Long time VCD maker......... Virgin SVCD making

[thefox149]

I have been making VCD for ages but decide to go the extra step in making an SVCD set of an old VHS tape of Carl's sagens "Cosmos" (brillant doc)

SO here are some specs

Capture 352x288 (PAL)
Picvideo Mpjeg codec
in virtual dub

The capture is fine with minimal frame drops.

SO I went to encode.

I decide to use the template only to discover I didn't like how well it preserved the pic. So I decided to create my own specs

Video bitrate 2520
Audio 192
with a full screen res
2 pass
high quality motion search

The end result was amazing (not sure on how many meg per minute but it was faily high) and played seemlessly on my PC (direct from my hard drive)...

But now here is where it goes nuts....(that's why I am here)

My player (Centrex DVD not sure what they call it overseas centrum maybe but in Australia it's called Centrex) started playing it fine and look great but after 5 mins the picture went all white then resumed ...the audio then started going out of sync....then every few minutes the screen would go white etc etc....So this has led me to believe it is howI have burnt it or the player

I burnt the file using NERO SVCD

So I am wondering if it's not one of in not something else of the following

1. Bitrate is too high for the machine (then why does it play it for 5 mins??)

2. Nero is a big peice of crap ......(works fine for VCD)

3. It hits a bad frame (but it has come from a clean source with minimal frame drops) and starts going nuts

4. I have burnt it too fast (although I have tried buring at slow speed with no difference here again should I blame nero???)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated......should I try the VCD header trick??? aaaahh I don't no anymore I already have a few grey hairs from this

[twodogs]

Can't help you with your problem but some info:
Centrex is a rebadged Apex if you've got the $180 CTD-2100 (except Aussie version has no WMA and maybe some other bits missing).

If you've got the $150 Centrex, then I don't know what this is called overseas.

I've got a CTD-2100 and it plays SVCDs OK, although I haven't put it thru its paces fully yet (CVDs also work OK, but I tried one XSVCD and it did not like it - maybe too high bitrate - more experimentation required).

[thefox149]

I have check out the DVd player guides here and they mention that Centrex doesn't play back xsvcd well (which is essential what I have made). I am going to check out on other people's DVD players I would hate to have to re encode down to a lower bitrate cause I hear that cause even more problems when doing this for mpg2 .....I might have to just stick with the standard svcd ....and settle for the lower bitrate....but that annoys me ...why should I comprimise on quality...the player is fine and has played everything i have made....except for this .......hmm more though required ...anyone else with a theory out there???? I think I will try the VCD header trick...to see what happens

[twodogs]

Let me know how you go and I will do the same - looks like we're both experimenting with the same stuff on the same machine. Heading away for the longie, so wont be burning anything till late next week.
Also, I tried miniDVD which did not work.

[thefox149]

I also have a few files in different SVCD bitrates that I set up last night for a test.......Will let you know the results...I already now that the Player plays Non standard mpeg1 file well so making a fake non standard VCD
hopefully will do the trick...if not well have the fun is experimenting

ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR

PS WHAT A LOAD OF BULLSHIT CANCELLING THE FIREWORKS...ON THE WORLDS GREATES HARBOUR....FOR THOSE THAT CARE

[ZippyP.]

...ON THE WORLDS GREATES HARBOUR

Off topic but.....You sound like a Yank mate! I live in Vancouver and dispute your opinion!

[twodogs]

Don't think so.

http://www.viewsydney.com.au/index3.htm
Take control of the cam.

Once you've had a play:
http://www.dima.gov.au/allforms/migration_info.htm

[Betamax]

If you know xsvcd won't work completely, why don't you first try whether your player accepts svcd's at all!
First make a 'compliant' svcd. Test with that. If the result-quality is okay, then keep it and stick with that.
Only VCD and SVCD are compliant with (most, if not all) players, anything else (xsvcd, hq-vcd, cvd, ...) : you're at your own (good luck).

[ronnylov]

Why do you capture at 352x288 when making SVCD? SVCD resolution is 480x576 (PAL). You should capture with a resolution that is higher or equal to the destination format.

[thefox149]

I am australian thru and thru........although I am a citizen of the world

I will try to make a compliant SVCD first. I did try the Header Trick the picture was perfect but the audio went all st st st st studdery and out of sync.

I burnt it with VCDeasy (my fisrt ever burn using this app)
So I tried again using Nero but have not tested as yet I will keep at it, cause I am not sure I did it right with VCDeasy ....Weird thing though is when I burnt it using the VCD template in Nero it didn't come up with the "Non Standard compliance" etc so maybe it is good will let you know

As for the Video res....I capped at 352x288 beacuse it's from VHS....if I set it at a higher res I get black borders.....obviously VHS can only be used at this res.....when I encode I use full screen ....but at 352x288 might give the 480x570 a go ....thanks for the comments..opended my eyes abit

[SatStorm]

Hmmm...
You don't cap and you don't encode correct! Sorry!

