Morgan MJPEG is better than DivX5 !

[hypercube]

here my test with virtualdub:

PC:
Athlon 900Ghz
12 Gig Free space on drive.

video properties:
384*288
25fps
from video tape

capture using HuffYuv lossless codec => AVI1 1800KBytes/sec

compress AVI1 with DIVx5 => AVI2 => near 590KBytes/sec
DIVx Setup:
Max quantizer: 2
Min Quantizer: 2
Key frame every seconds.
1000KBit/sec

compress AVI1 with Morgan MJPEG => AVI3 => 590 KBytes/sec
MJPEG Setup:
Target Bitrate: 590KBytes/sec
use Fast integer for compression

I made a program to compare AVI1 with AVI2 and AVI1 with AVI3.

diff between AVI1 and AVI2 : 88%
diff between AVI1 and AVI3 : 78 %


diff is calculated like this:

AVI1 pixel: R1G1B1
AVI2 pixel: R2G2B2

thresold = 10
if (ABS(R1-B2) > thresold &&
ABS(G1-G2) > thresold &&
ABS(B1-B2) > thresold)
{
=> not the same pixel => deterioration detected
}
else
{
=> this is the same pixel
}


The conclusion:
if you plan to capture with High quality (usefull if you want to
make SVCD with TmpgEnc), use Morgan MJPEG codec !!!

HuffYuv is the best but: 1800KBytes/sec => 7min video = 1Gig !!

Morgan MJPEG is better if you don't have a lot of space on your drive.

Don't use Divx if you plan to encode finally with Tmpgenc.
Artefacts will appear.


Note: DivX is the best codec around to encode at LOW bitrate. but not
at HIGH bitrate.

[WildBilly]

I Believe that, but how can i use the Codec with VirtuelDub?
The Codec is not in the Video Compression List in VirtuelDub.

[hypercube]

uh ?

I'm using an ASUS GeForce 2 TI Deluxe. Capture is in YUV.
May your capture card don't capture in YUV. May Morgan
MJPEG accept only YUV as input.

Select YUV in your capture driver setting if you can.

[Anonymous65]

The Morgan Mjpeg codec works fine with Virtualdub (in VFW mode of course) in 24 bit color mode.

Divx is and has always been a low bit rate internet streaming compressor. It is not made for high quality video like mpeg-2 is made for.

[vitualis]

As per skittelsen's post.

MPEG-4 is designed more for retaining good video quality at relatively LOW bitrates as opposed to high bitrates. It doesn't actually surprise me that at the high bitrates you are encoding with, a simple MJPEG codec has greater fidelity.

This is similar to an audio analogy. Although WMA performs better than MP3 at low bitrates, at higher bitrates, MP3 may actually have greater audio fidelity than WMA.

Regards.

[hypercube]

does it exist any codec better than Morgan MJPEG ?

[easydvd]

After I read the posts about this codec, I d'loaded it and gave it a try. I did a series of video captures with an ATI TV Wonder VE card at two resolution settings. Threee captures at 320x240 were made with iuVCR and the morgan codec at three quality settings; 75, 85 and 95. The resulting filesizes were; 22MB, 31MB and 78MB. All were 60 second clips.

I also made three capture with Virtual Dub at 352x480 also with the quality setting adjusted to 75, 85 and 95. The resulting filesizes for these were 42MB, 54MB and 123MB. Again, each was a 60 second clip.

I frameserved all of the avi files with VirtualDub to TMPG and encoded to mpeg2 at 352x480 with a CBR of 2000 and 44.1mhz 224kbs audio.

After this quick testing, I'm pretty impressed with this!! I think I'm getting better capture than with picvideo mjpeg set at 19. I'm thinking of doing a small section of DVD with this and then a VBR 3 pass just so I can see what it looks like with a noise free source.

Overall, if you can't use huffy because of size restrictions, ( like me ) then give this a try. You may be surprised!!

[hypercube]

if you plan to copy any DVD, you can make perfect copy "on the fly"
without using any codec to produce intermediate file.

use DVDX with Premiere Pluggin by Edwin van Eggelen
this pluggin is like Virtual dub Frame server. You can
use TmpgEnc with it.

thank's for your test. But why 3 PASS ?!
is it realy usefull ?

[Fede Pede]

Hi Hybercube.
You Can also try Pegasus PIC Video. This is also a mjpeg Encoder.
I thing it's better then Morgan Mjpeg Encoder, smaller Files-size.
Try set quality to 19.

[Thorn]

Thanks for the scientific test Hypercube.

However, this just reinfoces the established order: Divx is great for mid-low bitrate (just don't go all apeshit and encode to 4bps like retards did with RM) but should never be used in an encode chain. Mjpeg is good for capture or in an encode chain if you don't have the space for Huffyuv.

[paulgab]

[quote="easydvd"]After I read the posts about this codec, I d'loaded it and gave it a try. hat it looks like with a noise free source.

hi! I want to give it a try too. where can I download it?

thanks in advance!

[easydvd]

you can d'load it from the tools section on this site

[hypercube]

is Wavelet codec better than MJPEG ?

