VCDEasy NOT easy, menus not working correctly. Please help a newbie!

[2397to2997]

Please help me with a problem w/ SVCD menus in VCDEasy.

I have:

1. Menu -(An animated menu w/ background music)
2. Movie 1 (main movie)
3. Movie 2 (a short movie related to movie 1)
4. Movie 3 (a short movie related to movie 1)

My DVD Player is a Philips DVP 642 (supports SVCD & PBC).

I want to have:

1. When you put in the SVCD, the animated menu starts and plays infinitely until a selection is made (DONE, works correctly).

2. Press 1 (press 1, hit "ok") at the menu, movie 1 plays (DONE, works correctly).

3. Press 2 at the menu, movie 2 plays (PROBLEM, it doesn't play movie 2, it plays movie 1 instead).

4. Press 3 at the menu, movie 3 plays (DONE, works correctly).

5. After playing the movie (1, 2, or 3), the animated menu is displayed. (PROBLEM, after movie 1, movies 2 plays. After movie 2, movie 2 plays. After movie 3 plays, the menu is displayed.

6. Use the Next Track and Previous Track to cycle through the movie during playback.
a. Order should be menu > movie 1 > movie 2 > movie 3 > menu (thus forming a loop)
b. PROBLEM (If you start at the menu, you have limited cycling, Previous Track at the menu does nothing, NEXT, cycles to movie 1, then movie 2, then movie 3, BUT after movie 3 NEXT does nothing.
c. If you don't start using the NEXT and PREVIOUS Track until you start it cycles though the 3 movies, which is fine w/ me.

My main questions:

1. I have NO CLUE as to why pressing 2 starts movie 1, instead of movie 2.
2. It looks like I can't have the NEXT Track and PREVIOUS Track cycle though the movie AND have the movies return to the menu after the movies are completed.

Here are my setting on the interactive tab.

=====

Menu
=====
Play forever
Use numeric keys, overwrite default assignment, reactivity=immediate
Previous: Menu
Next: Movie 1
Return: VCD End
Default: Event Disabled

Key 1 = Plays Movie 1
Key 2 = Plays Movie 2
Key 3 = Plays Movie 3

=====

Movie 1
=====
Play once, wait 0 seconds, then on timeout = Menu
The boxes are cleared (disabled) for: numeric keys, overwrite default assignment. Reactivity = immediate.
Previous: Movie 1
Next: Movie 2
Return: Menu
Default: Event Disabled

=====

Movie 2
=====
Play once, wait 0 seconds, then on timeout = Menu
The boxes are cleared (disabled) for: numeric keys, overwrite default assignment. Reactivity = immediate.
Previous: Movie 2
Next: Movie 3
Return: Menu
Default: Event Disabled

=====

Movie 3
=====
Play once, wait 0 seconds, then on timeout = Menu
The boxes are cleared (disabled) for: numeric keys, overwrite default assignment. Reactivity = immediate.
Previous: Movie 3
Next: Movie 1
Return: Menu
Default: Event Disabled

=====

TIA.

Peace.

[adam]

Its difficult to tell for sure that you have it set up correctly, it would be MUCH easier if you took screengraps of each item instead...but it does look like you are doing everything right. Unfortunately I think this may be a limitation of your player since those are pretty basic functions going wrong, like playing movie 1 instead of 2. Despite the fact that Philips invented the SVCD format, their players are actually known for being some of the worst when it comes to supporting SVCD interactive features.

One thing I did notice though that may just be a typo... You say that if you hit Prev at main menu it does nothing, but then you show that on menu you have prev set to menu...itself. If you want it to go to movie 3 and create a loop, you need to change that to movie 3.

Everything that you want to do is definitely possible with VCDEasy.

The first thing I'd do is try playing your SVCD on your computer using SVCD compatible playback software like WinDVD or SthDVD (you'll still need a separate DVD decoder.) If it functions correctly than its definitely your hardware player.

One thing you might want to try is joining all of your videos into one track and then using chapter points to separate them instead. There's no reason why you should normally have to do this of course, it just may get around some sort of bug in your player.

