how to convert 25 frame rate subs to 30 frame rate subs??

[caesarhawy]

Hi There...
I have a scindler's list NTSC dvd and the frame rate is 30,and I want to add a subtitle to it
but I couldn't find any 30 frame rate subtitles on any sites they are all 25 or 23.976 so what can I do to convert a 25 frame rate subtitle to 30 frame rate subtitle and would the convertion be usefull, I mean will the timing of each sentence be right?? for all I need is the timing not the sentences..


THANKS IN ADVANCE

CAESAR

[manono]

Hi-

23.976fps subs is what you want. Either find some at that framerate, or slow down the 25fps ones. Do not convert the 25fps ones to 30fps (or 29.97).

[proufo]

I have a PAL DVD with subtitles.

Will convert the VOBs to NTSC and re-author the DVD, and I want to incorporate the original subtitles.

Any ideas?

I don't have the subtitles in any editable format, just the PAL, 25 fps non-interlaced DVD.

Thanks in advance.

[manono]

Hi-

You have 2 good choices and other lousy ones. One good way is to slow the video to 23.976fps, reencode, and apply Pulldown to output 29.97fps. This will mean slowing the audio also, and converting the subs to 23.976fps. The sub part is easy, as you can make IDX/SUB format subs, and then slow them using the Sub Cutter utility that comes with the VobSub package. Then you can use SubToSup to convert them back to SUP format subs, ready for authoring in a few apps, including Muxman and IFOEdit. Or OCR them to SSA or SRT subs, also slow the framerate, and they'll be ready for authoring in a few other apps.

The second good choice is to resize for NTSC resolution (720x480), but keep the 25fps framerate, keep the audio and subs unchanged, and run DGPUlldown on the video for 25->29.97fps when all done reencoding the video.

You can extract the original subs in SUP format (as well as the audio, video, and original PAL chapters by framecount) with the use of PGCDemux.

Unless you know what you're doing, and use a decent encoder, sometimes the encoder will convert directly from 25fps to 29.97fps encoded frames per second, often blending the fields/frames together. The length of the video will remain unchanged, you can use the same audio and subs, but the video looks and plays like crap, in my opinion, and it's not a very efficient way to do the conversion.

[Pinstripes23]

The second good choice is to resize for NTSC resolution (720x480), but keep the 25fps framerate, keep the audio and subs unchanged, and run DGPUlldown on the video for 25->29.97fps when all done reencoding the video.

This is the easiest way. Though you may have to reposition the subs using dvdsubedit cuz of the change in resolution.

[proufo]

Thanks manono and Pinstripes23!

Will get to it. Zillions of CPU cycles await me.

[proufo]

The second good choice is to resize for NTSC resolution (720x480), but keep the 25fps framerate, keep the audio and subs unchanged, and run DGPUlldown on the video for 25->29.97fps when all done reencoding the video.

Hi again.

Would you be so kind in providing further handholding with this?

What should I use for resizing? VirtualDub Mod?

NOTE: The original video is letterboxed. Should I make any adjustments because of that when resizing?

Many thanks in advance and regards.

[proufo]

Hello again.

I just realized I don't have the HD space to go MPG --> AVI, nor will I have it for 30 days or so.

I can use Procoder to go MPG-->MPG but the files will grow a lot as I use the HQ settings. Will need then to split the converted file to make it fit into several DVD5. That's not a problem.

But I wonder how can I split the original SUP file and mux partial subtitles files.

Many, many thanks in advance.

[manono]

Hi-

What should I use for resizing? VirtualDub Mod?

The best way is to frameserve using an AviSynth script file with the resize in it. You can have it made pretty much automatically by using FitCD. You can resize in VDubMod, if that's all you know.

You want to convert a PAL DVD to NTSC, and you haven't any idea even how to resize? You're a very brave man. This is a difficult project. You sure you don't want to start with something easier first?

I just realized I don't have the HD space to go MPG --> AVI, nor will I have it for 30 days or so.

I don't understand. Why would you want to make an AVI? Aren't you going from PAL DVD to NTSC DVD?

I can use Procoder to go MPG-->MPG but the files will grow a lot as I use the HQ settings.

The size will grow only as large as the bitrate you set allows them to.

Will need then to split the converted file to make it fit into several DVD5.

Why? Aren't you going for a single DVD5 as the end result?

But I wonder how can I split the original SUP file and mux partial subtitles files.

You can't. You'd have to convert them into a different splitable sub format and then back again.

[proufo]

The best way is to frameserve using an AviSynth script file with the resize in it. You can have it made pretty much automatically by using FitCD. You can resize in VDubMod, if that's all you know.

