learning video stuff?

[dfisher052]

If it's any help...we were all beginners at one time. You learn by trial & error...you learn by doing. Select a project & then keep at it , asking questions as you go till you've learned how to do that project. Then when you want to do something else you do the same thing...ask questions, read everything you can find about it till you've learned how to do it. Hands on beats most any other way to learn. We've all gone through it, but I think most everyone here will tell you, you learn by doing till you've got the hang of it.

[loster]

I recommend going to a library and reading some books. The for dummies series is ok for getting started with video.

[deadrats]

Is there a book or a class or something? Everyone on here talks technical lingo like codecs, containers, etc. and I can't understand any of it. How do people on here know all this crap? I don't really see anything online that teaches the ins and outs.

How does an AVERAGE person with a household camcorder get their foot in the door and REALLY learn about editing and all the lingo?

i learned by osmosis.

[julitomg]

The title of this thread would make an interesting poll

[dragonkeeper]

Is there a book or a class or something? Everyone on here talks technical lingo like codecs, containers, etc. and I can't understand any of it. How do people on here know all this crap? I don't really see anything online that teaches the ins and outs.

How does an AVERAGE person with a household camcorder get their foot in the door and REALLY learn about editing and all the lingo?

My sig explains the method by which i learned, but i still have a long way to go. We have some real gurus here who don't mind sharing their wealth of knowledge.

The title of this thread would make an interesting poll

Now that you mention it, I've become curious about it. I remember when i first started coming to the forum 110% of the conversations were over my head. Now that percentage has gone all the way down to 90% . I'm a quick study. LOL

[chowmein]

Like anything, it's a continual learning process. Decide what it is exactly that you want to achieve, and learn how to do that particular job.

[edDV]

Here's an example of what the problem is. You search for "Video Container"and you start reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_format_%28digital%29 . As you're reading, you get to a point where it starts saying stuff like "MP4 (standard audio and video container for the MPEG-4 multimedia portfolio, based on the ISO base media file format defined in MPEG-4 Part 12 and JPEG 2000 Part 12) which in turn was based on the QuickTime file format."

Huh? See the problem here? Nothing explains it for a BEGINNER. Is "MPEG-4" the same thing as the video files that end with a .mp4? Are these better or worse quality than other formats?

Think of it another way. Say you're learning math in school. You start off with basic arithmetic. Then it's, algebra, geometry, and so forth as you work your way up. SO where do you start in learning video stuff?

You need to get more specific about what you want to do. I can't give you a engineering degree in a post.

First clue. Codecs and containers are separate issues. But many containers limit support for codecs.

[tigerb]

My friend, you've come to the right place to ask the right question.

There are many kind souls here and sometimes these souls know more than the so called "professionals"......just shoot your questions and don't be discouraged by unanswered questions...keep trying and in times, you will learn a lot!

I came from knowing nothing to now using Avidemux (a MUST for me), Avanti, MKVtoolnix, MP4Box, ASfBin, DivFix++, FLV Extract, FLVJoin, mp3DirectCut, rtmpdump and URLSnooper , and I'm still learning.

[budwzr]

Apple is the one that confused everything. They named their video AND audio ".mp4" but didn't use Mpeg Part 4 standards, they stuck their own junk in there.

And at the time, their video was 640X480 junk so they gave it a fancy name of "Podcast" to disguise it as something new. Apple user rejoiced that they had their very own video system with a name that matched the "-Pod" concept, and got a warm fuzzy.

Meanwhile, Xvid/AVI has been the world standard for 20+ years, and is clean and simple to understand, but Apple didn't want their users to have that kind of freedom. There was too much free Windows video software out there, and Apple didn't want any users to jump ship.

Manufacturers helped muck things up even more by throwing "Plays .MP4" on everything, confusion reigned and everything went to hell in a handbasket.

We went through a lot of years of THIS player doesn't play THAT, and THAT player doesn't play THIS until finally H.264 or X264 is now the universal target standard, although we're not fully switched over everywhere because the dullards keep dragging their ass.

There you have it! History in a nutshell.

[turk690]

Is there a book or a class or something? Everyone on here talks technical lingo like codecs, containers, etc. and I can't understand any of it. How do people on here know all this crap? I don't really see anything online that teaches the ins and outs.

How does an AVERAGE person with a household camcorder get their foot in the door and REALLY learn about editing and all the lingo?

Ask me anything. But first tell me what why you still have a 56k modem and 3.5" floppy on your i7-950.

[dragonkeeper]

Ask me anything. But first tell me what why you still have a 56k modem and 3.5" floppy on your i7-950.

