best settings for capturing a VHS on VideoGlide?

[matt9b]

What are the best settings for capturing a VHS on VideoGlide? I'm in UK, so PAL land.

I understand 'PAL DV' is the best way forward, but what fps?

I need to have an archive in the best possible quality of the original interlaced VHS footage.

I will eventually de-interlace and compress for playback on computer, and make another format or use archive for TV playback or DVD. But before I can even start on any of this, I NEED to know what is the best format and fps to capture the VHS footage in top quality in the first place.

I've done hours and hours of searching forums and discovered that DV PAL is the best format, but no mention of frames per second? not found the answer anywhere. I'm on a tight schedule so I'm praying someone here will know.

Thanks

[poisondeathray]

"PAL" implies 50Hz , or 25 frames per second, ( or 50 fields per second)

[DB83]

If you really have done all those hours of research then you would also have discovered that DV is not the best format. It is the best compomise between file-size and quality but it is not the 'best format'.

"De-interlace to watch on a computer". Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear......................

[jagabo]

As was pointed out, you have no choice in frame size of frame rate when capturing PAL DV. It's always 720x576 at 25 frames per second (50 fields per second). Film source may not need to be deinterlaced but only phase aligned. You can do that simply with VirtualDub's Field Delay filter. Or with several methods in AviSynth including SeparateFields().Trim(1,0).Weave().

[matt9b]

Thanks for your kind replies. I'm not sure why I've made you angry, but I'm sure you have good reason. I apologise for whatever I've done to cause any upset or sarcasm.

I understand that you think there is no option for frame rate under PAL DV, but there is in this software, hence my confusion. I'm attaching a screenshot. Please see the field for 'frame rate' under PAL DV, in "Picture 1" attached.

In case it doesn't attach, please see the image here: https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/l7XSZ.png

I know that PAL is 50 fields and it's displayed as 25fps on television, but it's delivered to the television from the VHS as 50 fields. So, there-in lies the confusion. I'm connected to the VHS player via a USB -> composite lead. (S-video leads don't have a good result)

What are the settings and frame-rate I need to select in VideoGlide for the highest quality captured footage?

Thanks

[matt9b]

I should also mention these are 1980s and 1990s home videos in case it makes a difference.

If anyone knows the best settings I should be using to capture in video glide, that would be really deeply appreciated.

Thanks

[DB83]

As I write this - sarcasm mode off - I can not see any picture. But whatever this software is trying to tell you then it could not capture DV in any thing other than 25 frames per second not for a VHS source.

A VHS source does not display on a tv at 25 fps. Fps is a digital medium. VHS is analogue so it is 625 lines @ 50 mhz.

I suggest you now give this a try. It may not even work since to capture DV the program may expect a DV source ie from a camera and not from the VHS

[matt9b]

As I write this - sarcasm mode off - I can not see any picture.

Please check my post, the link is there. Again here: https://forum.videohelp.com/images/imgfiles/l7XSZ.png

A VHS source does not display on a tv at 25 fps. Fps is a digital medium. VHS is analogue so it is 625 lines @ 50 mhz.

I understand that, but it doesn't tell me the best settings to capture. To me, 50mhz means 50 per second. I know PAL is upper field, lower field, and both fields make up one frame, but what does that mean to the capture software - does that mean I should capture at 50fps? I understand the theory behind PAL. What I'm asking is basically, how does the videoglide software work - What should I type into the fps field? 50fps or 25fps? If it's intelligent software, in 'DV PAL', it should record 25fps at 50i , but since it's asking me to type in frame rate, it's bizarre. Should I put 50 in the fps, to make sure it captures the individual fields and records the interlace distinctly, or 25fps and just hope that it will capture the interlace transparently without compressing two fields into progressives frames?

At the risk of repeating myself, what are the settings I should use?

I suggest you now give this a try. It may not even work since to capture DV the program may expect a DV source ie from a camera and not from the VHS

Give what a try? I think part of your post was erased..

thanks for any help you can offer, it's deeply appreciated.

[DB83]

Ok. I can now see the attachment. But even if the sofware allows this it makes no real sense to capture in anything but 25 fps.

That is what I meant by 'give this a try'.

But since my earlier comment I now see another topic where you have two devices - an ADVC and a usb gizmo. I hardly expect the sofware to capture correctly with the ADVC at anything but 25 fps. And as for the gizmo I do not expect it to capture in DV at all.

So try both and report back.

[jagabo]

The software should not let you choose anything but 25 fps (50 fields) for capturing DV AVI.

[matt9b]

The software should not let you choose anything but 25 fps (50 fields) for capturing DV AVI.

