CCE argh!

[hwk316]

Hi, I'm not sure if I can classify myself as a noob but the problem might be along those lines. When I play my SVCD of Joyride in my standalone it jitters (I think its a field problem) but I can't get it right. Heres the break down:

smart ripper
dvd2avi (force film)
avisynth:

loadplugin("d:\avisynth\mpeg2dec.dll")
v=mpeg2source("d:\test\joy ride\joyride.d2v")
a=wavsource("d:\test\joy ride\joyride.wav")
audiodub(v,a)
bicubicresize(480,480)
trim(0,67636)

I drag this file we will call it joyridetest.avs into CCE, this is were I drop the ball, here are my CCE (2.5) settings:

add seq. end code
progressive frames
linear quant. scale
zigzag scan. order
0 to 255
auto intra DC

I know from using bitrate viewer that the first VOB is upper field first, thats why I didn't check off "upper field first" in CCE.

My standalone is an RCA 5240P, it works great with SVCDs cut with tmpgenc 2.53, I know its not the player.

So can anybody help!? Thanks.

[hwk316]

By the way, I know someone will jump all over this... I also use pulldown.exe once the video is encoded.

Thanks.

[El_Mero_Zooter]

hwk,
question:
Are you able to process the audio separately, and not in cce?
Does it jitter on the pc (powerDvD, winDvD) as well or only on the tv?

I have had this same prob with cce and a couple of dvdz and found it better to do the audio separately (bigUpz to sully,vidguy,sefy,BR, fo all ur help), eg. tmpgenc, toolame, etc..

With the setup you have, try leaving everything as is, and do a test encode with "upper field first" in CCE checked (on).
And see how that goes. Do a small test clip 20, 30 meg or so, burn to cdrw, if available, and test on your dvd player.

I solved my issue by (frameserving with either avisynth or VirtualDub) and leaving Force Film Off (unchecked in dvd2avi--no need for pulldown afterwards), encoding with UpperFieldFirst checked, and leaving Progressive Frames off (unchecked). These svcd's always play on my apex, and that's the only way i could get rid of the jitters.

ZtR

[hwk316]

Hi EL_,

Are you able to process the audio separately, and not in cce?
Does it jitter on the pc (powerDvD, winDvD) as well or only on the tv?

I use tmpg for audio (CCE complains if no there is no audio, its also not checked off in the setup) and no the video is flawless in the above mentioned players.

I solved my issue by (frameserving with either avisynth or VirtualDub) and leaving Force Film Off (unchecked in dvd2avi--no need for pulldown afterwards), encoding with UpperFieldFirst checked, and leaving Progressive Frames off (unchecked). These svcd's always play on my apex, and that's the only way i could get rid of the jitters.

The reason I use force film (i'm sure you know) is to get a higher video bitrate, but I can see forgoing this to get things working. Its worth a try.. any chance of you posting you avisynth script, I'm curious to see what you have down.

hwk.

[PimpInDaHouse]

Are you using pulldown.exe on your .mpv file if not the your movie won't have the 2:3 pulldown it needs to play in a standalone. This is how I do my movies.

Force Film
Make a Dummy .avi
Resize in VDub
Encode CCE Same settings with audio at the same time.
Pulldown.exe
bbmpeg to mux with svcd settings.

Or you can use a guide at Doom9.org plus their forum has a CCE board.

[hwk316]

Hi Pimp,

Yeah, after CCE is done I use pulldown xxxx.m2v yyyy.m2v
do you have anytihing to add to that?

Thanks.

hwk.

[PimpInDaHouse]

There is an update in my post above.

[nsdn]

Why not just use DVD2SVCD. the latest version allows u to intercept the avisynth script in various places...and also allows AVI2 SVCD. It takes chapters directly from the DVD and puts them in the right places on your SVCD...why would u want to do it the hard way?

This is not just for DVD ripping any more its for pure conversion....u can load pretty much any AVI into it including divx.

BTW I have had some problems playing SVCD produced from CCE on a SONY stand alone...slight jitters.....but DVD2SVCD now allows TMPGE to be used and this fixed it.....CCE is better tho for most stand alones

[Poplar]

Here is my two cents on what the problem might be, since I had the same problem some times ago, and it took me several days to figure it out. At first I thought it was a field order problem. So I tried different field order and it made no difference. The problem was, as I found out, that I inadvertently set DAR flag to 16:9 in template I was using. I reset DAR flag to 4:3 and everything was OK. I don't knowif it's the case with you, but it's worth a check.

[hwk316]

Hi Poplar,

I reset DAR flag to 4:3 and everything was OK. I don't knowif it's the case with you, but it's worth a check.

In CCE? I use 16:9 in CCE.

[adam]

Very few dvd players, if any, can properly handle the 16:9 flag that cce sets. This is almost certainly your problem. Set it to 4:3 and do a test encode, I bet it will work.

[El_Mero_Zooter]

hwk,
now that adam, and others pointed it out,, i checked my setup and i do have my flag set to 4:3. Change yours and let us know how u make out with a new encode.
Depending on the project im working on i use virtual dub and/or avisynth to fserv to cce or straight d2v to tmpgenc. Here'a quick avs that I'd use. FitCD will give you an easy way of creating scriptz.

