Looking for good Camcorder to Start

[HoosierGuy]

I've never had a camcorder before. The only video I shoot now is with my little digi cam and iTouch4. I want to get into video editing and figured if I learn how to edit film
I first need footage. So I'm thinking of buying a camcorder.

I was looking online and noticed there are now lots of cheap camcorders that record in hi-def. What's a good one that can produce really good video images but also low cost.
Are there any low cost ones that can record video that looks good enough to broadcast on TV? I'm looking to spend under $500 to start out with. I would prefer to spend $300 or so in case if I don't like using a camcorder i will not be out $500 or more.

Also, if a camcorder records in hi-def, does that mean the image is top of the line? Can a $400 hi-def camcorder record video as good as a $5,000 camcorder or those recorders used by big movie studies and TV series production companies?

Thanks

[edDV]

Also, if a camcorder records in hi-def, does that mean the image is top of the line? Can a $400 hi-def camcorder record video as good as a $5,000 camcorder or those recorders used by big movie studies and TV series production companies?

No. Higher end camcorders have both quality and feature advantages. The higher you go the more specilized the cam is to a particular application.

High def only refers to the recording format. Most low end camcorders upscale resolution from a single Bayer pattern sensor and a cheap plastic lens.

[edDV]

I've never had a camcorder before. The only video I shoot now is with my little digi cam and iTouch4. I want to get into video editing and figured if I learn how to edit film
I first need footage. So I'm thinking of buying a camcorder.

So your long term goal is to shoot and edit film?

What is your computer platform? Do you have edit software?

Generally I recommend you start with SD to gain skills and keep cost low. Used MiniDV cams are cheap used. Then save for a quality HD camcorder and better software while you are learning.

HD video is more difficult to edit and requires a more powerful computer.

[HoosierGuy]

No, no edit software yet except Wax. I downloaded Wax and was playing with it last week. I would like to go to Maine and take a week long workshop on how to use Final Cut Pro. But I've never used that before and don't even have a Mac. That's in the future. Now I want to buy some low cost editing program (something like the Sony software I saw on amazon for around $70 or so) and start editing that way. I also have a book ordered and plan to order and read more books on editing. I have a degree in Electron Media but I never took the video production class. I'm going to see if I can go back to college and take that one class. I'm hoping it will help me get hired on at a TV station doing production work.

I was at Best Buy tonight looking at all their camcorders. Some I can afford right now, those in the $350 or so range. Any good cams to learn the art of shooting and editing in that price range? Any online sites that offer good prices on camcorders?

Thanks

[HoosierGuy]

Also with these cams, what are all the different kinds of media that is used to store the footage? I'm used to my digital cams and theircards. I can load the pictures on my PC and erase the card completely for a fresh card. I see some talk of mini-tape or something. Can all modern media used in camcorders be erased quickly and be used over and over again?

One thing I would be willing to spend extra on is a good zoom. That's one thing I don't like about my digi-cams, I always wish I could zoom in more.

[zoobie]

make www.camcorderinfo.com your friend and absorb as much info as humanly possible before doing anything rash

[HoosierGuy]

Question about the Canon FS200. Videos are recorded using MPEG-2 compression, but are saved as .MOD files. Now, can Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite
edit this easy? Amazon says Sony Vegas Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite can open up MPEG-2. But should I be worried about .MOD files? Would I have any problem opening them up with the Sony program?

Thanks

[HoosierGuy]

Does the supplied software by Cannon change the MOD. files so they can be opened with other editing programs? I'm probably going to get a low cost Cannon because - I've never had a Camcorder before so my first one should be low cost and... more importantly I'm interested in editing. I want to make sure the Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite can open the videos up correctly for editing.

[HoosierGuy]

Another question - If I would buy a HD Panasonic HDC-TM55K or any HD cam, will I be able to play the video on my computer? Would I need a special HD video card to play the video?

