NTSC - PAL format debate

[SingSing]

I have a NTSC palyer and a NTSC TV.

[Craig Tucker]

I have a NTSC palyer and a NTSC TV.

Yes I gathered that, but they are also obviously capable of playing/displaying a PAL signal (or your pal VCD's would not play correctly). Like I said not all NTSC equipment is capable of this.

[Craig Tucker]

double post

[vitualis]

As what craigtucker said SingSing.

If your TV and DVD player is only capable of NTSC, then you won't be able to watch any PAL material.

You either have a DVD player that can do the standards conversion AND/OR you have a multisystems TV. These are common in many parts of the world but the US seems to be an exception. If you search the forums on PAL/NTSC incompatibility, there are many reports of hapless Americans having to do a software conversion because of their hardware.

Regards.

[SingSing]

I brought back PAL VCD from Asia in the the last few trip. They play fine on my Pioneer DV333 and output NTSC signal.

The VCD vender who is associated with this site is in Malaysia, which used PAL systsem. This company export VCD to U.S. I assume they send their PAL version.

[vitualis]

That assumption may well be wrong. I have a handful of VCDs from Asia and they're all NTSC.

Open up your VCD on your PC and have a look... 29.97 fps = NTSC. 25 fps = PAL.

Regards.

[SingSing]

I have about 50 PAL VCDs, that play ( window media player confirm that thay are all 25 FPS ) on a Pioneer DV333/Sony TV ( both NTSC) bought from Bestbuy. Nearly all of them are factory pressed in Malaysia. A few of them are presses in Honk Kong, and Singapore.

Also see, Baldrick post on :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New features that I may add to our DVD Player compatibility list:


added DVD/VCR combo player


added MPEG1/2 iso , play mpeg1/2 files with no authoring


added MPEG4, DIVX 4 or later


dvd-ram playback


pal/ntsc conversion


Any new features or ideas are welcome. Some features that are already added but currently disabled are: Dolby or DTS integrated encoder, Progressive scan, DVD Audio and SACD (too many reports wrong).

Remember also that all features will be reported by user reports so it will take some time before the list will be kinda accurate.

Last edited by Baldrick on Oct 25 04:58, edited 8 times in total

[vitualis]

That's great for you. It means that you (as mentioned before) either have a DVD player that can convert PAL/NTSC and/or a multisystems capable TV.

Regards.

[SingSing]

I have about 50 PAL VCDs, that play ( window media player confirm that thay are all 25 FPS ) on a Pioneer DV333/Sony TV ( both NTSC) bought from Bestbuy.

They are NTSC only player and NTSC only TV.

There are mpeg1 files for NTSC, NTSC flim, PAL on this site, burn them and try it out yourself. If you don't know how to do this, get some help.
Or get a better quality DVD player. Pioneer DV333 is only $100 plus.

[Craig Tucker]

They are NTSC only player and NTSC only TV.

Well obviously they aren't or you would not be able to play PAL discs correctly. Either your DVD player can convert the PAL signal to an NTSC output or your TV can accept a PAL signal. End of story.

[Craig Tucker]

This place supplies code free Pioneer DV333 players, read the bold red statement.

http://www.sarainternational.com/DVDCODEFREE/PIONEER/CodeFreeDV333DVDPlayer.htm

I would deduce from this that as the Pioneer DV333 is not cabable of converting the NTSC signal to PAL, that your TV is capable of displaying a PAL signal.

[SingSing]

I brought back PAL VCD from Asia in the the last few trip. They play fine on my Pioneer DV333 and output NTSC signal.

Read this again.

[SingSing]

BIG HINT :

There are no format for : PAL film rate.

[Craig Tucker]

I brought back PAL VCD from Asia in the the last few trip. They play fine on my Pioneer DV333 and output NTSC signal.

Read this again.

So what you are saying is that your DVD player is converting from PAL to NTSC ?

Read this again.

That's great for you. It means that you (as mentioned before) either have a DVD player that can convert PAL/NTSC and/or a multisystems capable TV.

[SingSing]

Yes.

I tested with real disc and real equipment.

Morden electronics link DVD players are not link to AC lines, they use internal Dc supply, and internal Crystal clock, and large digital ICs for signal processing and conversions ( 16:9 to 4:3, film rate, Dolby to wave, IR to control.. )

I don't think this is the topic to continue this. Open a new Topic, and you can go for it forever, or until you load and burn those files and test.

