USB 2.0 Ext HDD - works succesfully under WIN98 Gold !!

[vhelp]

Revised on: 04.13.06 - 08:18pm


New Item: WD 80 gigabyte External HDD, "WD Essential 80 Gigabyte"

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( Note, because I read a lot where members here are enquiring about the
probability of capturing to External HDD, I felt this would probably
serve better in this forum area, case other suspecting member(s) search
in this area on this subject )

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After becoming tired of scrounging for HDD space (for my captures) I decided
to finally go out and take a chance on an USB 2.0 External HDD gizmo.

The chance I was taking was with the exclusion of WIN98 support. When I first
saw the package, the minimum system requirement was Windows 98SE. No sign of
support for WIN98 Gold. I knew that. I knew it was going to be my luck.

Anyways, because of my long-time experience with win98 and driver hackability,
I took the chance, and purchased the unit anyways - thanks to a previous hack
experience, you'll understand why I took the plung (see below) ..

(long story short, I learned a trick w/ another non-win98 support, for a 1 Gig
mem stick that, where in short, I managed to get win98 gold support for this,
and was up and running win98 gold w/ a 1gig mem stick. I put video files that
I captured and encoded to MPEG-2 and played it on this stick, and the video
played every-so smoothly. I was a very happy happy camper because of this hack)

Thus, I dicided to give this new USB 2.0 External HDD a go with this win98 hack.

And, what do you know.. it worked !!

The drive is recignized as a 80gig drive (the manual states because of win98SE
FAT32 4gig limit, only 32G partition would be recignized - so, I'm stumped, but
happy it works beyond expectations.

So far, I've captured to this WD80GIG EXT drive in this manor, and with no trouble:

HDTV Receiver[OUT: composite] -> winFast[CODEC: huffy] -> WD80GIG_Ext_HDD


CONS:
1 - I seem to have trouble with my driver support with various capture applications.
However, using my winFast cap card, and the wdm driver setup, I am able to capture
with no trouble when using VirtualVCR.
2 - win98 seems to have problems w/ unit on during bootup. I will have to do some
investigating on this. For now, I just unplug my USB HUB and wait till win98 is
up and running. Then, I plug it in, and HDD is ready.
3 - the manual mentions something about HDD light blinking during activity, but I
have not seen it. I'd like to see lights action during activity. But, its not
the end of the world, otherwise.
4 - (new) RAW capture: drops frames like crazy
5 - (new) HDD Act'vy Light: does work, but is too bright to notice sometimes.


PROS:
1 - NO dropped frames (huffy codec tested successfully)
2 - NO Audio sync problems. (As long as you have no dropped frames, all is well)
3 - Can capture w/ 48k audio setup.
4 - Plenty of HDD space
5 - Works under WIN98 Gold (driver hack)
6 - Drive recinized as 80gig under win98 FAT32 setup
7 - (new) codec: dv, zero drops, but soon, buffers overfill, and frame drops begin.
my system speed is just too slow to keep up.
8 - (new) unit is very quiet, even at 7200 RPM


Conclusion:
If you are curious wheather or not the Ext HDD will work for your Analog capturing,
well, the short answer is, yes, but depends on codec setup.

(edit: updated above) I have not tested RAW capturing yet. That's my next test.. and
I'll post back my results. Bare in mind, my given setup is a weak one at best. I have
an older setup:

** CPU: AMD Athlon 1800 XP+ w/ 512MB RAM
** MOBO: ECS K7S5A
** OS: Window 98 Gold
** USB HUB: 4-port by Cyber Power, connected to a Ali USB 2.0 pci card port
** USB 2.0 Ext HDD: "WD Essential 80 gigabyte" - model WD800B014-RNN
** Cap App: VirtualVCR
** Codec: Huffy - best performer, will give you 4:2:2 color space

-vhelp 3901

[lumis]

what's so great about win98 gold?

[Bjs]

Your system as stated is an amd1800xp , therefore the motherboard will have usb2 .

However , the full transfer speed will not be achievable until xp with sp2 is installed , or you use a linux distribution that dose support usb2 device's .

As to the problem with with the device during bootup , check the bios has all usb port's enabled .

As to os problem's , consider installing this update for removable usb device's .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update for 1394 Storage Peripherals in Windows 98 Second Edition (Q242975)

The information in this article applies to:

Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition

SYMPTOMS

You may experience any of the following symptoms:

Your computer stops responding (hangs) when you physically unplug a 1394 (FireWire) storage or peripheral device from your computer.

You experience poor performance with your 1394 storage or peripheral device.

Your 1394 storage or peripheral device is not recognized by Windows.

