2012 talk about

[Johnnylee_hang]

i believe we were born to exinct on earth like the dino, but we out number god's plan... Some people get what they want before they died such as their careers and dreams, but alot of people don't.

After 2012 to 3000, I think - New life form will take place; There will not be a big life form. New life form will start off to the tiniest species to big.

Ur opinion, thoughts, comment?

[rallynavvie]

That English is your second language?

[freebird73717]

2012?

Isn't that just the latest disaster movie?

Sorry I don't put any stock into the line of thought that the world is coming to an end in 2012.

[T-Fish]

the movie should have been called 2220 instead of 2012 anyway
http://science.slashdot.org/submission/1100873/2012-a-Miscalculation-actual-calendar-ends-2220

[Noahtuck]

That English is your second language?

I have not laughed that hard in a couple of days!!!!!


I thought it was halibaba ? is that his user name ?
from the avatar, and i was thinking, WTF ?

Then after reading the OP and then yours, i looked at the username and realized it was not him.

[guns1inger]

2012 ? Aside from it being another Roland Emmerich CGI-fest, the date has absolutely no significance whatsoever. Anyone who believes in any of the end of the world bullshit that is going around is completely deluded.

So far there is no evidence for anything happening that year. What has been offered as evidence has all been crap, including the following;

1. The Mayan's predicted it. No, they didn't. There is no Mayan prophesy for 2012. Yes, if you chose a certain set of dates for your calculations the Mayan long date calendar does end on Dec 21 2012. However, as with all calendars (and the Mayans had several different calendars for different reasons), when it gets to the end, it simply starts again. Think about it. The calendar in my john ends on December 31st 2009. No-one is making a movie about that being the end of the world.

2. Nostrodamus predicted it. Nostrodamus never predicted a damn thing. Anything that has been credited to him falls into one of two camps. Either it was retro-fitted (usually very tenuously) to make it look like something he wrote came true, or the quote was never written by him in the first place. The Nostrodamus quote that went around after 911 was in fact written in part by a university senior to show just how easily it can be done a few years before the planes hit the towers. Some moron found it, attributed it to Nosrodamus, added the two lines that made it seem very accurate, and put it out on the internet where huge numbers of morons believed it was true.

3. Planet X is coming and will disrupt the orbit of the planets. Planet X does not exist. It was proposed many years ago that there had to be another planet to explain the odd orbits of the visible planets. Then Einstein came along with his theory of special relativity, solved the mystery, and proved that Planet X was bullshit. However, like so many other stupid ideas that science has proven to be untrue, there is a staunch cadre of loons who still promote it as fact. It's not.

4. The poles will reverse and the earth will split asunder. This actually has a little merit. Not much, but a little. It has been shown that at various times through the earth's 4.5+ billion year history (that's billion with a 'B', not 6 thousand, not 10 thousand, 4.5 + billion) the poles have reversed (north becomes south etc). This is not something that happens in an instant. It will take years, and will be detected well in advance. While it may play havoc with some instrumentation and some tools, it will not cause the earth to split down the middle or implode, and it will not cause the death of every living thing on it.

However, I will make this offer to any one who believes the world is going to end Dec 21 2012 or any other arbitrary date. Hell, if you think the aliens are going to invade or that revelations has started and the seven year countdown has begun. The offer is simple. You name the date, and sign a contact handing all your worldly possessions over to me as at that date. Put your money where your delusions are.

Otherwise stop the bullshit, and get in the effing sack )for that last reference, watch this vid : https://forum.videohelp.com/topic369542.html#1991583)

[rallynavvie]

I find it exceedingly sad that there are people I work with who are not worried about their finances or where life is taking them because they seriously believe that the apocalypse is happening in 2012. Seriously. However I'm a little jealous of the blissful ignorance they're living in; it must be a nice change of pace to current social norms.

I first heard about the Mayan long calendar dates a long time ago on a History channel show and it did mention 2012 as being the next new epoch on its calendar, but then there were more in later millennia. I didn't put much credence in it then. The hype they're stirring up for the movie is a viral campaign that, while creative, is done in poor taste. I've even heard of cults starting to form up which may lead to violence when they decide not to follow societies rules for the last year or two of their presumed existence.