If the op lives in a rural area (farms and such) they may be all they have, as for the floppy I haven't the faintest idea why someone would nee one of those. Bu ton the other hand if this was a custom pc built by a shop the OP may have gotten taken (non essential add-ons).

[Cornucopia]

If you're interested in doing this as a profession, going to a school and learning it is good. It helps you to see the big picture so you can connect the dots even what not all the dots are there. That's what I did.

If it's more of a hobby or part-time profession, there are plenty of good books by FocalPress. It'll cost a little, but they're usually well written and worth it.

Otherwise, if you don't have any $$, start Googling. "Video editing", "file formats" "codec", etc. and build up your vocabulary slowly but surely.

Scott

[fritzi93]

Funny thread.

I often think that just when I'm starting to get competent at some particular aspect of this hobby, it enters obsolescence. So I have to learn a new method. I first came here 10 years ago when it was vcdhelp to, you guessed it, learn how to make VCDs.

[pandy]

Here's an example of what the problem is. You search for "Video Container"and you start reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_format_%28digital%29 . As you're reading, you get to a point where it starts saying stuff like "MP4 (standard audio and video container for the MPEG-4 multimedia portfolio, based on the ISO base media file format defined in MPEG-4 Part 12 and JPEG 2000 Part 12) which in turn was based on the QuickTime file format."

Huh? See the problem here? Nothing explains it for a BEGINNER. Is "MPEG-4" the same thing as the video files that end with a .mp4? Are these better or worse quality than other formats?

on Wikipedia You can find quite easy various comparison between audio, video codecs and containers - anyway i understand You point of view.

Think of it another way. Say you're learning math in school. You start off with basic arithmetic. Then it's, algebra, geometry, and so forth as you work your way up. SO where do you start in learning video stuff?

So my learning start in middle of 80's last century, on end of 80's i bought Amiga and it started for real and i must say Amiga was very good start point to learn what is multimedia, what is video, what is audio - today it is much easier to learn - knowledge is everywhere if You want to learn... so it is up to You but... if this is hobby You don't need any school but You need will to learn.

[hech54]

I still don't understand much of the "container" stuff....it confuses me. The best advise I can give is to learn one project at a time....IE...learn the video properties of the video you are dealing with RIGHT NOW and always keep your "end product" in mind. "End Product" meaning "What is this going to be played on?"....a DVD player?, YouTube?, etc etc.
Aside from creating and burning a DVD(to the proper DVD specs)....there is no "universal playable format"....Grandma is not going to be able to play a WMV file, an AVI file, or any other kind of file burned to CD or DVD(as data) on the DVD player you bought her for Christmas 10 years ago. THAT is what you keep in mind.....and even that is not "editing".

[pandy]

Ok, container is simple idea to put video and audio in one file that is fully sufficient ie You can play file and watch and hear video - usually You can have subtitles, some additional data, very frequently multiple audio tracks, some containers allow to store multiple audio and video tracks (for example MPEG Transport Stream which is standard container in broadcast industry).

There is so many containers due time/history (various operating system use usually own container - like AVI in Windows, Quicktime in Apple OS etc) also containers address various needs - like MPEG Transport Stream is focused on wide broadcast and it is optimized to deal with transmission problems. So there no simple answer which container/codec is best - usually is good to use industry standard codecs and containers (ie well specified by independent authorities - like ISO).

[TBoneit]

Ask me anything. But first tell me what why you still have a 56k modem and 3.5" floppy on your i7-950.

If the op lives in a rural area (farms and such) they may be all they have, as for the floppy I haven't the faintest idea why someone would nee one of those. Bu ton the other hand if this was a custom pc built by a shop the OP may have gotten taken (non essential add-ons).

It's funny you should mention floppy drives. I built a I7 2600 for my brother using a motherboard with no IDE, Parallel port or floppy port.

I installed a new DVD burner., First thing I heard was I want to use my old IDE burner too.
Next thing I heard was where do I plug in my old HP inkjet, I offered a new printer, No he wants his old one.
Third thing was where do my floppies go.

Talked him out of the IDE drive
Put in a PCI parallel port after the USB to parallel port would find and setup the printer but wouldn't print.
USB Floppy

This year I had a request from a customer for a computer with 3.5" & 5.25" floppy drives. I had to sell a used computer to get a bios that had support for 360K & 1.2Meg floppy drives.

Last year it was a win 3.1 with both floppy drive sizes to another customer.

Floppies may be on life supprrt but they live.