It looks like all the decent cams are HD. I would buy the Canon FS200 but it saves in that MOD file extension. I want to buy a cam that I can edit the film with Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite. What I want is an affordable cam to take lots of video and then learn to edit the film. I wonder if should just get the Sony DCR-SX60.

[ehero]

Good thread, I have also plan to go to movie editing area. But first of all trying to understand which equipment to go with. thanks

[ranchhand]

I did a ton of studying on this, got a couple of cheap camcorders which I totally was not happy with and returned, and finally went with this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830120290
It is out of date now and will cost more than you want to pay, but I thought just for the info I would mention it. The big problem I found with cheap camcorders is that they will do fairly well in bright sunshine, but for even normal room light at night they darken down to where it just looks bad. I took this all over China, Europe, USA road trips, and used the heck out of it. My night scenes in Venice with all the shops lit up and the boats are spectacular. Also, be aware that it can be difficult to find editors that will handle AVCHD well, and you will need a pretty powerful computer to edit. Just a thought.

[HoosierGuy]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out. So I think I'll get that low cost Sony. It records in MPEG2 or whatever and not MOD. I'll get that and the Sony software and start shotting and playing around on my laptop that should be to handle the standard definition, I guess. Actually, I would be happy to have video quality somewhat better than my 10 mega pixel Cyber-shot still camera. If the video from the Sony Camcorder can match that or better it I will be happy.

[HoosierGuy]

I just saw a $240 Sony cam in Wall Mart. This is getting better the more I look. I'll get that and then order the Sony editing software from Amazon in a few weeks. Plus I got my Cut by Cut book from Amazon today. So total cost for me to start practicing and learning - $240 plus $90 for software. Already have computers to load it on.

[edDV]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out.

Then you should stick to SD (MiniDV or Digital8) which will have far less artifact issues or computer load, so you can learn to shoot and edit video. Why carry all the HD compression baggage? Why wait for HD rendering?

[HoosierGuy]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out.

Then you should stick to SD (MiniDV or Digital8) which will have far less artifact issues or computer load, so you can learn to shoot and edit video. Why carry all the HD compression baggage? Why wait for HD rendering?

What formats are MiniDV and Digital 8? I want to record on something that is easy to transfer and erase and record again.

[HoosierGuy]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out.

Then you should stick to SD (MiniDV or Digital8) which will have far less artifact issues or computer load, so you can learn to shoot and edit video. Why carry all the HD compression baggage? Why wait for HD rendering?

What formats are MiniDV and Digital 8? I want to record on something that is easy to transfer and erase and record again.

What I mean is, what formats can I save on my computer? Acroding to the Sony site the software I'm looking at opens up these:

Supported File Formats
Opens: AAC, AA3, AIFF, AVI, BMP, CDA, FLAC, GIF, JPEG, M2TS, MP3, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, OGG, OMA, PCA, PNG, QuickTime®, SND, SFA, W64, WAV, WDP, WMA, WMV


So I want to get a cam that saves on my PC in one of those formats/encodings.

[edDV]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out.

Then you should stick to SD (MiniDV or Digital8) which will have far less artifact issues or computer load, so you can learn to shoot and edit video. Why carry all the HD compression baggage? Why wait for HD rendering?

What formats are MiniDV and Digital 8? I want to record on something that is easy to transfer and erase and record again.

Those are 1998-2009 tape formats. The same format used for most SD broadcasting. MiniDV tape is $2.50./hr and erasable. Most all editors back to Y2K handle DV format.

And if you expect to have any cred in the video biz, you will be expected to know DV format.

[Tim Ward]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out.

Then you should stick to SD (MiniDV or Digital8) which will have far less artifact issues or computer load, so you can learn to shoot and edit video. Why carry all the HD compression baggage? Why wait for HD rendering?

What formats are MiniDV and Digital 8? I want to record on something that is easy to transfer and erase and record again.

This is what you need to do: 1. buy a cheap new or used camcorder that records to MiniDV tape, 2. buy a 4-pin to 6-pin IEEE-1394 Firewire cable to connect to your computer, 3. make sure your computer has an IEEE-1394 Firewire (aka i-Link) port; if not, buy a Firewire card and install in said computer.