As mentioned, it not only asks for you to choose, it REQUIRES that you choose the fps. It doesn't mention fields anywhere, so it's a bit disconcerting; you don't really know what it's recording at, 25i, 25p, 50i, or 50p. I appreciate what you're saying but take a look at the picture I posted, you can also download VideoGlide and have a look for yourself if you don't believe me

[matt9b]

Ok. I can now see the attachment. But even if the sofware allows this it makes no real sense to capture in anything but 25 fps. That is what I meant by 'give this a try'.

But, I can 'try' anything, I'm asking what's the right thing to do. I'm only going to get one chance at this, then I have to catch a train. It captures at any frame rate I type in. What I don't want is to discover in a year's time that it hasn't captured each field distinctly. I need an archival copy so that I can edit in the future.

Ok, so I'll type in "25" in the fps field then if you think that's best? You sure it'll record at 50i?

But since my earlier comment I now see another topic where you have two devices - an ADVC and a usb gizmo. I hardly expect the sofware to capture correctly with the ADVC at anything but 25 fps. And as for the gizmo I do not expect it to capture in DV at all. So try both and report back.

To prevent both topics merging in, I've replied to this in the other thread

[DB83]

Do not over-complicate the issue. Capture devices often will allow you to select different frame rates. But if one of your goals is DVD it would be madness not to stick with 25 fps.

[jagabo]

Ok, so I'll type in "25" in the fps field then if you think that's best? You sure it'll record at 50i?

Since the software shouldn't let you capture anything other than 25i when capturing as PAL DV nobody can be sure what the software is doing. Enter 25 as the frame rate and in all likelihood it will be 25i because all analog PAL video sources are 25i. Why don't you just capture a few seconds of video from your source and see what you get?

[matt9b]

Why don't you just capture a few seconds of video from your source and see what you get?

lol great idea, I thought of this too, but my eyes aren't THAT estute! They're good but not that good

Is there any mac software that will tell me exactly what fps and i / p a .mov file is in? Bear in mind that since VideoGlide transcodes output to a different format, even if we find software for Mac that can tell me the format, there's no guarantee it was captured in the same.

All this seems rather overcomplicated for a simple task... I have been a software developer! There's such a gap in the market when it comes to Mac Capture software. Keep things sensible and transparent is what I say!

[poisondeathray]

Is there any mac software that will tell me exactly what fps and i / p a .mov file is in? Bear in mind that since VideoGlide transcodes output to a different format, even if we find software for Mac that can tell me the format, there's no guarantee it was captured in the same.

mediainfo mac , or media inspector
http://mediainspector.massanti.com/

But it's not necessarily accurate... it only reads header information. Only your eyes are that estute. Seriously.

Video can be encoded interlaced but be progressive content, or vice versa. You have to examine the file with your eyes.

But there is only one "fps" value that makes any sense at all in this context. Nothing else makes any sense


Note: 50i and 25i are the same thing, they are just different naming conventions

[DB83]

To a degree ALL capture software transcodes to a different format. It receives all those wonderful 0's and 1's and puts them together - encodes - in such a way that the playing software - decoder - can understand.

The suggestion of creating a short video is quite serious and we are trying to help. 15-20 seconds will be long enough and make it available here so we can also see what media info reports but more than that check the playback for any issues.

[lordsmurf]

VideoGlide is just software.
What piece of hardware are you using?
I'd guess cheapo crap, since that's what VideoGlide comes with.

That will make one of the biggest differences to quality.

[DB83]

Had any more thoughts about providing these clips ?

Most of us can not download and run videoglide since it is a Mac product. And it also seems that the DV is purports to capture is not true DV - got that from one of your other topics and a quick look at the spec from the videoglide site.

But to be absolutely sure I would still like to see some samples.

[matt9b]

Hmm I'm not convinced that VideoGlide's 'best settings' will depend on hardware. Surely if setting [B] is the least lossy, it'll still be the least lossy regardless of which capture device you're using.

Don't worry, I just thought there might be some VideoGlide guru's on here who would know the best setting for PAL50 VHS video capture. Not to worry

[jagabo]

When capturing from the ADVC the ADVC is digitizing the data and compressing with the DV codec. All the computer should be doing is putting that already compressed data in a file -- that is the best setting because it avoids any recompression. PAL DV is always 720x576, from the ADVC 25 interlaced frames per second.

When capturing from a raw YUV capture device you should capture as YUY2 or some other YUV 4:2:2 format and compress with a lossless codec like HuffYUV. Capture at 720x576 or 704x576, 25 interlaced frames per second.

And of course, worrying about the capture card is the last step. Quality starts at the VHS deck. You need a S-VHS deck with a line time base corrector.

[matt9b]

When capturing from the ADVC the ADVC is digitizing the data and compressing with the DV codec.

Are you certain that the ADVC is compressing the data? Is it not the software that does the compression into DV codec?

All the computer should be doing is putting that already compressed data in a file -- that is the best setting because it avoids any recompression.

But this is what I've been asking. For no recompression, no transcoding, and correct fps, correct field order, correct number of fields for VHS PAL50 tapes, what is the best setting in VideoGlide for this?

