Fixing my Panasonic AG-1980 / NV-FS200

[ADLou]

Hi folks

Since some of you seem to know this VCR, please let me ask for some bitterly needed technical help:

I just received my "new" Panasonic from eBay and discovered that it probably got a shock during shipping (badly packed). The first time I connected to the outlet, I heard a (gear?) snapping noise, and then it went into a state from which I can't get it out. It seems to be able to load, but unable to detect the end of the ejecting process. As a result, it even tries to load without a cassette inserted, which it abandons after two attempts.

After 1.5 days of research (it is my first VCR repair trip...), I reached the following conclusion: There is a problem either in mechanical timing (phase alignment, misalignment between left and right part of cassette loading mechanism, ...), or in ejected-state-detection (mode switch, sliding switch, ...). I hope it is the latter...

To get any further, I have to remove the cassette compartment. This is where I would like a little help:
1) Is there any concern of mechanical timing adjustment between the cassette compartment and the rest of the mechanism? (The compartment doesn't have its own motor and there are those gray gears to the right.) Anything that could jump into my face? I guess the compartment should be in the fully ejected state?
2) Where is the mode switch?

Any help, even just directing me towards knowledgeable people, will be highly appreciated!

Louis

[nic2k4]

Sounds like a tape detection problem. Haven't worked on this VCR, but I've fixed an Hitachi that had a similar problem. On the Hitachi there are 3 photo-sensors mounted on tall posts. 2 are next to the tape guides (either sides of the cassette) and 1 is in the middle and fits inside the round hole on the bottom of the cassette. The middle one needed to be re-soldered.

If you're unsure about the gears position mark them before removing anything. The mode switch usually is on the underside of the board, it's round and has a peg protruding. The peg sits inside a grooved gear (can be round or straight). I thought the problem was that at first and just wasted time.

[ADLou]

Forgot to mention: I get an E6 error message which means:
"Mechanism lock during front unloading (Cassette out)"

[ADLou]

Thanks nic2k4.

When I said "load" I meant cassette load, not tape load.

The whole behavior is as follows:

As soon as I plug it into the AC outlet, the VCR starts loading the cassette, even when there is NO cassette. This means that it doesn't detect the absence of cassette. For this I see two possible reasons: either a switch doesn't transmit correctly, or the cassette compartment doesn't come out 100% (though it looks like being pretty much at the end of the possible way). The latter could mean some displaced gear (bad alignment), remember noise when connected for the first time. A bad alignment could maybe also have as an effect to prevent the mode switch from detecting ejection, although the compartment is at the end of its course. I don't know though, if the mode switch is supposed to detect final eject status.

When there isn't a cassette, a security trap will catch the compartment on its way in and reverse its direction. Since it won't detect the end of ejection, the whole process will be performed a second time, after what the machine will shut down.

When there IS a (dummy) cassette, it will load normally, but only if beforehand I manually turned the capstan rotor long enough to simulate total ejection (thus tricking the mode switch??). When ejecting the cassette, it will fail to detect the end of ejection and take it in again. This time though, the loading will not succeed, the cassette will come out again and the VCR shut down.

Writing this down makes me think, and here is a deduction proposal (please check and correct):
- The mode switch works and is supposed to detect if the compartment is all the way out. If I manually turn the rotor, the mode switch will get into its starting position, allowing for a normal load. Otherwise it is out of sync with the cassette movement, and eventually the loading process will be aborted.
- Why does the cassette loading start spontaneously (even when rotor has been turned)? Possibly because in addition to the mode switch, the CPU also requires a signal from a cassette insertion micro-switch. This switch either fails to transmit, or can not do so, because the compartment doesn't get all the way out for some mechanical reason (doesn't really look like it though).
- But if the micro-switch is malfunctioning, it would mean that there are two problems: mechanical out-of-sync between mode switch and compartment AND bad micro-switch. This is a bit unlikely, but not impossible.