[Craig Tucker]

Yes.

Finally, we are in agreement, that is all vitualis and myself were trying to point out, so your DVD player is not NTSC only it is capable of PAL/NTSC conversion.

P.S. I dont need to download the files and do the test. I have a multisystem TV, and my DVD player can output NTSC as PAL60. Hence I can play NTSC or PAL discs.

[SingSing]

Read any VCD capable NTSC DVD player manual, they do not spec a specific VCD format, it just say VCD. The NTSC is always stated as output format.

VCR is driven by actual PAL or NTSC signal. It matter.

DVD/VCD is driven by mpeg which is digital bit stream. Great flexbility.

Choice : 1.Test and confirm, 2. Argue forever.

[Craig Tucker]

Read any VCD capable NTSC DVD player manual, they do not spec a specific VCD format, it just say VCD. The NTSC is always stated as output format.

DVD/VCD is driven by mpeg which is digital bit stream. Great flexbility.

Features for a multi region Pioneer 333, include this statement.

This region free player can play both PAL and NTSC discs on a MULTI-SYSTEM TV ONLY OR WITH A CONVERTER

If the source format does not matter, explain this statement.

[Craig Tucker]

I have split this thread, as it really wasn't helping the poster with his original question.

[SingSing]

The Pioneer DV333 from BestBuy is not multi-region. I was given a few NTSC DVDs "art of war","notting hill"... that are not region 1. I ended up have to convert them to SVCD and watch them.

In US, 16:9 DVD movie are added with black bars and squeeze veritically to play on 4:3 TV. This involved scaling on fly because the video is in mpeg.

The new topic name is incorrect. This should not be " a debate ". This should be about fact, and tested result.

[Craig Tucker]

The fact that it is multi region is irrelevant, it has probrably been chipped. What is relevant is that because it has been chipped it can play region 2 discs which happen to be PAL. However these can only be displayed properly on a multisystem TV. So the DVD player must be outputting a PAL signal not an NTSC one, or there would be no reason for a multisystem TV.

[SingSing]

VCR is driven by actual PAL or NTSC signal. It matter.

It is the reason that you need multi-system TV : the VCR.

[SingSing]

I notice you hide this topic in "off-topic" instead of "DVD-player".
So, this will be my final take on this.

The post is important for many of US already own a pioneer DV333 ( This player is as popular as Apex in US ), that did traveled to Asia, and Australia where PAL VCD is offer at $5.00 to $10.00 a movie. Quite a few older Disney movies are only on VCDs.

The knowledge that these PAL VCD can play on TV is a good shopping tip for us.

[Craig Tucker]

VCR is driven by actual PAL or NTSC signal. It matter.

It is the reason that you need multi-system TV : the VCR.

What ? What on earth does VCR have to do with my previous post, and I quote.

The fact that it is multi region is irrelevant, it has probrably been chipped. What is relevant is that because it has been chipped it can play region 2 discs which happen to be PAL. However these can only be displayed properly on a multisystem TV. So the DVD player must be outputting a PAL signal not an NTSC one, or there would be no reason for a multisystem TV.

Or did you just decide to ignore this because it does not fit with your theory ?

This post was in relation to an excerpt from the pioneers features which reads.

This region free player can play both PAL and NTSC discs on a MULTI-SYSTEM TV ONLY OR WITH A CONVERTER

Did you ignore this also ?

This has nothing to do with a VCR and is completely irrelevant, it clearly states that for the player to play PAL discs correctly it needs to be in conjunction with a multisystem TV. It's there in black and white what more evidence do you want. I can therefore only assume that your TV is multisystem.

Just search the forum and you will find many posts from your fellow countrymen who when trying to play PAL VCD's or DVD's on NTSC only equipment get a black an white picture, this is a well known fact.

As for me hiding this in the off topic forum ?. Is this forum more difficult for you to find ?, I know I dont have any problems. This had become a discussion on PAL - NTSC format issues, on DVD players, TV, and VCR and was no longer just related to DVD players. I therefore moved it to off topic.

[Craig Tucker]

SingSing

Just read this thread.

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127729

Are you convinced yet ?

[vitualis]

I think it is time to just ignore SingSing since he obviously doesn't actually read anything we write.