[guns1inger]

Most of this pre-dates the film's marketing. Emmerich just saw an opening and exploited the hell out of it.

Dan Brown's books are just a watered down version of the Illuminati bullshit from the internet with some of the more wacky stuff, then turned into badly written prose.

I find the phenomena of conspiracy and end-of-times paranoia fascinating. The way people with this type of mindset can incorporate the latest pseudo-scientific bunk or wild story into the current conspiracy is amazing. And the structure of the delusion (and it is a delusion) is such that they cannot be dissuaded from it.

No evidence ? That's because "they" hid the evidence.

Evidence that directly contradicts the conspiracy ? You are part of the conspiracy and in cahoots with "them".

Everything reinforces the delusion.

The best part for me though is the fact that the conspirators always have vast resources and power, and can influence governments and industry, cover up wholesale massacres, change the news stories to hide their misdeeds, and do so in such as way that even the greatest minds on the planet cannot see it happening (assuming they aren't already in on it, of course). Yet some redneck yokel with less than a high school education can see it all clearly and knows exactly what is going on.

[gadgetguy]

The best part for me though is the fact that the conspirators always have vast resources and power, and can influence governments and industry, cover up wholesale massacres, change the news stories to hide their misdeeds, and do so in such as way that even the greatest minds on the planet cannot see it happening (assuming they aren't already in on it, of course). Yet some redneck yokel with less than a high school education can see it all clearly and knows exactly what is going on.

Well, of course. It takes the wisdom of a child to see that the emperor has no clothes.

[guns1inger]

Well, of course. It takes the wisdom of a child to see that the emperor has no clothes.

It takes a particular type of crazy to think that the emperor even exists . . . . . . . .

[El Heggunte]

Well, I myself do not believe most things that have been labeled as "conspiracy theories",
however, this does not mean that now I believe that "there are no such things as conspiracies".

The greatest strategy of the Devil is to make certain people think He does not exist.

[guns1inger]

The greatest strategy of the Devil is to make certain people think He does not exist.

At the risk of getting this post shut down . . . . .

One of the greatest strategies of religion is to make the uneducated believe that he does

[lordsmurf]

Back in the 80s, there was a Nostradamus TV special hosted by Orson Wells (?), and in it there was a prediction that around 1995 an Arab with a blue turban in East Europe would make the "New City" burn. That's about as close to 911 as I've ever seen. Sometimes I think TV gave Bin Laden the ideas to begin with. (Ever watch the Die Hard movies?)

The Mayan calendar isn't the only one to end. A few calendars stop around 2017-2020, and anything afterwards is "post history" -- if that was translated correctly. The Mayan calendar ending is easily argued. Some other calendars end around 3000.

It's not such much that the world would end, but how high do you really need to count if you'll be dead in 50 more years anyway? Or in the case of the Mayans, that they wouldn't be around anyway.

Pentacostals always think the world will end soon. End-times and religion are just too tied together.

guns1inger, good stuff.

[bendixG15]

I suppose for some people, it's going to be one helluva New Years eve party........

[redwudz]

Discussing religion will get this thread shut down.

Fair warning.

Moderator redwudz

[El Heggunte]

Both gadgetguy and I were speaking metaphorically.
This should be pretty self-evident.
Even though I am an atheist, I am not a "pseudo-skeptic".
It's very dangerous to have an ideology which can make me ignore the basic facts of History
(let's say, "there have never been such things as emperors"). :P

\ El Heggunte.

[guns1inger]

The true believers don't see metaphors, which makes them dangerous to use. To them, everything is literal.

I have no ideology. All I ask for is evidence. Give me facts, back them with evidence (hence making them facts), and I am happy.

As for atheism - on it's own it says nothing. I know too many atheists who believe some pretty weird and wacky stuff.

[El Heggunte]

I have no ideology.

It seems we do not use the same dictionary.

( End-of-discussion )

[Nitro89]

about the pole shift, will the effects be huge in regards to natural disasters? How would one survive?

[guns1inger]

It depends on what you mean by 'pole shift'.