Also, try downloading my sample SVCD disc image from my guide that I linked you to in another thread. It probably contains all of the same functions that you are trying to achieve, and I have playtested it on many players. It was authored in VCDEasy and I'm positive the functions are set correctly. If it doesn't function properly than its definitely a quirk with your dvd player.

[jman98]

Are animated menus even allowed for VCD/SVCD? I may be wrong, but I thought that neither format allowed for animated menus.

I see that the orginal poster has a Philips DVP-642. I do too. You should be aware that this player is VERY fussy (I cannot emphasize the word VERY enough here) about SVCDs. Although made by Philips, this player does not fully implement the specs for SVCD. For example, it ignores secondary audio tracks. If subtitles are on your SVCD, it will pick the first one and play it and it cannot be turned off! Try your SVCD on another player and see if it behaves correctly. I can't rule out the possibility that the problem with your SVCD is really a firmware issue with the DVP-642. Adam is dead on that this player is notorious for not supporting SVCD interactive features.

[adam]

Yes animated menus are allowed for both VCD and SVCD.

[Cornucopia]

Some Notes:

I would have the Checkbox for "Overwrite this default assignment" CHECKED for the numerical keys, and I would hardcode #1, #2, and #3 keys for ALL segments/sequences. It makes it more consistent and is just good UI programming. That way, no matter where you are, if you press #1, you'll go to Movie1, etc.
I have a feeling that there may be a bug in the assumed assignment when left as default. Hopefully, doing the above would avoid that.



@play ends, you have WAIT 0seconds, which isn't the default of 2sec. Some players have difficulty with this, as the multiple tracks actually are written with a 2 sec gap which you're telling it to skip as opposed to just playing on through.



You didn't specify, but my guess is that you didn't UNCHECK the "Sequence/segment" checkbox in the Main window. This means that your MENU is a sequence as well. It would default to this since you're using a Motion Menu (not a still), but it's just good programming to make it a segment (uncheck). This should be done BEFORE adding any other items and BEFORE adjusting the navigation logic. I don't think this should have anything to do with the Move2 problem, but you never know...
This way, only your movies are actual "tracks".



I would have keyed it this way (more according to what you mentioned in your intentions):

Menu
Previous: Movie3
Next: Movie1

Movie1
Previous: Menu
Next: Movie2

Movie2
Previous: Movie1
Next: Movie3

Movie3
Previous: Movie2
Next: Menu


adam is right about player inconsistencies, so you should ALWAYS check playback with multple players (both hardware and software).

HTH,
Scott

[2397to2997]

Its difficult to tell for sure that you have it set up correctly, it would be MUCH easier if you took screengraps of each item instead..

Here they are. I replaced the movie's actual names w/ movie 1, movie 2, movie 3 and menu 1.










Note: I left the "Options" & "Chapters" at the default settings (I did NOT touch them).

I don't know what happened to the image quality, but the VideoHelp forum must downgrade the quality (Sorry).

Peace.

[2397to2997]

Some Notes:

I would have the Checkbox for "Overwrite this default assignment" CHECKED for the numerical keys, and I would hardcode #1, #2, and #3 keys for ALL segments/sequences. It makes it more consistent and is just good UI programming. That way, no matter where you are, if you press #1, you'll go to Movie1, etc.
I have a feeling that there may be a bug in the assumed assignment when left as default. Hopefully, doing the above would avoid that.

I don't want the numeric keys activated during movie playback, only at the menu. I want to avoid the possibility of someone mistakenly hitting the number key on the remote quitting the current movie. There are NO chapters, and one of the movies is 20 minutes long, so I didn't want the numeric key activated.

If someone wants to change movies during playback, they can use the NEXT track and PREVIOUS track buttons, or go to the menu.

@play ends, you have WAIT 0seconds, which isn't the default of 2sec. Some players have difficulty with this, as the multiple tracks actually are written with a 2 sec gap which you're telling it to skip as opposed to just playing on through.