Once again SingSing, if your equipment was ONLY NTSC capable, it can't play back PAL material. Dozens of unfortunately Americans with NTSC only hardware have written on the forums with this problem.

YOU obviously have either a DVD player capable of converting standards and/or a multisystems capable TV.

That is:
(1) DVD player converting PAL material to NTSC --> NTSC TV looks good!
(2) DVD player outputting PAL material as PAL --> multisystems capable NTSC TV looks good!

However, if you only had NTSC capable equipment:
DVD player outputting PAL material as PAL --> NTSC only TV --> picture looks bad (B/W +/- vertical sync problem).

As for test files SingSing, since I created the Demo VCD that has all the PAL/NTSC test screens and clips I know what players can and cannot do.

Regards.

[Craig Tucker]

SingSing

As for test files SingSing, since I created the Demo VCD that has all the PAL/NTSC test screens and clips I know what players can and cannot do.

How Ironic


I take it from your unwillingness to reply (and your participation in other threads along these lines) you must now realise that you were wrong , but just don't have the decency to admit it.

We all get things wrong on occasion, but I would like to think that most people when confronted with a huge amount of convincing evidence that contradicts their assumptions would accept it and concede their mistake.

This however does not seem to apply to you. You are too egotistical to even contemplate the fact that on this occasion you were mistaken.

You may want me to hide this back in off topic now.

Have a nice day

[SingSing]

I have about 50 PAL VCDs pressed by factory, mostly made in Malaysia. The PALness was confirm by Microsoft Media Player "statistics" to be 25 FPS. 60 minutes of PAL mpeg video can confirm that whether the Movie or Music Video play smoothly, and the sound come out properly or noit.

These PAL VCD did play through properly as whole.

When we test drive the car. We prefer to drive the car out of the dealers lots and out (the whole things) than the license plate( test screens ).

Why you want me to test it, I could be Biased ? I think those PAL mpeg and test screen are good for an indepent person/people to do it.

If not, I will do it, and you just have to take my word or a jpeg shoot of my family room TV screen.

[SingSing]

VCR is driven by actual PAL or NTSC signal. It matter.

It is the reason that you need multi-system TV : the VCR.

What ? What on earth does VCR have to do with my previous post, and I quote.

A standrad DVD player is digital. It can change FPS(flim and NTSC), and rescale vertically on the fly ( example 16:9 to 4: 3 ). It is designed to match the TV set.

VCR is analog. The actual PAL or NTSC signal is recorded on the helical drum and then play back directly. A standard VCR's analog signal can't re-syn or rescale itself. Your multi-system TV does that. User can either hooks a SECAM, or PAL, or NTSC VCR to the same multi-system TV, and watch the different.

[Craig Tucker]

Firstly please read this post thoroughly, as you dont seem to have read any of mine or vitualis' previous posts. Either that or you just decided to ignore the facts contained in them.

The main debating point of this thread is that you said that you can play a PAL disc, on NTSC only equipment. This is UNTRUE.

The fact that you can play PAL discs on your system confirms the fact that you player is converting PAL to NTSC output (an NTSC only player would not do this conversion and output as PAL) or you have a multisystem TV.

How many times do you need telling this before you accept it.

Forget about fps, digital, analogue, vcr, cars or whatever other obscure topic you want to inject into the conversation to detract from the fact that you are wrong, and concentrate on the colour/black and white issue which is the whole point of contention here.

A PAL signal (which is what an NTSC only DVD player will output) fed into a NTSC TV, will result in a BLACK and WHITE picture being displayed.

This is a FACT

Did you read this article that yg1968 posted for you in another thread.

I am sorry but playback in black and white would not be acceptable to me and so I say that in this situation the NTSC only system would not be playing/displaying the disc correctly.

You have been told this in other threads by people other than myself and vitualis, yet you still choose to disbelieve it and continue to argue.

We are not saying that your system does not play the discs correctly, far from it, I am sure they do, and am very happy for you. What we are saying is that in the USA you are in a minority, as few DVD players can do the PAL-NTSC conversion and few TV's are multisystem.

So for you to say that an NTSC only DVD player and NTSC only TV can play PAL discs correctly is not only untrue, but it is also misleading to other readers of this forum, some of who may base the actions they take on advise given here. This is why I feel it is important to try and make sure any information given on this forum is accurate.