OK, now my head is turning and I need some enlightenment from somebody else...
Anybody?

Louis

[timmus]

I don't know if this helps, but here is the AG-1980 service manual. There is some good info on the tape transport mechanism and the related service codes.

[lordsmurf]

You'll find several user and service manuals here: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/user-manuals-and-2668.html

If you think it's a power-related issue, change the fuse in the power supply.
It's a pain in the butt, but I've done it.
It ships with a rare Japanese fuse, but you can find near-equivalents that work fine.

[ADLou]

Thanks timmus!
Being in Europe, I have a NV-FS200. I thought the two machines where +- the same, but now I am surprised to see how many significant differences there are, be it only the mechanism, which is the G-type for the PAL and the K-type for the NTSC machine. Your manual is more detailed than the s.m. for the NV-FS200 though, maybe the one or the other information will prove to be useful.

[themaster1]

When there IS a (dummy) cassette, it will load normally, but only if beforehand I manually turned the capstan rotor long enough to simulate total ejection (thus tricking the mode switch??). When ejecting the cassette, it will fail to detect the end of ejection and take it in again. This time though, the loading will not succeed, the cassette will come out again and the VCR shut down.

It seems to me that's the appropriate way to fix your problem EXCEPT the vcr must be unpluged (no current)

[Deter]

Here is the deal, many of the AG1980's on ebay are junk. They all have issues. No idea why, these are very tempered machines. Been down the road with the repairs. Even if you get the loading fixed, more than likely you will have more issues with the machine. No idea why, but the CAPS go bad in the AG1980 and the machine itself has tons, I means tons......

It is kind of like this, no idea why, you start replacing CAPS all of a sudden the machine starts getting different problems. Streaks in the picture, color problems, you name it. You basically need to find all the bad caps and replace every one of them.

(kind of like re-building the machine)

The sad part is you put in all this time and money and the heads could be worn out, cause u never got to actually test the machine.

The gears for the loading in the AG1980 are below the main board. In that area is where you have to go in an fix either springs or gears to get it loading. You are basically pulling the entire machine apart to get to that area. It is a pain.

Have a few AG1980's that work perfect, went to town getting the machines restored, you can contact if interested. These are not $50 ebay machines. You get what you pay for.

Back to EBAY, you are going to see:
Sold as is:
Tested works great, unit powers up and plays the tapes

That is not a test!

You need to test
SP Tapes
LP Tapes
SLP Tapes

You need to test for herringbone noise
color shifting and patterns
mis-alignment of the machine
Tracking of tapes
look for drop outs in the video
Very dull to no lighting on the front panel is a sign of bad capacitors
If the machine actually make noise you also have some bad capacitors
Color shifting, bad caps again
Color is off, bad caps
You need to check the TBC

A lot of stuff needs to be done to find out if you have a fully working AG1980, and most of the stuff on ebay, you are not going to get it. If you do than you are lucky or actually paid money for it.

[classfour]

Thanks timmus! I certainly could use the service manual for the AG-1980, mine did not come with one.

[Lodovico]

If you paid by PayPal, you should open a PayPal dispute while there's still time. The limit is 45 days from the date of payment. As the VCR is "significantly not as described' you'll get your money back minus the return cost.

[Deter]

Lodovico,

The Avg. consumer has no idea about some of the issues I wrote above about. Basically spent the last 7 months repairing AG1980's. These are great machines if you get them working.

People just don't know what to look for, and what the results are from different problems with in the machine itself.

Let me put it this way, just pulled apart a JVC-SR-V101US, tonight, it looked naked compared to the circuitry of the 1980.

The 1980 looks like something built in 1980.

You have so many capacitors in the AG1980 it is not even funny. You change one, it is like a snowball effect, than something else goes wrong.

The caps in the AG 1980, control the color, the way the unit powers up, drop outs in the picture and so forth. You can usually listen to the machine and hear the caps sizzle.

(Usually means you need to get them replaced.)