I used the settings posted in the guide on the vcdeasy website. It says to use 0 sec. I don't think the 0 sec. is the problem, but thanks for the suggestion.

http://www.vcdeasy.org/modules.php?name=_Guides&id=DVDRip_Extract

You didn't specify, but my guess is that you didn't UNCHECK the "Sequence/segment" checkbox in the Main window. This means that your MENU is a sequence as well. It would default to this since you're using a Motion Menu (not a still), but it's just good programming to make it a segment (uncheck). This should be done BEFORE adding any other items and BEFORE adjusting the navigation logic. I don't think this should have anything to do with the Move2 problem, but you never know...
This way, only your movies are actual "tracks".

Could you elaborate on the above? I don't see an option for "Sequence/segment" in the Main window.

I would have keyed it this way (more according to what you mentioned in your intentions):

Menu
Previous: Movie3
Next: Movie1

Movie1
Previous: Menu
Next: Movie2

Movie2
Previous: Movie1
Next: Movie3

Movie3
Previous: Movie2
Next: Menu

I used the sequence recommended in the guide on the VCDEasy website.


http://www.vcdeasy.org/modules.php?name=_Guides&id=DVDRip_Extract

adam is right about player inconsistencies, so you should ALWAYS check playback with multple players (both hardware and software).

I wish I had a software SVCD player or another DVD Player that supports SVCD, but I don't. The other 2 DVD players, that I have access to, can't even play VCDs.

Peace.

[2397to2997]

...but it does look like you are doing everything right. Unfortunately I think this may be a limitation of your player since those are pretty basic functions going wrong, like playing movie 1 instead of 2. Despite the fact that Philips invented the SVCD format, their players are actually known for being some of the worst when it comes to supporting SVCD interactive features.

One thing I did notice though that may just be a typo... You say that if you hit Prev at main menu it does nothing, but then you show that on menu you have prev set to menu...itself. If you want it to go to movie 3 and create a loop, you need to change that to movie 3.

Okay, I will have to look into the changing that setting to movie 3 at the menu (too tired to check now).

The first thing I'd do is try playing your SVCD on your computer using SVCD compatible playback software like WinDVD or SthDVD (you'll still need a separate DVD decoder.) If it functions correctly than its definitely your hardware player.

One thing you might want to try is joining all of your videos into one track and then using chapter points to separate them instead. There's no reason why you should normally have to do this of course, it just may get around some sort of bug in your player.

I don't have another DVD player that plays SVCD (or even VCD), and I don't have a software SVCD player.

And I definitely want to avoid having to use chapters.

What I don't understand is this, I tried earlier w/ static menus w/ Nero 5.5's SVCD authoring program, and the menus created by Nero work fine on my Philips DVP 642. Pressing 2 on the menu created by Nero, plays movie 2. So I don't think it's the Philips DVP 642, since the menus created by Nero works perfectly. I believe that problem lies in VCDEasy, so I must have something NOT setup correctly OR VCDEasy is doing something very different from Nero and/or VCDEasy just doesn't work.

Also, try downloading my sample SVCD disc image from my guide that I linked you to in another thread. It probably contains all of the same functions that you are trying to achieve, and I have playtested it on many players. It was authored in VCDEasy and I'm positive the functions are set correctly. If it doesn't function properly than its definitely a quirk with your dvd player.

Another good suggestion, I may try that later. But first, why would the menu created by Nero work perfectly on the Philips DVP 642, but the VCDEasy menus don't work correctly?

TIA.

Peace.

[Cornucopia]

When you add an mpeg asset to the main window, it scans it and then adds it to its list.

If it's a motion/video clip, it automatically adds it in as a sequence.
If it's a stills clip, it automatically adds it in as a segment.

(S)VCD specs allow for motion clips to be included either as a sequence (residing as one of Tracks 2-99), or as a segment (residing as 1 or more sectors within Track 1 which is also the filesystem track). Still clips are only allowed to be added as segments.

The choice for placement of motion clips depends on what they're gonna be used for. It makes perfect sense using motion menus as segments.