The location of the poles are not constant now. They have been observed to shift by small amounts, and some scientists believe that even weather patterns can affect the absolute position of the poles. However these shift are so small that they pose no real issues at all.

Polar Wander, on the other-hand, is a theory that the earth can and does, under certain conditions, shift radically. The theory is that large changes in the distribution of mass across the surface of the planet can cause the planet to roll to right itself and to shift the mass closer to the equator. The type of events that might cause polar wander include abnormal build up of mass at the current poles, an asteroid collision of suitable magnitude, a super-massive volcano erupting away from the equator, and major tectonic movement. In fact it has been reported that the recent earthquake in Chile was large enough (8.8 on the old richter scale) to shift the earth up to 3 inches (8 cm) off it's previous axis, and slow time by just over a millionth of a second. As you can see, these are major events, and while they will cause problems in the localised areas, the rest of the earth may not notice the shift at all. What is unknown is what the cumulative effect of these shifts over time might be, assume none are self-righting.

True Polar Wander is a relative shift caused by the earth's crust and mantle shifting around the iron core. The poles themselves remain in place, while the surface shifts relative to these positions. Again, the shift if nominal, and can only be detected by GPS satellites because of the accuracy required.

The big one is magnetic reversal. This is where north and south exchange places, and is one of the many catastrophes depicted in the 2012 movie. There is evidence to suggest that this has happened in the past, but it was some 800 millions years ago, and it may have happened in a cycle prior to that as well. This has led some to suggest that we are overdue for it to occur again. Assuming, for the moment, that we are overdue, it would mean we have been overdue for several hundred million years, and it hasn't happened yet. It also would not be a sudden change. The more extreme reputable estimates of the effect, should it occur, suggest it would take approximately 5000 years for a shift to take place. During this time, the magnetic field on the earth would later radically, becoming more complicated and rendering current magnetic based navigation useless. The more conservative estimates put the time required for a full reversal at a million years or more. The disparity comes from being able to observe only historical effects and trying to interpret a theory that best fits the data. As there has been no polar shift during a preiod in which we could record actual data, it is all supposition.

[Nitro89]

I read somewhere that recently during a tsunami, one of poles completely disappeared from the scales.

[El Heggunte]

I read somewhere that recently during a tsunami, one of poles completely disappeared from the scales.

[citation needed]

[guns1inger]

I read somewhere that recently during a tsunami, one of poles completely disappeared from the scales.

[citation needed]

Very much so.

[Nitro89]

sorry, it wasn't a Tsunami, it was the Haiti earthquake this year.

[stiltman]

2012 ? Aside from it being another Roland Emmerich CGI-fest, the date has absolutely no significance whatsoever. Anyone who believes in any of the end of the world bullshit that is going around is completely deluded.

Otherwise stop the bullshit, and get in the effing sack )for that last reference, watch this vid : https://forum.videohelp.com/topic369542.html#1991583)

Dang you're a real stick in the mud

[deadrats]

i believe we were born to exinct on earth like the dino, but we out number god's plan... Some people get what they want before they died such as their careers and dreams, but alot of people don't.

After 2012 to 3000, I think - New life form will take place; There will not be a big life form. New life form will start off to the tiniest species to big.

Ur opinion, thoughts, comment?

i don't know what's sadder: the fact that you structured your post so as to reflect the speech patterns of an asian person, presumably chinese based on your chosen screen name, or the fact that i actually understood the thought you were trying to convey.

i wish i could address the core belief that drives your assertion, however the rules of this forum prevent me from doing so.

thus allow me to attack the premise from another angle: it is ridiculous to assume that any species comes into existence, regardless of the mechanism that is the source of it's creation, simply to die out after a certain period of time. yes, species have died out and continue to do so and yes new species are also being discovered/appear, but there is no evidence to suggest any sort of pattern to these extinctions/genesis.

in so far as the 2012 sub-plot to your hypothesis, all i will say is that despite what the mayans, nostradamus, hollywood or anyone else would have you believe, there is no evidence that anyone can predict the future with any high degree of certainty, primarily because it hasn't happened yet.

now there are times when we can use past experiences/data points to make an educated guess as to a likely outcome, but to know with 100 percent certainty that anything will definitely transpire? no way.

