Basically there's NO software to copy a DVD to ANY DVD blank

[logopro]

It's amazes me in this day and age that there is not one software that can copy a DVD movie to a blank DVD disc.

Why is this ?

Is this the wrong time to buy a DVD burner ?

I just can't fathom that DVD movies can't be copied to ONE single disc,
if one needs 2 DVD discs to copy a movie, then why not just stick with SVCDs.

Help help !

[NYPlayer]

There are many...

Dvd95Copy
Dvd2one
InstantCopy

[K2]

Thank the movie industry and copy protection.

[logopro]

Let's read from Baldrick's tutorial on the main page:

and I quote:

"The quality suck after I converted with DVD2ONE?
If you want to keep the video quality then copy the DVD-9 to two DVDs with for example DVDXCopy. "

2 discs......

* If the copy is an original * ( on one disc) then quality would be EXACTLY the same, as it would for a VCD, SVCD, etc.

This proves that those programs DO not create a mirror image of a DVD movie.

Also, I note there are DVD-9 and DVD-5 movies,
I'm going to assume that MOST movies out there today are DVD-9 format movies ? .....

[herbapou]

The softwares specify by nplayer are very good.

BUT: Because DVD are encrypted, you need to decrypt them to your hard drive prior to process them with the copying software. You can use DVDDecryptor to do so, its free.

Because of legal issues regarding encryption and copy protection laws, most software do not include decryption.

Also, remember that distributing/selling/giving/renting copies of DVD`s is illegal. But its legal in some countrys to make a "private copy" of a dvd.

[Gazorgan]

Your trying to put 7 GB of movie onto 4.3 GB of disk, what do think is going to happen? Either you transcode it, or you go with 2 disks.

Now, with some intelligence, you can transcode it to D1 resolution and voila' you have 'SVCD resolution' on a DVDR. And since you are cutting the horizontal resolution in 1/2, you can go with 3-4 hours of movie, are higher bitrates, or those pesky extra's.

People use 1 DVDR all the time, it's jsut not user-stupid one click and burn.

[logopro]

thanks for the info,

I have a few movies for my kids and thought backing them up to a new disc would have been easy, but wow, I had no clue that you had to do all of this. I thought you just popped the original in and said copy and it would make a copy of it.

With kids and DVD movies, you cannot believ the scratches and things they can get onto them, cookie muck, chocolate etc.

Anyway ok thanks for the info, I don't think buying a $300 DVD burner is worth it, considering the original movies are only about $15.

[herbapou]

When you convert a DVD-9 to a DVD-5, you will (and always will) loose some quality, no matter what software you used.

This is because DVD`s are using MPEG-2 compression. When converting from a DVD-9 to DVD-5, your output is still MPEG-2. Of course, quality will vary depending on the software you use, but you will always have quality loss.

In order to avoid the loss of quality, you would have to use a different compression technology has output (like MPEG-4). But most DVD`s players dont read MPEG-4 video. Until they do, you cant avoid loosing quality.

Panasonic is suppose to produce a standalone DVD player that will read microsoft media player video. But that is not available yet.

Note: I just want to mention that I am personnaly using DVD2one and I am very satisfy with the quality of the output.

[herbapou]

Now, with some intelligence, you can transcode it to D1 resolution and voila' you have 'SVCD resolution' on a DVDR. And since you are cutting the horizontal resolution in 1/2, you can go with 3-4 hours of movie, are higher bitrates, or those pesky extra's.

I do not recommend doing this. It is true that SVCD need less space but you have to pay a very high price for this: resolution. For NTSC, DVD's are 720x480 while SVCD are 480x480. A loss in resolution = a loss in video quality. The loss in picture details is very easy to spot when downgrading to SVCD

[dbaker6165]

dude! there is software that allows u to copy a dvd. Just look through the site. If you dont like the quality of the copy then buy two of the origional discs. The quality is fine or decent for me. I have never gotten any complaints when I show them to those im entertaining... I always get the response of "wow, thats a copy..." Now I respect Baldrick and If he's says the quality sux then thats his oppinion. Now I you are like me and you have research and tried (now own) dvd2one - would write my own oppinion's in this forum instead of quoting people.

[K2]

I think Logopro hit the nail on the head.

Is it worth the cost of a DVD burner and my time to copy a movie that only cost $15 to purchase?

A blank dvd $1
cost of burner over 50 copies $3
personal time $10 or more
Computer costs larger hard drive or faster processor, electricity $???
cost of DVDXcopy over 50 copies $2
Subtotal $16 or more per copy.

For a handful of copies forget it and buy another DVD.
If do this all the time then go for it.

[housepig]

I disagree with your figures, mainly the $10 for your time.