[Fede Pede]

is Wavelet codec better than MJPEG ?

Hi...
Look at this site...

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/legacy/ErMaC/guide4.htm

Quote From (http://www.animemusicvideos.org/legacy/ErMaC/guide4.htm)

Recommendations: MJPEG is an old standard. JPEG itself is very outdated - newer image compression formats are vastly superior (like PNG or the upcoming JPEG2000 standard which uses wavelet compression). There are much more refined and better Discrete Cosine Transform-based compression algorithms out there (like DV) that I would recommend over MJPEG. If you've got hardware that supports MJPEG and that's all, then by all means use it, but if you haven't bought hardware yet, I recommend going with DV equipment.

[hypercube]

yes, MJPEG is an old standard. but when you have not enough disk space
for lossless codec, this is a good solution.

about wavelet codec:

PICVideo Wavelet2000 and Morgan MJPEG2000
are too heavy for capture (with my Athlon 900Mhz)

PICVideo MJPEG seems to be better than Morgan MJPEG V3...
(better settings, better compression)

interesting reading:
http://www.merging.com/download/Video%20Support%20Codecs.pdf

[NeVeRLiFt]

LoL

why not try encoding a Huffyuv capture to DivX using say Nandub, DivX5.02 Pro or Fairuse

Then you see how easy it is to make a 2hr movie thats 700mb or less and have quality as good as any SVCD and in most cases better.



http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118091&highlight=

[hypercube]

this is not my plan.

- not enought space to record with Huffyuv (1800KBps)
- output final result into SVCD
- play it on standalone DVD player.

[NeVeRLiFt]

this is not my plan.

- not enought space to record with Huffyuv (1800KBps)
- output final result into SVCD
- play it on standalone DVD player.

ROFLOL


get some :P

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/021022/047810.html





Press Release Source: DivXNetworks


KiSS Technology To Release First DivX(TM) Compatible DVD Player
Tuesday October 22, 8:30 am ET
KiSS DVD Player DP-450 Offers Playback Of Videos Encoded In DivX 4.xx And 5.xx

[vitualis]

That doesn't really have anything to do with the context of this thread does it?

Never believe adverts before the product comes out! You don't know what the machine will REALLY support. It may be able to play DivX4 and DivX5, but it might only do so with certain restrictions. Furthermore, you don't know what sort of audio it will be able to handle.

Of course, VCD and SVCD still have the upper hand when you are talking about player compatibility and the ability to author menus and chapters.

Regards.

[NeVeRLiFt]

@vitualis

You are correct... we dont know the settings the video's will need so they will work. But I read the specs and it seems to support everything we need for audio and then some!

http://www.kiss-technology.com/projects/dvd_450.pdf

[Thorn]

Neverlift... your suggestion is still irrelevant to the thread because the whole reason Huffyuv isn't used is that the space required isn't available. Also note that future technology isn't too useful because:
1. At 400 euro it'll probably sell for around $400 in the US (unless I missed any US-specific comments).
2. If it's anything like my apex (or any other other first-wave region free players): the first players to come out with cool new features that US or international giants don't have usually suffer from poor quality control or simply poor design. Sure my apex was region free before many other players were. It also has a crapy video decoder and you can see that the quality is lower than top-notch players (I'll be getting a new player soon... but probably not a Divx one until the technology goes through the first round of customer-sponsored QA :)

All that aside, it looks like a long-awaited addition to the DVD player market (since the whole firmware hacking to add the divx codec didn't pan out :) so it's a move in the right direction.

[NeVeRLiFt]

@Thorn

If people dont have the harddrive space to use Huffyuv thats fine....
they can use MJPEG

All I'm saying is if you know how to encode to Mpeg4 with something like Nandub, Fairuse, DivX5.02 Pro or XviD then you can have the same quality and great file size

I dont know about you guys but I can Capture to Mpeg4 and it looks great. And I can also capture to WMV9 and it looks great and has a super file size of 6mb per 1min my DivX captures being slightly bigger.

[hypercube]

you are not on the same planet.
I am from planet SVCD and you are from planet DivX.
I play my SVCD on TV, you play your DivX on Monitor.

divX is useless to make SVCD.

>I can Capture to Mpeg4 and it looks great
yes but not.

making SVCD from DivX cause bad quality with many artefact.

divX is VISUALY perfect. But the image is very modified.
This is unusable with any MPEG2 encoder.

[NeVeRLiFt]

you are not on the same planet.
I am from planet SVCD and you are from planet DivX.
I play my SVCD on TV, you play your DivX on Monitor.

divX is useless to make SVCD.

>I can Capture to Mpeg4 and it looks great
yes but not.

making SVCD from DivX cause bad quality with many artefact.

divX is VISUALY perfect. But the image is very modified.
This is unusable with any MPEG2 encoder.

Never said to encode a DivX to SVCD... maybe you need to learn how to read.
As for my DivX cpatures and there quality 8) wanna see some samples?
Will show you my WMV9 capture samples to and blow your little mpeg2 mind :P

And chummer I watch all my movies on my 29" TV using TV-out
People watching my DivX think there watching the DVD or the TV... its just that damn good!