PAL DV is always 720x576. From VHS deck it should be captured at 25 interlaced frames per second.

I assume by 25 interlaced frames a second you mean 50i, that would be correct. But this is basically what I've been asking all along - what setting do I need to click on to achieve this in VideoGlide?

compress with a lossless codec like HuffYUV. Captured at 720x576 or 704x576, 25 interlaced frames per second.

Thanks, but I know this already. The question is how do I achieve this in VideoGlide? i.e. what button where do I press? lol! I must not be communicating correctly. This thread isn't a theory question, it's a software question. What button do I click in VideoGlide to achieve the best setting for VHS ( i.e. least lossy compression at 50i )?

[DB83]

Hmm I'm not convinced that VideoGlide's 'best settings' will depend on hardware. Surely if setting [B] is the least lossy, it'll still be the least lossy regardless of which capture device you're using.

Don't worry, I just thought there might be some VideoGlide guru's on here who would know the best setting for PAL50 VHS video capture. Not to worry

If I read it correctly, videoglide will only capture at a maximum of 640*480 whatever compression you choose.

My friend above explains that 640*480 is not optimum so you will end up re-encoding which means a loss in quality unless you can choose a lossless codec such as HuffYuv or Lagarith. Whether either of these are availbale for the Mac I simply do not know.

Now if you want a 'Videoglide guru' to get involved then I suggest you post another topic with a good descriptive header in the Mac forum as all the topics you posted so far are intended for Windows users.

[jagabo]

When capturing from the ADVC the ADVC is digitizing the data and compressing with the DV codec.

Are you certain that the ADVC is compressing the data?

Yes. That's the whole point of using the ADVC.

All the computer should be doing is putting that already compressed data in a file -- that is the best setting because it avoids any recompression.

But this is what I've been asking. For no recompression, no transcoding, and correct fps, correct field order, correct number of fields for VHS PAL50 tapes, what is the best setting in VideoGlide for this?

I don't know what that software does. Some software can capture DV and convert to other formats on-the-fly. For example, it's common to convert to MPEG 2 so the video is ready to go to a DVD.

PAL DV is always 720x576. From VHS deck it should be captured at 25 interlaced frames per second.

I assume by 25 interlaced frames a second you mean 50i, that would be correct.

Yes. 50i is the same thing as 25i. Marketing just thinks bigger numbers are better.

But this is basically what I've been asking all along - what setting do I need to click on to achieve this in VideoGlide?

I don't know.

[DB83]

First of all, get the words 50i out of your head. They are only clouding the issue.

Now I already thought I explained the function of the ADVC - Analogue (to) Digital Video Converter. To clarify, inside the unit is a chip with a hardware compression codec which is pure DV or in simple terms 720*576 at 25 frames per second. Software does not need to do any additional conversion so you end up with a 720*576 at 25 frames per second DV. If you choose anything else then it is not pure DV.

Videoglide, it appears, is incapable of providing that even if you select 25 frames per second. We simply do not know what compression settings Videoglide will provide for - it talks about 'High Quality'. Even 'better than DV'. Now if we can see just a small sample we can get a better idea of its capability.

So just do this. Select DV. Select 25 frames per second. Make a small clip from the usb device and another from the ADVC and make them availbale. It is not rocket science surely. You could even take this ferther and tell us what other compression options exist and even make some clips for these.

[matt9b]

So just do this. Select DV. Select 25 frames per second. Make a small clip from the usb device and another from the ADVC and make them availbale. It is not rocket science surely. You could even take this ferther and tell us what other compression options exist and even make some clips for these.

Sure no problem! I offered doing this earlier but no one seemed interested Will do it and post back as soon as I get a spare second

[jagabo]

So just do this. Select DV. Select 25 frames per second. Make a small clip from the usb device and another from the ADVC and make them availbale. It is not rocket science surely. You could even take this ferther and tell us what other compression options exist and even make some clips for these.

Sure no problem! I offered doing this earlier but no one seemed interested Will do it and post back as soon as I get a spare second

DB83 asked for samples at least twice. I didn't ask because he had already. Of course, even if it turns out to be normal PAL DV there's no way of saying for sure the software didn't reencode.

[matt9b]

DB83 asked for samples at least twice.

I don't think so, read back. but no worries, I'll see what I can do when I get a spare second

[jagabo]

DB83 asked for samples at least twice.

I don't think so, read back.

No, you read back. I don't see any post (before #26) where you offered to supply samples. I see two where DB83 asked for samples. Granted, one is just before #26.

This thread isn't a theory question, it's a software question.

If you understood the theory you wouldn't be asking the question. You would have just run a few quick test caps at 25 and 50 fps and examined what you got.

[DB83]

There are references to requests for clips at posts #17, #19 and #25.

No more from me until I see the clips even if they prove nothing.