[jman98]

TBoneit - Don't those 5.25 inch drives have weird connectors that nobody supports any more? You can still find 3.5 inch floppy drive connectors on modern motherboards or just buy a USB one, but if I remember correctly those 5.25 inch drives used a completely different kind of connector.

JohnnyGalaga - I got started about 10 years ago because I wanted to record TV shows to disc and keep them. I got started by making VCDs and then I quickly switched to making SVCDs. In those days DVD burners were very expensive and so was the media. I bought MPEGVCR which enabled me to edit MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 video. MPEGVCR is easy to use although at the time it was pretty expensive (they have since dropped the price a lot). Eventually I got a DVD burner and I was able to graduate up to making DVDs and from there move on to BluRays in recent years. You have to start somewhere. I'd suggest starting with DVDs as they are much simpler than working with BluRays and high def video. I read stuff here and on another forum or two and I did a LOT of internet searching. If you get good at searching you can often find answers to your questions without having to ask them yourself. Also, I read a LOT and I mean a LOT of guides on how to do various things and I followed them. With time and experience you will improve and learn more. But if you are one of those people who just wants to go "clicky click" on a couple of buttons and then be done with it, you're not going to learn very much. And when something goes wrong, you won't know why or how to fix it.

[AlanHK]

TBoneit - Don't those 5.25 inch drives have weird connectors that nobody supports any more? You can still find 3.5 inch floppy drive connectors on modern motherboards or just buy a USB one, but if I remember correctly those 5.25 inch drives used a completely different kind of connector.

Floppy drive cables, both for 3.5" 1.44 MB and 5.25" 1.2 MB, have the same motherboard connector end. For 286s it was standard to have both size floppies, on one cable with two plugs for either or both kinds of drive as A: and B: (which is why the first hard disk is C:).

So 5.25s should physically work with any motherboard with a floppy socket. It's possible they removed support in the BIOS, but it costs them nothing to leave it in.

[edDV]

How did this thread morph to vintage floppy drives?

[AlanHK]

How did this thread morph to vintage floppy drives?

Word association football.
aka Thread drift.

[budwzr]

Think of a "container" as a jimmy hat for AV files.

[pandy]

IMHO It is more like shopping bag than rubber johnny but...

[budwzr]

IMHO It is more like shopping bag than rubber johnny but...

Yeah, I see your point, but a shopping bag is reusable.

Maybe more like a paper hot dog holder. The bun is the video, and the hotdog is the audio, and multiple audio would be mustard, onions, etc.

[JimmyS]

Apple is the one that confused everything. They named their video AND audio ".mp4" but didn't use Mpeg Part 4 standards, they stuck their own junk in there.

According to doom9's FAQ, this was Apples "sin".

2) What extension is MP4 using?
- .mp4: only official extension, for all audio and video and advanced content files (and combinations)

other related extensions:
- .m4v: .mp4 files with the WRONG extension introduced by apple for video+audio files, m4v can safely be renamed to .mp4
- .m4a: .mp4 files with the WRONG extension introduced by apple for audio-only files, m4a can safely be renamed to .mp4
- .m4p: DRM protected files sold in iTunes, using the DRM sheme developed by apple...

The Faq is at:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=62723


Not sure what the MPG-4 Part 4 complaint is about. Most of what I find regarding this pertains to Advanced Audio Coding (AAC).

But from the Overview of the MPEG-4 Standard, they have this about the MPEG-4 standard in general:

10.9 MPEG-4 File Format
The MP4 file format is designed to contain the media information of an MPEG-4 presentation in a flexible, extensible format which facilitates interchange, management, editing, and presentation of the media. This presentation may be ‘local’ to the system containing the presentation, or may be via a network or other stream delivery mechanism (a TransMux). The file format is designed to be independent of any particular delivery protocol while enabling efficient support for delivery in general. The design is based on the QuickTime® format from Apple Computer Inc.

[pepegot1]

1. Use this forum
2. Google
3. Get a good book or books.
Work at it-nothing worth while comes to fruition without excertion.

[JohnnyGalaga]

Well, this thread has taken off a little! Hokay, lots of good replies. Holey crap I've gotta long way to go.

I built the machine myself. First-time build. The floppy and modem were parts from an old computer. I figured since I had extra slots and bays, might as well slap-em in dere! Actually, I have some old radio software on floppies and sometimes need to send a fax.

My camera is a Canon HF21. I hope to upgrade to something with less noise but no idea what to get. I guess "pro-sumer" is prolly what I want. With no life and no girlfriend or kids, I can get 1 new toy a year even being borderline middle/lower class.