You want to convert a PAL DVD to NTSC, and you haven't any idea even how to resize? You're a very brave man. This is a difficult project. You sure you don't want to start with something easier first?

LOL! I have come a long way, but I learn on a need-to basis.

I am still in fear of frame-serving, AviSynth and scripts. Will check FitCD.

I don't understand. Why would you want to make an AVI? Aren't you going from PAL DVD to NTSC DVD?

If I use VideoDub, I'd need to go to AVI and recode again to MPG, right? I thought that was hinted at in the replies. I suppose that I don't need the AVI if I do frame serving but I'm avoiding that, perhaps foolishly, for now.

The size will grow only as large as the bitrate you set allows them to.

Why? Aren't you going for a single DVD5 as the end result?

Right, but in my limited experience, 30 fps requires larger files to keep the same quality. Larger files but less flicker.

I found that I can extract individual DUP files for each chapter so I don't need to split a large one. In fact, that initial option wasn't possible.

I will end up with the original audio and titles files, and a converted video file. Hope I'll be able to put them back together with little hassle.

Thanks for your kind support.

[proufo]

For some reason the demuxing (PgcDemux) of the chapters creates video files that skip a lot of frames. The audio files' length are OK and presumably the SUPs.

They are shorter that the audio files, the starting and ending points are OK but they are about 2/3 shorter (20 minutes vs. 60).

[Pinstripes23]

Load the movie VOB files into DGIndex and see if you have the same problem.

[manono]

Hi-

If I use VideoDub, I'd need to go to AVI and recode again to MPG, right?

No, not if you frameserve it out of VDub(Mod) and into the encoder. You do have to configure it to frameserve first. There's a guide on this site somewhere for that. If you can't find it, then the first part of this guide explains it:

http://www.doom9.org/virtualdub_procedures.htm

Right, but in my limited experience, 30 fps requires larger files to keep the same quality. Larger files but less flicker.

You won't be encoding for 30fps, but for either 24fps or 25fps, depending on which of the 2 methods you use. Afterwards you apply pulldown to have the encoder output 29.97fps. Pulldown adds a bunch of flagging (software, sort of) to the video stream telling it how to output the duplicate fields to make it 29.97fps. You store 23.976fps or 25fps progressive frames on the DVD, but output 29.97fps interlaced frames.

I found that I can extract individual DUP files for each chapter so I don't need to split a large one. In fact, that initial option wasn't possible.

Yes, you can extract by chapter, but it's a waste of time, in my opinion. You really should get yourself another hard drive. They're dirt cheap at the moment:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6963565&ref=39&loc=01&type=product&cmp=+...=1099384455782
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?c=1&b=g&u=c&qp=0&oid=70860&AID=1038086...%26oid%3D70860
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?&ref=cj&pfp=cj&product_code=304907
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136003&CMP=AFC-TechBargains

Just some of the current weekend sales.

For some reason the demuxing (PgcDemux) of the chapters creates video files that skip a lot of frames. The audio files' length are OK and presumably the SUPs.

I assume you're getting the video length by playing it in some player. Well, don't. The players are often wrong about that. All the frames are there, trust me.

[proufo]

Thanks again, manono and Pinstripe23.

Will try to find some peace of mind this week to set up frameserving. I'm getting more and more attracted to the concept of doing pulldown to go from 25 to 29.97.

BTW, DGIndex indicates the video does have the proper length (thanks, PS23!). It also indicates it is 25 fps INTERLACED, not progressive. Any caveat because of that?

Thanks in advance.

[manono]

Hi-

It also indicates it is 25 fps INTERLACED, not progressive. Any caveat because of that?

Not really. Maybe over 90% of PAL DVDs are encoded as interlaced (which is what DGIndex tells you), but have progressive content. If it really is interlaced, then you have big problems, and not being able to use DGPulldown is only one of them. You can only apply pulldown to progressive material. So, go over the frames and see if you can find any interlacing. If this is a movie, then almost certainly (but not positively) it's progressive, and you can ignore DGIndex.

[proufo]

OK, I demuxed the streams using PgcDemux, converted the video portion to 29.97 NTSC using Canopus, remuxed using MuxMan and positioned the subtitles with DVD SubEdit. Quite straightforward.

Quite pedestrian too. For example, I repositioned the subs for 4:3 LB and they are too high for real WS. Also I split the PAL DVD into THREE NTSC DVDs to avoid risks regarding video quality. I'll try to learn more for future projects.

Thanks to all the developers that create these utilities and provide them for free. And to manono and all for their support here.