Which ones to fix = Easter Egg Hunt

A lot of AG1980's were also ran really hard, meaning tons of hours of recording. I know of places that would record 24 hours a day. So the heads can be worn, pinch rollers off, and loading issues.

I have a lot of AG1980's, each one, plays the tapes a little bit different or the alignment and tracking tends to differ. If I have a specific problem, can usually pin-point it and know what needs to be repaired.

- have one machine that tracks anything you put in it. ---) My most prized AG1980
- Have two machines that tracks LP poorly
- A few machines that tracks LP perfect but not as good on SLP
- Have machines that play tapes with less tracking errors in the video.
- Have machines that will play a drop out instead of a tracking error.
- Have machines that have a sharper image.
- Have machines on SLP tapes that tend to leave the bottom of the screen a little bit lighter, kind of like a tracking error.
- Machines that record better......
- The sound can play better

Also have a specific method of how I set up the VCR for use.

This is all in the AG1980 family, every machine kind of has it own character or personality per say. From doing this, I can pick up with in a few seconds, the characteristics of the machines, and how it will behave. Can tell what needs to be fixed......

Most of the stuff above is the results of the alignment of the VCR, and it is kind of hit or miss trying to calibrate the alignment to have to machine behave in a specific manor. Sometimes it is in the circuitry itself. (all my Machines are in mint shape and need no repairs)

The Avg person puts the tape in the machine and hits play......Than records.....To be honest that is the 1st step in the process to actually restoring the video to a better quality than the source. The 2nd step is to record with the max bit-rates to get no to very little macro blocking.

On Avg with EBAY, you are looking at the cost of the machine and depending on the place you go. $75 to $300 in repairs. Some of the techs also may not have a clue and can mess up the machine even more.

With my standards I would say, almost anything I would get on EBAY would need repairs, if I got one that doesn't would be really lucky. It could be the $10 machine or the $900 machine, you just don't know....

Results = EBAY + Repairs + More Repairs = Finally a really good working machine.....

I kind of like repairing them cause you always learn more than what you knew before.

(Right now, kind of sick of it)

[ADLou]

Hi Deter, Lodovico et al.

Thanks for your inputs. The news is that I managed to fix my VCR.
Let me shortly recount this, as it may help others.

As I mentioned, I had the suspicion that it was a mechanical alignment problem due to the shock during the transportation. On these machines, the cassette basket doesn't have a motor of its own, but is mechanically linked to the main motor on the main chassis through some gears. One of them could have jumped a tooth or something like that.

Now, there was no way I would disassemble the whole thing without proper instructions, my experience level (back then) on VCRs being Zero. I found the service manual, but it was little more than a list of parts with an indication on how to remove the casing... There was also a reference to another service manual for the mechanical chassis, if you wanted to make mechanical adjustments. Boy did I want to... But where could I possibly find such a manual.

That's where providence came in, in the shape of some kind of Internet-Saint. His name is Wil Manshande, and he lives in Holland. He has a website http://www.freeservicemanuals.info/en/ with a list of countless service manuals. If you need one of them and he hasn't scanned it already for somebody else, he will scan it for you in a matter of a few days. And he does this for free!

I have always been put off by those people who try to make a business with all kinds of old manuals, basically selling something that doesn't even belong to them. How gladly on the other hand did I make a non-compulsory donation to Wil, who wants to upgrade to a more powerful scanner.

With the manual at hand, it was a pleasure to "manually put the mechanism into STOP-mode" (had no idea what this was, before) where all the gears are in a well defined aligned position (they even have little holes which are all facing each other in this state). Taking out the whole loading mechanism and putting it back in with the gears properly synchronized solved my problem!

Ok, I did spend an awful lot of time, but I also learned a lot and got rid of my blocking belief, that a VCR is something so horribly complicated and delicate (which it is) that it is out of the question to try to repair it yourself.