LoadPlugin("C:\mpeg2dec_dll\MPEG2DEC.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\Video\Porkys2-vfapi.d2v {or .avi}")
AssumeFrameBased.SeparateFields
BicubicResize(448,143,0,0.6,22,0,676,288).Weave
TemporalSmoother(2,2)
AddBorders(16,97,16,97)
Trim(0,0).FadeOut(150)


zTr

[FranckV]

You should only check upper field first in CCE if the source AVI is bottom field first. If I understand what you are doing, the VOB file being top field first your settings are right.

Did you check the AVI file ? Are the field still in the same order than in the original VOB ?

You can check the field order in the MPg file using TMPGEnc:
Check the header flag with Bitrate Viewer.
Laod the Mpg file in TMPGEnc, go to settings/advance, select top field first, check deinterlace, double click on the filter, select odd-even field (make sure filter is active) then make the movie move using the slider, if it jitters then it is bottom field first, if it moves fine then it is top field first

[PimpInDaHouse]

I have used 16:9 and it worked on my DVD player just fine. Are you muxing the video the right way? Are you muxing your video right? I use bbmpg to mux my video and sound. Don't use tmpge to mux it sux. Why are you checking linear whatever scale, that is for interlaced movies not progressive. I have been using CCE for a few months now. You said you clip your movie with tmpge and I'm guessing that you are using it to mux also. When I muxed my movie in tmpge I always got a buffer underflow error message and the movie stuttered.

[hwk316]

Hi EL_,

I ran a couple of tests last night and got everything to work, this is what I did (i'll give the short version..)

tmpgenc
loaded xxx.d2v for video and xxx.wav for audio
saved the project xxx.tpr
used VFAPI and made an xxx.AVI
loaded that into CCE , unchecked audio and used a 2 multipass
(I wasn't going for performance.. not yet)

my CCE setting are now:
check the Add Seq.
check the ZigZag
DC Pre.=10
***DAR 4:3*** <this did it I'm SURE!! I always had 16:9
(another thing is that every vid that I did had 'progressive' checked until now too)
did a pulldown.exe
then I muxed using tmpgenc (worked fine, but I'm still experimenting with different proggies)
anyway... I'm not sure how rock solid this setup I'll have to try it with different DVDs.

Thanks for the replies! PS I'll post a final reply with I get the whole thing on CD, its still encoding.

Peace.

[hwk316]

oh and in CCE the Upper Field first is also checked...

hwk.

[PimpInDaHouse]

The upper field first is always checked because that is a bug in CCE no matter if you check it or not it is on anyway.

[FranckV]

Not totally true.

The upper field flag is always set to true in the header but if you check the upper field first option, then CCE swaps the field order, if you don't, it does not.

[El_Mero_Zooter]

HwK,

Kewl, glad to hear it lookz like itz werkin'. Let us know how the final product behavez. I did some other test as well. Here's the psycho beta breakdown.

dvd2svcd =
1 cdr, 98 minz, mpg2, svcd,
300, 890 {or so}, 2500max, 128 audio, 3 pass vbr, 480x480 complaint.
quality was very good, near near-dvd, (not as excellent as same movie on two cd's at 2100 bitrate {or so}, of course, but very decent)

tmpgenc {older 12 series} =
1st movie
1 cdr, 95 minz, mpg2, svcd,
0, 2100-2200 {somewhere there going by memory}, 112 audio, cbr (cq_cbr), 480x480 complaint. Very, very good quality, close to cce.

2nd movie
1 cdr, 91 minz, mpg2, svcd
0, 2200, {or so}, 128 audio, cbr (cq_cbr), 480x480 complaint.
Excellent quality, flick looked like it should be on two cd's, rivaled cce, say, a 2 pass vbr. Audio was a tad low, and the brightness was a notch too bright; but other than that, very good encode.

Lookz like i got these down. Now the new problem i encountered is that Panasonic'z DvDRV-31, won't play svcd's. So now, I'm stuck using my apex , but would like to adopt a setup to play xscvd's. The dvd player list {on this site}, states that this player will play svcd's remuxed with a VCD template non-compliant, using tsunami. So ill give that a try.

Ultimately I need a template to do mpg1 vbr as xvcd or xsvcd to cue up on da panasonic. Any ideaz?


ZtR

[willr666]

What! I am confused about the Upper Field First flag.
(Context, NTSC, Interlaced)
If I use BitRateViewer - and it says 'Upper Field First' then I should
leave the box UNCHECKED (as it is defaulted to this selection)

BUT

If the source is 'Upper Field First: False' then I check the box so that
the default is reversed????

I don't want to waste time trialing this - can someone clue me in on this
(I have been reading through the forums, doom9, cce pdf file) and there
is very little in the way of a 'complete' guide...

tc
Will

[FranckV]

It's been a while since I used CCE but if I remember this right:

CCE always creates the file with upper field first flag set to true in the header (i.e. Bitrate viewer will always report a file created with CCE as being upper field first).

So if interlaced source video is upper field first do not check the upper field first option.

If interlaced source video is lower field first then check it (CCE will set the flag to true in the header and swap the field order).