To change this, you uncheck(or check if you want to undo) the box to the left of the asset listed in the MAIN window. If you hover long enough, you'll get a tooltip telling you what it referes to.

.........

Ok, you don't have to have numeric keys available for ALL assets, but I still think you should "Override" the default for the menu and manually put in the linkage for Movies 1, 2 and 3.

.........

The guide was just an example of one way to author a disc, not THE RECOMMENDED way, and certainly not the ONLY way. I'm suggesting a different way which, hopefully, will more fully realize your intentions.

Try it. Or Don't.

Scott

[adam]

SthDVD is a great and fully functional free software SVCD player, you just need a DVD decoder. If you have any software dvd player installed already than you already have the required decoder. If not you can use install a trial version of WinDVD or PowerDVD and then SthDVD should work.

[Cornucopia]

You might still have the XML output for your original authored disc, in which case you could post it. It would say explicitly whether your #2 key was actually supposed to be going to Movie2 or not.

Scott

[2397to2997]

You might still have the XML output for your original authored disc, in which case you could post it. It would say explicitly whether your #2 key was actually supposed to be going to Movie2 or not.

Scott

Here you go. I didn't know how to get VCDEasy's XML Viewer to point to the file to open it, so I had to use Windows Notepad.

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE videocd PUBLIC "-//GNU//DTD VideoCD//EN" "http://www.gnu.org/software/vcdimager/videocd.dtd">


<videocd xmlns="http://www.gnu.org/software/vcdimager/1.0/" class="svcd" version="1.0">
<option name="update scan offsets" value="true"/>
<option name="relaxed aps" value="false"/>
<info>
<album-id></album-id>
<volume-count>1</volume-count>
<volume-number>1</volume-number>
<restriction>0</restriction>
</info>
<pvd>
<volume-id>VOLUME_NAME</volume-id>
<system-id>CD-RTOS CD-BRIDGE</system-id>
<application-id></application-id>
<preparer-id/>
<publisher-id>VCDEASY_V1152</publisher-id>
</pvd>
<filesystem>
<folder>
<name>SEGMENT</name>
</folder>
</filesystem>
<sequence-items>
<sequence-item src="C:\Menu\SVCD Menu\Menu 1.mpg" id="Sequence-0001-01">
<default-entry id="Chapter-0001-01"/>
</sequence-item>
<sequence-item src="C:\SVCD\Movie 1.mpg" id="Sequence-0002-01">
<default-entry id="Chapter-0002-01"/>
</sequence-item>
<sequence-item src="C:\SVCD\Movie 2.mpg" id="Sequence-0003-01">
<default-entry id="Chapter-0003-01"/>
</sequence-item>
<sequence-item src="C:\SVCD\Movie 3.mpg" id="Sequence-0004-01">
<default-entry id="Chapter-0004-01"/>
</sequence-item>
</sequence-items>
<pbc>
<selection id="Selection-000">
<bsn>1</bsn>
<prev ref="Selection-000"/>
<next ref="Selection-001"/>
<return ref="Selection-end"/>
<loop jump-timing="immediate">0</loop>
<play-item ref="Sequence-0001-01"/>
<select ref="Selection-001"/>
<select ref="Selection-002"/>
<select ref="Selection-003"/>
</selection>
<selection id="Selection-001">
<prev ref="Selection-001"/>
<next ref="Selection-002"/>
<return ref="Selection-000"/>
<timeout ref="Selection-000"/>
<wait>0</wait>
<loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
<play-item ref="Sequence-0002-01"/>
</selection>
<selection id="Selection-002">
<prev ref="Selection-002"/>
<next ref="Selection-003"/>
<return ref="Selection-000"/>
<timeout ref="Selection-000"/>
<wait>0</wait>
<loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
<play-item ref="Sequence-0003-01"/>
</selection>
<selection id="Selection-003">
<prev ref="Selection-003"/>
<next ref="Selection-001"/>
<return ref="Selection-000"/>
<timeout ref="Selection-000"/>
<wait>0</wait>
<loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
<play-item ref="Sequence-0004-01"/>
</selection>
<endlist id="Selection-end" rejected="true"/>
</pbc>
</videocd>

Hopefully you can figure it out. I just hit the "go" button and VCDEasy generated the XML file, cue file, and bin file.