I usually set up rips and burns when I don't need to be on the computer, i.e. just before starting to watch a movie, making/eating dinner or right before I go to sleep. So my time is basically free.

as far as software, I use DVD2One and DVD Decrypter for most of my backups, so the cost is $50 & $0, respectively.

So my figures for doing 50 backups come out to about $9 per.... but I'm not stopping at 50. And since $7 of that $9 is amortized cost of the burner, that's only going to go down the more I burn.

you're quite right... if it's just a few discs, there's no point. Buy extra copies. But depending on how hard the kids are on the discs, it might be worth it in the long run... probably by the time I bought the third "extra" copy of Lion King or whatever...

- housepig

[ghoster]

ok i have copyied about 75 dvds and i would bet atleast 70% of the dvds. the main movie was under 4.7 gigs. just thought i would throw that out.

[K2]

OK housepig

You are right, the numbers could be slightly lower.

But lets be more direct. I don't believe people backup 50-75 DVD's per year of movies they already paid for. If you are doing that many, some are from other sources. Kids usually only watch a few movies repeatedly, not 75.

[herbapou]

My cost per DVD is:

1.25$ for Ritek G03 blank DVD
0.25$ for blank label.
0.50$ for label ink.
1.00$ for software (50$, spread on 50 dvds)

So 3$ per DVD excluding the burner.

I am not sure its pertinent to add computer cost: like HD usage, electricity and the burner. Dont forget a DVD burner is still very usefull for homevideo and backups.

If someone buy an entire system with a burner for the sole and only reason of making DVD backups he is nuts. The only cost effective way to justify this would be making copies of rent or borrow dvd`s. BTW this is legal in some contries (like Canada, France, Germany,...). Even in the US, its not more or less illegal than taping a movie from a TV broadcast, something almost everyone does.

France:
http://www.01net.com/article/195431.html

Canada: (document PDF, faut avoir PDF)
PDF: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html
Document: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/circ15b.pdf

[housepig]

But lets be more direct. I don't believe people backup 50-75 DVD's per year of movies they already paid for. If you are doing that many, some are from other sources. Kids usually only watch a few movies repeatedly, not 75.

Also very true.

But let's try it this way.

The kids watch 5 movies repeatedly. They are hard on the discs, so they destroy each disc 4 times.

That's 20 extra copies bought of these movies. At $15 each, that's $300.... for which you can get a burner and a copy of DVD2One.

We can throw numbers around all day, but it's going to come down to the basics - how many movies get busted, how many extra copies are needed?

As for me, I don't just make copies of DVD's, I burn lots of data backups on them, so I have no problem justifying it.

- housepig

[rallynavvie]

Also worth mentioning that you can get a good DVD burner for less than $200 now

[dun4cheap]

Well interesting enough I do think some of the figures are incorrect. Here are some numbers I have.

DVD2ONE - was something like $44 us 66 movies - $.66 a movie and going down. Great Program www.dvd2one.com
DVDdecrypter - $0 Great program
Ritek G3 50 for $39.99 .80 each (PCclub)
CD Label 2000 for $10 - .005 each (Computer Show)
Ink - Minimal maybe .05 each DVD label (HP1115 Office Depot)
Actual DVD Case 5 for $1.00 - .20 each (computer show www.caloptic.com)
8x14 Paper reem(250 sheets) $3 - .02 each DVD Cover (Office Depot)
Ink - Minimal maybe .10 each DVD Cover


Cost: $1.84

As for the DVD burner and computer, these are costs I don't care to include as I would have these items anyways but I will list the costs.

Sony DRU500a from DELL: $254 (8 Meg Cache Can't lose with this)
Intel P4 1.6 and Intel 845wnMB: $200
WD 180 gig ata 100: $99 (Sweet + $20 added the 3 year warranty through WD)
Maxtor 80gig - $99
Yamaha F1 - $50 (8 meg Cache woohoo)
Ext. Usb2,1 and Firewire IDE box with 80 gig IBM - $120
1.5gig SDram Pc133 - $100
ATI 7500 AIW - $120 (TRUE BLUE ATI)
ATI DV Wonder - $39.99 (Sweet, works well with my panasonic DV)
SB Live 5.1 - $34 (Gotta have one)



Now I notice comments about tying up the computer while doing all this. First off if you use decent equipment and your burners have good caches than you can do it all. I personally will be ripping and transcoding at the same time while using my computer to surf the internet or writing software. My setup is avg, not a race horse but adequate enough to handle most anything I throw at it.

[DvdHeader]

@herbapou

I'm sorry but it is not what the article concerning Copyrights says. It is pertinent only to and I quote "Private copying refers to the making of copies of pre-recorded musical works, performer's performances and sound recordings onto a blank recording medium, such as audio tape or cassette for personal use".