All editing programs worth their weight support the capture and edit of MiniDV video. This will teach you better fundamental editing skills than using a camcorder that records to harddrive, DVD, or memory cards. It's also easier with media management. Tapes are CHEAP.

Good luck!

Tim (broadcast/professional shooter & editor)

[HoosierGuy]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out.

Then you should stick to SD (MiniDV or Digital8) which will have far less artifact issues or computer load, so you can learn to shoot and edit video. Why carry all the HD compression baggage? Why wait for HD rendering?

What formats are MiniDV and Digital 8? I want to record on something that is easy to transfer and erase and record again.

This is what you need to do: 1. buy a cheap new or used camcorder that records to MiniDV tape,

Tim (broadcast/professional shooter & editor)

I was looking on ebay at the MiniDV cams and saw some good prices. How's the quality of these things in general? Are the cams I see on ebay for $100 most likely going to be very worn and used cameras that's not worth spending $100 on?

[MJA]

thats one of the nice features of Canon HV20/30/40 .you can shoot in both HD,and SD.I bought the 20 for $499 refurb.

[edDV]

I have to keep focused. I'm interested in editing, not putting HD video on my computer or TV. I'm not there yet. I'm starting out.

Then you should stick to SD (MiniDV or Digital8) which will have far less artifact issues or computer load, so you can learn to shoot and edit video. Why carry all the HD compression baggage? Why wait for HD rendering?

What formats are MiniDV and Digital 8? I want to record on something that is easy to transfer and erase and record again.

This is what you need to do: 1. buy a cheap new or used camcorder that records to MiniDV tape,

Tim (broadcast/professional shooter & editor)

I was looking on ebay at the MiniDV cams and saw some good prices. How's the quality of these things in general? Are the cams I see on ebay for $100 most likely going to be very worn and used cameras that's not worth spending $100 on?

Condition varies but most people aren't heavy users.

For camcorders and other technical equipment, I prefer Craigslist so I can check it out before purchase.

Beware of anything badly scratched or shows evidence of having been dropped.

[MurbeckJackson]

If you want a HD camcorder with full movie capability, look toward the japanese, They have Speed digital and their new Camcorder the Speed HD-120D (or 120T) is incredible for the price of what you're looking for. Try it.

[MJA]

not available in the US

[filmboss80]

If you want a HD camcorder with full movie capability, look toward the japanese, They have Speed digital and their new Camcorder the Speed HD-120D (or 120T) is incredible for the price of what you're looking for. Try it.

Chinese-made, not Japanese. Format is H.264, with high GOPs that make it a mess to edit the footage. Cheap lens and CMOS sensor results in many user complaints about "wobbling motion."

And, as mentioned by MJA, it is not available in the US.

[MurbeckJackson]

It's Japanase, Hence the ".jp" by the name. Also, it's available anywhere if you get it off ebay.

[MJA]

No support.avoid

[Tim Ward]

HoosierGuy is interested in learning VIDEO EDITING. Although tape is all but officially dead, a MiniDV camcorder is easy to use and easy to help teach editing. Solid-state cams open up a whole other can of worms that he doesn't need to mess with right now. eBay is fine for purchasing used cams because of their aggressive refund policies where if it isn't as described, the seller won't get paid if you dispute and return. So I feel confident in purchasing from there - I just do my research on the product, the seller's description of it, and the seller's history.

[edDV]

The advantage of DV format is it records individual frames (not MPEG GOPS) so it is ideal for learning editing and effects rendering. DV is also great for learning how to manage interlace video, including field order, inverse telecine, DVD authoring and other basic skills.

[HoosierGuy]

Now trying to decide on going after a used MiniDV camcorder on ebay around $50.00 or do I buy one on amazon used one for $160 (it has a return policy).

[MurbeckJackson]

Look for one on ebay also with return. Or try a medion pocket cam corder hd, on ebay good prices