Now I hope I won't run into too many other issues. Although I tend to agree with Deter, this one seems to be in an above average shape (head cleaning roll almost totally white, no visible abrasion of the heads), which is why I wasn't too keen to send it back. The first impression is that it gives me a very clean and stable (thanks TBC!) picture. If I get a better result than from my former setup (a modern VCR but without s-video output, plus an external inexpensive TBC "CYP CTB-100") I shall be happy. I will soon start the tests.

[ADLou]

Hi ADLou

Was reading your post about fixing your AG-1980. Amazing you worked it out on your own. I'm having a similar problem whereby the tape will not load. Looks like re-timing is also necessary. Any chance of getting ahold of the manual you mention?

Thanks in advance.

The AG-1980 and the NV-FS200 have a different mechanical chassis. From what I see in the service manual timmus sent, yours may have the K-mechanism, but you have to verify this since the same VCR model may have different mechanical chassis versions depending on its production period. Download timmus' manual (higher up in this thread) and verify if it is your model. Did you check the service information display? Wil Manshande doesn't seem to have the manual for the K-mechanism. I hope you will be successful finding one elsewhere.

[MJA]

I was looking for a used VCR for my wedding tapes,but after reading this thread I quite.lol. I tried replacing few bad caps on my Samsung DTB-H260F tuner box(never again Samsung) ,but I didn't do a good job thanx to my shaky hands .I replaced 2 caps out of 11 i think. worked for a good 6 months then died again

[jmak48]

Thanks ADLou. I'm not sure yet if it's K-Mechanism but, for those who need it, I found it here: http://www.epanorama.net/sff/Video/Products/Panasonic_K_Mechanism_Align.pdf

[ADLou]

That's great, jmak48, this should get you further. Do you have the entire manual, or only chapter 4? If you have it, would you mind posting the whole thing? It is somewhat more detailed than the one I have for the G, and there are definitely some similarities between those mechanisms.

[zoobie]

did it come with a 100% money-back guarantee?
try clicking "ask a question" at the bottom of the eBay listing then "returns" to see what the seller's policy was
lots like to dump their trash on eBay with a no-return policy

[jmak48]

That's great, jmak48, this should get you further. Do you have the entire manual, or only chapter 4? If you have it, would you mind posting the whole thing? It is somewhat more detailed than the one I have for the G, and there are definitely some similarities between those mechanisms.

Sorry, that link was all I found. Any possibility the version you got is available for upload?

[ckytep]

Just joined to say that I recently got the service manual for the Panasonic K-mechanism.
I have uploaded it here:
http://www.fileserve.com/file/QbjG6sR
Maybe it can come in handy for someone.
And you should also be able to find it via Google by searching for "kmech-sm.pdf".

Maybe this manual of the G-mechanism can help too?:
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/13892/panasonic_g%20deck%20mech.html
(The download link is pretty far down with the text: "Download >> To download the file, please, click here ! << Download").

I have a Panasonic NV-HD610 that seems to need mechanical adjustments to work again. It worked nice a couple of years ago and now when I wanted to use it again it got stuck in FF/REW-mode. Had to do a manual recovery of the tape...

[HadYourPhil]

Unfortunately, with the recent collapse of Megaupload, I can not access the K-mechanism file in Fileserve... Could ou email it (or a usable link) to me?? Many thanks!!

Never mind... I found it!

[ElectricLow]

For anyone else dealing with the mechanism alignment of K-decks, be sure to check out these two absolutely outstanding videos on some old tech's Youtube channel:

Bottom mechanism mechanical timing and rotary encoder cleaning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eErlcvfD_Ds&list=UURx5TQd00NOjK5D7VB6pHyA&index=8

Top side mechanism alignment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIbOSKh0DcE&list=UURx5TQd00NOjK5D7VB6pHyA&index=12

I'm gonna use his guides for dealing with my Panasonic NV-FS200, even though it has the G-deck - things seem similar enough. He's got loads of other great stuff as well. Sounds like marketing - and it is, because he deserves it!