I'll describe how I do it, so to give you an alternative example! It might help you!

First of all I use a really cheap card to capture analogue. Hauppague win TV primio FM. It is a variation of win tv go for Europe. The cost is about 65 Euros/Dollars
You also need a dedicated PCI audio card. The built in audio fuction of motherboards ain't good for this job. Even the cheapest out there is ok for this.
Now, you grabb with the program called Virtualdub, using the Huffyuv codec for best results or any mjpeg codec (for smaller filesize but with less quality). You grabb for PAL @ 352 X 576. You also set virtualdub to squise luminance range and do realtime noise reduction (3-4 threshold steps are O.K.)
When finished, you frameserve with Virtualdub to TMPGenc plus.

Now, you have 2 choises!

You encode to CVD or xCVD (if your player support it.).
You encode to XSVCD (VCD framesize, but mpeg 2 and higher bitrates).

- If you choose CVD, you set CBR 2000 for about 50 minitus. Good quality, not perfect. One 50 min episode per 80min CD that way.
- If you can choose xCVD you set 2 Pass VBR with 1000minimum, 2000 average 3000 maximum. If I remember correct, Cosmos use to be 45 min, so you rise it to 1000minimum 2150 average 3300 maximum
On both choices, detect the correct field order! Very important!
Now Hit encode and when finished, burn with Nero as non compilant SVCD.

This method gonna give you 100% of your VHS but in a way it is an overkill! And that because as you already said, VHS is officially only 352 X 288 (144 active + 144 non active skylines per field, 2 field for frame in offset between them (zigzag), so the frame is a reconstructed 288 active + 288 non active lines picture, from which usefull are only the active ones).

The alternative, is to encode to xSVCD. This is better, but for some strange reason even me, tents to use it only on b' class material. So, you encode to mpeg 2 @ 352 X 288 with 2 pass vbr with an average bitrate about 1300 - 1600 kb/s and interlace output! Using 1600kb/s is like using 3200kb/s for xCVD which can produce block free picture even from an extreme source like home movies.
Use adaptive de-interlace mode but set the output as intelace! That way, you have all the VHS info. The problem is that even if this is the best solution/transfer, it is -x- for CD media (seems to be OK for DVD-Video from what I know, as 1/4 D1 DVD, which is legal, from what we know for DVD untill today)

Anyway, those 2 methods are the best I know untill today. For PAL the second one is equal good with the first one, for NTSC users, well... There is a difference, I admit! This format is blurry enough so xCVD might be a better overall quality solution!

Test a bit and you might find my suggestions helpfull!

About Cosmos, you have the original late 70s/early 80s version, or the update 90s one?

[thefox149]

I do use Vdub for capping....I never cap at 352x576 cause yo get the blue blue screen at the top and bottom ...no picture...I could be wrong here...but that is how I have been doing it. I use Picvideo and use Tmpgnc to encode when make VCD's I use the template. I actually made a really good SVCD disc today and play's beautifully mostly from the help from this site. I have to admit though I did use the template with a little teakin not too much just little things like high quality motion search etc.

I have a leadtek vivo graphics card and sblive sound card for capping...I have that covered...

My player doesn't really like XSVCD that much so I will have to stick with the standard which overall ani't that bad. I wanna be able to capp at a higher res 480x576 but I drop frames like a madman..I think it has to do with the os being on the same partition ..I will be looking into that...

Thanks for your comments Satstorm. It is the 70's version of Cosmos and They re ran it a few years back so the pic is very good....an absolutly amazing doc.....

[SatStorm]

Yeah, I use to watch this show when I was teen. It was great!
I also saw the 90s update, with Carl pretty old. Before he left us...

I grabb all the time VHS/Analogue and I never had those blue lines you describe. Must be a card thing...
On Virtualdub's capture mode, some times the preview mode works better the overlay one. Have you tried switch to preview mode?
And yes, a seperate HD for the grabbing is neccessary. In a different IDE also!

[thefox149]

I feel like a retard.......I had been using Vdub in overlay as opposed to preview........I love this website everytime I come here I learn something new.....I still drop frames though I have tweaked a few things thus far and can cap at 480x576 for about 2mins max then bang!! I drop a million frames .....I know my card can handle it and so my system should be able to as well. I will be partitioning today & an extra HD is on the way....

[SatStorm]

Don't feel that way!
Nobody knows anything. You always missing something!
Take me for example: I made SVCD/VCDs for 3 and a half years and I didn't know how to manual detect the correct field order of my analogue grabs! It is one of the things the newbies learn first and I didn't know it, I needed to ask the forum for how to do it, five months ago!
Now, who is the retard? Me of course...

[thefox149]

I have gone thru alot this weekend system crashed XSVCd making......all in all I am sticking to the SVCD template tin TMGNC (or whatever it is)
I recomend it too anyone who wants to listen thanks to all that helped with my intial questions and posts