RESOLUTION

A software update is now available to address these issues. You can install the Windows 98 Second Edition 1394 Storage Supplement on a computer running Windows 98 Second Edition from the "Recommended Updates" section of the following Microsoft Windows Update Web site:

http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com

You can also download this update (for installation later or on a different computer) from the following Microsoft Web site:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_WUFeatured/1394/Default.asp

NOTE : This component updates your system files and requires you to restart your computer to complete the installation.
Please save your work and quit all programs before installing.

This update installs the Safe Removal tool that allows you to safely stop a Plug and Play storage device prior to physically unplugging the device.

This component also includes an update for 1394 drivers to resolve issues that are related to the "surprise" removal of peripheral devices.

Large performance improvements :

Approximately 300 percent have been made over the implementation of 1394 storage drivers in Windows 98 Second Edition.

------------------------------------------------------------------

It should also be noted that after installing this , should you have the utility from , say , memmory card reader for digital camera's , you should remove this utilty as they have be known to have conflict ... now use this update , supplied here to control such device's in the future .

This should cure the issue's ... and now you know where the speed come's from , not from some useless so called hack ...

PS : Pci usb2 card's only provide support for usb1/2 device's , and not full expected usb2 speed , this is because of the inherited speed and restriction's placed upon the device by the parent device , being pci ... so usb2 speed will never fully be reached .

[vhelp]

Forgive me if I ask like, the 1001th time, but..

Under my WIN98, in an event that things don't work out the I want
or expect them to, I'd like to do a simple backup of crusial files,
but without loading expansive software or covert manuvers. Is there
a simpler way of backing (and then restoring) on the fly ??

( even if I dont' like it - for whatever reason - i'd like to be able
to restore w/ no problems )

Example:
Like using Xcopy x,y,z or something. Next time I load windows, my
old setup is restored, as if I never done anything to my system.


Regarding my 1gig mem stick ...

I can pull the stick out at any time, and back in. I do like this feature
over the safe tray prefered method. I usually never have any thing open
(drive or app) when I prepare to unplug the stick from my usb hub.. I close
things down, and then, unplug it.. pop it back in, and everything is back
up and running again.

What I fear most w/ the new install, is the wait. Waiting for the system
to sense that there is a stick, and then do its thing, and finally, issue
a warning box, etc. I know all about corrupt files, etc. when pulling any
stick/device out when other apps/folders are open.


Regarding the 300% increase in speed ...

Sure I'd love it, but I don't think it will happen in my setup. Not because
it's WIN98, but because I truely feel that it is operating at peek effeiciency.
I could be wrong.. I'd like to be, in this case.

Is there a small measure tool to use in testing the speed/throughput of
the USB 2.0 on my mobo and setup ?? If there is, I'd like to obtain it, if
possible, and run a test report on my USB's. Would be nice to show a Before
and After, results. Plus, other uses/members here, might benefit from its
use.

whats so good about win98 gold ?

Nothing. Just a naming convention or something, associated with the first
edition of windows 98, back in the day.. sometimes you see references like,
1st Edition; First Edition; or Gold.. I guess I forget where I first
saw "Gold" being used

Thanks everyone, for your comments.

-vhelp 3904

[RabidDog]

Best to just call it WIN98 as everybody else does . As to Usb 2.0 speeds you wont even achieve these on a proper usb setup. They are all theoretical, never seen in real life. Like gas mileage. I only read this to find out about Win98 gold .. its older than my own win/xp titanium..

[Bjs]

1 : Using external memmory device's without the safe removal utility update .. allow's you to run the risk of corrupting data stored on the device , and even damaging it , where it will nolonger function ... some manufacter's have stated this as an actual accurance , and should be avoided ... remember , ignorance after the fact is not covered under warrantee agreement .

2 : The only way you will see the transfer difference's between your setup , and one running xp , is to place a 500mb file on the usb device .

Measure the time it take's to write to device , and copy back from device on you current setup ... note these down .
Find a friend running xp with usb2 , and repeat the process ....

It is a 300% increase in performance ... been there and done it many time's ..

I have been repairing pc's for the last 15 year's , and until recently found it more convenient to have a couple of 1 gigabyte patriot memory storage device's making updating pc's easier across the board .

One for each os .

This 300% speed increase transfer is the genuine article and no bull .

[lumis]

whats so good about win98 gold ?

Nothing. Just a naming convention or something, associated with the first
edition of windows 98, back in the day.. sometimes you see references like,
1st Edition; First Edition; or Gold.. I guess I forget where I first
saw "Gold" being used

Thanks everyone, for your comments.

-vhelp 3904

What's so good about Win98 Gold/1st Edition compared to Windows 98SE? Or even Windows XP? Why do you seem hell bent on using it? I'm not trying to bag on you or anything, just curious.