TIA.

Peace.

[2397to2997]

Thanks for you quick reply. I appreciate the feedback, because I don't know how to get the menu(s) to work correctly.

If it's a motion/video clip, it automatically adds it in as a sequence.
If it's a stills clip, it automatically adds it in as a segment.

(S)VCD specs allow for motion clips to be included either as a sequence (residing as one of Tracks 2-99), or as a segment (residing as 1 or more sectors within Track 1 which is also the filesystem track). Still clips are only allowed to be added as segments.

The choice for placement of motion clips depends on what they're gonna be used for. It makes perfect sense using motion menus as segments.

So what's the advantage of making the animated menu a segment rather than a sequence? If I change the animated menu to a segment, will it still play the background music when the menu is displayed?

To change this, you uncheck(or check if you want to undo) the box to the left of the asset listed in the MAIN window. If you hover long enough, you'll get a tooltip telling you what it referes to.

VCDEasy won't let me uncheck the box. I tried to follow your recommendation, but I cannot uncheck the box.

So what's the advantage of making the animated menu a segment rather than a sequence? If I change the animated menu to a segment, will it still play the background music when the menu is displayed?

The guide was just an example of one way to author a disc, not THE RECOMMENDED way, and certainly not the ONLY way. I'm suggesting a different way which, hopefully, will more fully realize your intentions.

Try it. Or Don't.

Okay, if I use your suggested method, can you describe how that sequence will behave?

The guide had NEXT = the next movie in the sequence, and PREVIOUS = the current movie; that formed a "loop" (according to the author) that allowed you to sequence though the menus w/ the NEXT Track and PREVIOUS Track keys. Hitting Return = Menu for all the movies, hitting Return = End VCD at the menu (otherwise, according to the author, you have no way of ending the SVCD). All movies are SUPPOSED to return to the menu after the movie is done playing.

So what will happen differently when I adopt you changes? Sorry for my ignorance, I am a newbie.

TIA.

Peace.

[2397to2997]

I see that the orginal poster has a Philips DVP-642. I do too. You should be aware that this player is VERY fussy (I cannot emphasize the word VERY enough here) about SVCDs. Although made by Philips, this player does not fully implement the specs for SVCD. For example, it ignores secondary audio tracks. If subtitles are on your SVCD, it will pick the first one and play it and it cannot be turned off! Try your SVCD on another player and see if it behaves correctly. I can't rule out the possibility that the problem with your SVCD is really a firmware issue with the DVP-642. Adam is dead on that this player is notorious for not supporting SVCD interactive features.

I created a SVCD w/ Nero 5.5 and the menu(s) created by Nero work perfectly, so I don't think the Philips DVP-642 is at fault.

Also, I have not read reports in the Yahoo Group for the Philips DVP 642 about problems w/ the SVCD Menu(s). In fact, I don't recall reading any report about problems w/ SVCDs in the Yahoo Group for the Philips DVP 642 (with ANY FIRMWARE).

If Nero 5.5 can produce perfectly working menu(s) on the Philips DVP 642, then the DVD Player is NOT at fault.

The problem is w/ VCDEasy, or the way I setup the SVCD menus in VCDEasy. That's why I'm posting here, so someone can point out what I did wrong in authoring the SVCD.

Peace.

[2397to2997]

Update:

I think I have solved the odd behavior of the menu(s).

First, some background. I got some needed rest, then reviewed Adam's guide that he posted in the earlier post. The guide is the same guide as the guide on the VCDEasy website. I read all the posts, and replied to them all. Then I tried some of the suggestions, but VCDEasy wouldn't let me uncheck the box on the main tab for segment/sequence, as Cornucopia suggested. In frustration, I decided to watch the video to determine if VCDEasy had done anything funny to them in creating the ISO file. I noticed that the numeric keys seemed to work correctly, which is odd, since the numeric keys were flakey earlier. I figured it must be because I used the NEXT and PREVIOUS Track keys earlier, and I had NOT used them this time. So as I played around w/ the menus, to investigate further, I noticed something ...