There is no reference whatsoever to video copy...

[Cornucopia]

Adding to what Gazorgan said-

DVD's come as DVD5, DVD9, DVD10, DVD18

DVD5->DVDr5; OK
DVD10->DVDr5 x 2, or DVDr10; OK
Not currently any such thing as DVDr9's or 18's, so:
DVD9->DVDr5, or DVD18->DVDr10; TOO BIG!!!

What to do?
1. Squeeze it down to fit. Loses some quality (operative majic word is SOME)
2. Cut it down to fit. Loses some material--may or may not be wanted anyway
3. Chop it up to fit multiple DVDr5's. Some discontinuity, otherwise OK
4. Use a bigger DVDr (aka BluRay)
5. Wait till hell freezes over for DVDr9's to come out

These are the only choices you'll ever have. Some software will do one (1, 2, or 3), some another, a few will give you choice.


@herbapou:
Not all DVD's are encrypted-some H'wood titles aren't worth the trouble I guess, and there are a number of types of DVD copy protection.

Both stamped and burned DVD's can have a CGMS flag, or not.
If so, both stamped and burned DVD's can have a Macrovision flag, or not.
Also if CGMS, Stamped DVD's, but not burned discs, can be encrypted with CSS, or not. This allows multiple duplicates to be made at stamp time, but disallowing later copies.
Alternately for Burned DVD's, but not stamped, titles can be encrypted with CPRM--which allow 1 or 0 copies, or not.

The CGMS flag is very often ignored.
The Macrovision flag can often be gotten around (hacked).
The CSS encryption has been gotten around.
Don't know about CPRM encryption, but hardly any consumer-level authoring/burning software incorporates it.

HTH,
Scott

[Jayhawk]

An interesting discussion with a lot of great points made. I haven't done a detailed cost structure for my backups but would judge them to be $5 a piece and declining with the cost of the media. The burner is not included because most of it was paid for by saving up birthday and Christmas gift cards for the last 2 years. With the one time burner cost out of the equation, the backups are very affordable. I find my time investment minimal. With Decrypter, DVD2ONE, and Nero the process is less than an hour for most movies and I can always find something else to do while that's going on. Without all the extra, most DVD9's will fit on one disc with little if any quality loss.

For me the issue is flexibility. A couple of times a month I go to my local rental store and get 6 - 10 movies and copy them. When the wife and I want to watch a movie, it's there and waiting. We seldom go to the movies anymore so that saves me a fortune.

As for the legality, in the Betamax case the court ruled that "time shifting" for personal use is legal. I don't loan out my copies and rarely watch them more than once. I suppose this is a loophole the studios would love to close but for now the Fair Use Doctrine is still the only one ruled on by the Supreme Court.

[menace]

For me its the ability to put movies on DVD where there are no commercially available copies--i.e. star wars, indiana jones, blade runner theatrical version etc. To be able to put the laserdiscs away for good (as well as VHS) is well worth the price--whatever it actually is! Besides--this is alot of fun and I impress girls with my knowledge (okay that last part was a blatant lie as the only one impressed is the fiance and I think she is humoring me....) :P

[Bob W]

Let's read from Baldrick's tutorial on the main page:

and I quote:

"The quality suck after I converted with DVD2ONE?
If you want to keep the video quality then copy the DVD-9 to two DVDs with for example DVDXCopy. "

2 discs......

* If the copy is an original * ( on one disc) then quality would be EXACTLY the same, as it would for a VCD, SVCD, etc.

This proves that those programs DO not create a mirror image of a DVD movie.

Also, I note there are DVD-9 and DVD-5 movies,
I'm going to assume that MOST movies out there today are DVD-9 format movies ? .....

I must disagree with this. I think the quality of DVD2one and DVD95 Copy or Even Instant Copy is excellent for what the programs do.

[Baldrick]

PLEASE POST DVD TO DVD POSTS IN OUR DVD to DVDR FORUM. I'm moving this one.

[housepig]

As for the legality, in the Betamax case the court ruled that "time shifting" for personal use is legal.

I thought that the concept of "time shifting" in the Betamax case was directed toward recording tv shows (taping something to watch at a time other than broadcast).

If so, that really wouldn't cover renting something and dubbing it to watch later, since unlike a tv broadcast that's on once, and locks you into a specific viewing time (necessitating the intervention of a vcr), a rental movie is available at any time during your rental period.

So "don't rent until you have time to watch" would probably be the argument.

not that I care, per se... I just like playing devil's advocate.



- housepig

[herbapou]

About "Private Copying" applying to DVD...