i should also point out one thing to you, unlike all previous dominant species that have existed and died out, mankind is the only one with a level of intelligence to be able to be able to change his environment, in any significant scale, to suit his needs. whereas all other species had to rely on existing structures in nature for shelter, man was able to make his own shelter. whereas all other species had to rely on food sources within it's habitat, man was able to import food sources from other areas, man was able to cultivate and grow food source and store them rather than waiting until he was hungry to hunt. and whereas all other species where at the mercy of the elements when it got really hot or cold, man was able to make clothing and cooling apparatuses to counteract the weather.

lastly i leave you with this: cockroaches have been around for millions of years, sharks have been around for about 65 million years, there are plant species that are also that old, i find it difficult to believe that cockroaches could survive all the various ecological changes that this planet has seen and man somehow won't be able to.

edit: i should point out that i am of the mind set that the OP structured his post with the way he did because he was trying to imitate how an non-native asian person speaks american english and i'm basing this assumption on the fact that he used a nom de plume that seems very stereotypically asian in a mocking fashion (johnny lee hang?).

[deadrats]

sorry, double post.

[deadrats]

I read somewhere that recently during a tsunami, one of poles completely disappeared from the scales.

what does that mean, the "poles disappeared from the scales"? what "scales"? what "poles"? why were they being weighed? and wtf are you on?!?

[deadrats]

Dan Brown's books are just a watered down version of the Illuminati bullshit from the internet with some of the more wacky stuff, then turned into badly written prose.

note that instead of addressing everything you said i am just using the above quote as a symbolic representation of your general mindset.

with regards to the illuminati, the masons, the gnostics, et al, they existed and still exist. now if you wish to question their level of influence with regards to various historic events, that is a legit objection. but to discount everything as paranoid conspiracy "nutjobness", when the writings of various groups exist, that outline their belief systems, is ludicrous. in fact there is amble evidence in the layout of washington dc to suggest that the architect(s) behind the city's layout was very familiar with free masonry, astrology, christianity and wiccan belief systems, this isn't some paranoid conspiracy bullshit, this is obvious to anyone with a decent level of education, functioning eyes and the ability to reason.

i studied judo from a guy that was a free mason, and while he wouldn't divulge any masonic secrets to me (since i wasn't a member he wasn't allowed to discuss certain topics) if you spent any time with the man and spoke to him you could see a certain outlook on life that was amazingly consistent with some hollywood portrayals of free masonry.

i leave you with this thought: none are so blind as those that will not see.

simply because you are incapable of thinking on grand scales does not mean that others are so limited in their thought processes and don't have grand plans. it also doesn't mean that people of like mind, with a shared vision for the world, didn't and don't work together to achieve a desired result.

and by definition, that is a conspiracy.

[guns1inger]

i studied judo from a guy that was a free mason, and while he wouldn't divulge any masonic secrets to me (since i wasn't a member he wasn't allowed to discuss certain topics) if you spent any time with the man and spoke to him you could see a certain outlook on life that was amazingly consistent with some hollywood portrayals of free masonry.

And ? Anecdotes mean nothing. My father and I used to play sports with a a couple of guys were were masons and guess what ? They were just a couple of guys.

I have read, and I have studied - you are not the only one who understands the ancient art of letters - and I am yet to see any evidence. I do know that there os often a large gap between reality and what is portrayed by Hollywood (although I will say that "2012" did manage cover most of the internet bases. It could almost claim to be the first movie actually written by the internet), and what is believed by large groups of people.

The human brain is a pattern seeking device, and it will find patterns everywhere if it is not directed properly. Name any three places on earth, set the right mind to it, and they will find all sorts of coincidences and serendipitous connections. Put the wrong mind on it and they will find the connections that show that the Venusians were here 5000 years ago building pyramids.

I never claimed that theses organisations exist. I can say that all the ranting and writings and videos of the likes of Alex Jones don't amount to a pinch of real evidence for anything beyond that basic fact.

I will leave you with two other points

1. David Icke is a good example of the fine line between paranoid conspiracy and outright lunacy

2. You need a new avatar. How about one of these