=====

Whenever I pressed the disc menu button on the remote, to get back to the main menu, the DVP 642 was TOGGLING THE PBC ON AND OFF!!! The words "PLAY" along w/ "PBC ON" or "PBC OFF" VERY BRIEFLY flashed on the screen when I hit the menu button.

=====

Of course, I had hit the menu button numerous times in testing earlier this morning. But as I concentrated on the playback behavior, I did NOT notice the "ON" and "OFF", just the "PLAY" and "PBC".

=====

So IT WAS THE Philips DVP 642 after all. I don't remember reading anything about the disc menu key toggling the PBC on and off in the product manual.

I just wanted to post the resolution. And I want to apologize to everyone who thought it was the Philips DVP 642. I was wrong.

Thank you for everyone who posted to this thread to help a newbie (a stubborn, and dumb newbie, in retrospect).

Now I just need to create a cover in Nero Cover Designer (not a problem), and I am finally done.

Again, ... THANK YOU EVERYONE, VIDEOHELP.COM <3

Peace.

[Cornucopia]

It's not a "fault" of the Philips player, it's actually a misunderstanding of which keys correspond to which functions...

DVD has lots of functions.

The usual--

PLAY
PAUSE
STOP
NEXT
PREV

etc.

It also has

Title Menu, Menu, Angle, Audio, Subtitle,

and

N, S, E, W, and Enter


VCD only has a variant/subset of that:

The regular transport controls, and--

Default, Return, Next, Previous

On MANY players, the RETURN button is considered = Menu, but on many others, it's totally different (same w/ Default).

You should get a copy of Vitualis' Test VCD to see which keys work how on your player...


Scott

[jman98]

I created a SVCD w/ Nero 5.5 and the menu(s) created by Nero work perfectly, so I don't think the Philips DVP-642 is at fault. [/b]

Also, I have not read reports in the Yahoo Group for the Philips DVP 642 about problems w/ the SVCD Menu(s). In fact, I don't recall reading any report about problems w/ SVCDs in the Yahoo Group for the Philips DVP 642 (with ANY FIRMWARE).

If Nero 5.5 can produce perfectly working menu(s) on the Philips DVP 642, then the DVD Player is NOT at fault.

The problem is w/ VCDEasy, or the way I setup the SVCD menus in VCDEasy. That's why I'm posting here, so someone can point out what I did wrong in authoring the SVCD.

Peace.

I have no problem accepting the idea that VCDeasy may not be doing what you want. Yes, there ARE problems, BIG problems, with SVCD playback on this unit. Create an SVCD with 2 audio files. It won't play the second. Create an SVCD with 4 subtitle tracks. It won't play anything but the first and even better, you cannot turn it off. All of this I said earlier. The format allows for 2 seperate audio tracks and up to 4 selectible subtitles and the player fails to support these options. The fact that nobody has mentioned this on the Yahoo group makes me think that the group must not be very good. SVCD is basically a dead format in my book and I stopped making them years ago, so I don't really care enough to try to find out what other problems the DVP-642 might have with SVCDs, but I have personally confirmed all of the problems I mentioned. I don't think they have been fixed in any firmware update.

[Cornucopia]

You like Nero and it has "successfullly" created a disc for you, but you don't like its features (or lack of) compared to VCDEasy. Ok. You'd like VCDEasy to be programmed the same way...

Here's what to do--

1. Create a disc with the features as near as you'd like (but still making it work right) in Nero. Burn the disc.

2. Insert the disc. Open VCDEasy. Use [Tools | (S)VCD Build/Rip] : "Disassemble a SVCD disc".

3. Do the same with the disc created by VCDEasy.

4. Compare the XML text. It should be fairly straightforward where the difference lies.

Scott