France:
In france, private copying applies to every type of copyright material, except software. You can translate this http://www.01net.com/article/195431.html article with this site http://world.altavista.com/

But the interesting part is this:

Yoda: Hello, is it true that it is regarded as "extreme case" and thus tolerated by the law, the copy of a DVD lent or rented, provided that this copy is not, in its turn, copied? Thank you.
Yes, if the copy is strictly reserved for the private use of the copyist...

Canada:
Now thats a bit more complicated. The "Private Copying" exception was originaly done for music. Here is the article link again:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/circ15b.pdf
And this is the organization in charge of collection the levy on blanks:
http://www.cpcc.ca/english/
Note: I just want to point out that "private copying" do allow the copying of loan or rented CD's.

The CPCC wants to collect a levy on blanks DVDs too, but this is because some people are using DVD's for DVD audio (so they say, but I dont think a lot of people are using DVD's in that matter at this time):
http://www.cpcc.ca/english/proposedTariff.htm

The tricky part:
Look at the french copyright message taken from "A Knight Tale", region 1, Canada:

Les droits des auteurs d'oeuvres cinematographiques, musicales ou sonores, enregistrees soit sur film soit sur bande magnetique (videocassettes ou cassettes), soit sur disque, ou tout autre procede, sont proteges par les lois et les conventions internationales.
Toute reproduction, sauf pour l'usage strictement prive du copiste: tout usage a des fins lucratives ou en public, sont interdites sans l'autorisation prealable et ecrite du titulaire des droits d'auteurs. Les contrevenant s'expose a des sanctions civiles et penales....

Translation:

The rights of authors of the cinematographic, musical or sound works, recorded either on film or on magnetic tape (videotapes or tapes), or on disc, or any other methods, are protected by the laws and the International Conventions.
Any reproduction, except for the use strictly private of the copyist: any use has lucrative ends or in public, are prohibited without the authorization of the holder of the royalties. The contravener exposes himself to civil and criminal charges...

This is in fact the copyright text for France. But, its on almost all bilingual DVD's sold in Canada because they didnt made a different text for Canada, they just took what was on the region 2 DVD sold in France.

Nevertheless, this IS the copyright message on my DVD's and according to this, I CAN make a private copy of it! Dont you love to have french Canadian now?

[txpharoah]

In response to quality loss, not too much. True s-video resolution is 352x480. So basically, the 720x480 resolution is throwing extra data at your tv. Guess what? It ignores it anyway. It is only on the disc because SOMEDAY we'll all have HDtv or we'll be boring and watch on our computers (not me!).

If you want to watch on your tv, and only speak english, kill off the extra resolution, kill off the foreign language, kill off the subs. Who cares? Not like a VHS tape would have had all that anyway? If you want it all, then buy all means, spend an extra $1 on a 2nd disc. Quit being cheap.

This doesn't always work, but it does a lot of the time. I have several 3-hour movies on a DVD in superb quality, even on a large screen tv. You CAN do it. And it does look good. But yes, it's also longer than merely using DVDXCopy to dump onto 2 DVDr discs.

My 2 cents.

[herbapou]

About resolution:

First of all, you will see a difference on your TV between DVD, SVCD and VCD. You will see a lost of details and sharpness.

But since a TV is suppose to be 352x480, then why? Because size matters. This is why the diffecence between the resolutions is so apparent on large size TV`s.

To understand this, look at a 2400x1200 picture taken by a digital camera on a 19'inch monitor in 1024x780. Then look at a 1024x780 picture taken by the same camera on the same monitor. Huge difference in picture quality.

And dont forget even non HDTV TV already exceed regular TV resolution. ALL progressive scan big screen TV will clearly show the SVCD and VCD limitations.

The HDTV resolution is 1920x1080. So even current DVD`s are well below it. Just imagine how crappy SVCD and VCD are going to look on those TV`s compare to regular DVD`s or HDTV broadcast. Do you really want to re-encode all of your movies all over again in a few years because you got used of high resolution TV`s and cant stand your SVCD anymore??

[northcat_8]

Some call it pirating...I call it backing up Blockbuster's DVD collection. :P

Also, you can make an exact copy of the original, they may not fit on a single DVD-R yet, but they will eventually, someone will write a program and figure it out but they do fit on your hard drive.

Also with a 19" monitor, just ripping to the HD allows you to view the movie later if you have enough disk space. I have a pair of 80 GB drives and a 60 GB drive, that would make 220 GB of space, since the average size of most movies is 5 GB give or take I could fit 30-40 movies on my existing space.

[dun4cheap]

www.netflix.com boys, $20 a month and I average 30 rentals or so a month easily.