[hypercube]

>Never said to encode a DivX to SVCD... maybe you need to learn how to read.

you are completly out of thread context.
have a good day.

[NeVeRLiFt]

*yawn*

[easydvd]

c'mon now........play nice

[NeVeRLiFt]

c'mon now........play nice

Come on man read the guys posts and then tell me who just stuck their foot in there mouth!

****hypercube wrote:****
you are not on the same planet.
I am from planet SVCD and you are from planet DivX.
I play my SVCD on TV, you play your DivX on Monitor.

divX is useless to make SVCD.

>I can Capture to Mpeg4 and it looks great
yes but not.

making SVCD from DivX cause bad quality with many artefact.

divX is VISUALY perfect. But the image is very modified.
This is unusable with any MPEG2 encoder.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see this guy just does not like DivX/Mpeg4 yet
I show him my samples anytime he wants and I bet you he has a change of heart.

And the point I was making to the starter of this thread was simple. Take and encode that MJPEG capture to DivX and then compare the Quality and the size. If done right it will lose no quality but the size will be 5-12mb per 1min

[crahak]

NeVeRLiFt is 100% right here. hypercube, if you think DivX or XviD looks worse, I think you're doing something wrong. I have yet to see anything mpeg2 (besides an actual retail DVD) that looks better than what I encode in DivX, whatever bitrates they are, no matter what the source is. Sure, mpeg2 at 6000kbps will look better than say, DivX at 500kbps. mpeg2 has it's uses, but it's not perfect. You also seem to think that DivX is a some sort of a transition format, besides it gets converted to (s)VCD. No idea where you got that from ("divX is useless to make SVCD"). That makes absolutely no sense. Also, I don't watch DivX on a monitor. A S-Video output from most video cards will outperform LOTS of (s)VCD rips, whatever you think of it. Oh well.

[hypercube]

dear NeVeRLiFt ,

>As you can see this guy just does not like DivX/Mpeg4 yet
your intellect is impressive.

just a question: Have you ever build a SVCD with Tmpgenc ?

All seems to be clear now: you read some lines in this thread,
you talking about your very interesting life, and if you can,
you sound off about everybody.

very interesting approach.

have you ever read more than 4 lines in this thread ?

do you know I wrote this ?
Note: DivX is the best codec around to encode at LOW bitrate. but not at HIGH bitrate.
Don't use Divx if you plan to encode finally with Tmpgenc. Artefacts will appear.

skittelsen wrote:
Divx is and has always been a low bit rate internet streaming compressor. It is not made for high quality video like mpeg-2 is made for.

vitualis wrote:
MPEG-4 is designed more for retaining good video quality at relatively LOW bitrates as opposed to high bitrates. It doesn't actually surprise me that at the high bitrates you are encoding with, a simple MJPEG codec has greater fidelity.

thorn wrote:
Divx is great for mid-low bitrate (just don't go all apeshit and encode to 4bps like retards did with RM) but should never be used in an encode chain. Mjpeg is good for capture or in an encode chain if you don't have the space for Huffyuv.

then you wrote:
"why not try encoding a Huffyuv capture to DivX using say Nandub, DivX5.02 Pro or Fairuse ?"

wow, very interesting information !

nothing more ?
we were talking about lossless codec, High bitrate encoding chain, then you wrote...
a little advertizing about KiSS DVD Player...
impressive. very very interesting information again...

vitualis try to explain you are out of context...
"That doesn't really have anything to do with the context of this thread does it? "

but like we know, you read only 4 line per thread. So you post the URL
of the DVD player manual.

The only intelligent thing you said in this thread is
"If people dont have the harddrive space to use Huffyuv thats fine....
they can use MJPEG"
that's all.

now you properly polluted this thread, you talk about your fabulous life:
>As for my DivX cpatures and there quality wanna see some samples?
>Will show you my WMV9 capture samples to and blow your little mpeg2 mind

mental age: 2 years old.
brain level: my penis is bigger than yours.
optional level: tendency to crush everyone.

>And chummer I watch all my movies on my 29" TV using TV-out
wow, can you spend the PDF manual of your fantastic TV ?
do you plan to transform your living room in cinema ?
did you feed your dog ?
how long is the radium wavelength ?

>People watching my DivX think there watching the DVD or the TV...
no ? incredible !
what a nice information for this thread !
>its just that damn good!
yes, like all your post

>Take and encode that MJPEG capture to DivX and then compare the Quality and the size.
>If done right it will lose no quality but the size will be 5-12mb per 1min
are you unwell ?
no. you are simply completly out of context since you opened you mouth.
let me explain to you how the life work in this world:

If I want to make a great Video with the best video codec around, I use DivX.
I don't capture with MJPEG or anything else. I capture directly with DivX, of course,
stupid idiot. And If I can, I use the S-Video output of my video card to watch
this perfect movie on my great TV.

If I want to make SVCD, I use MPEG2.
Capturing with very good quality in MPEG2 is impossible. So I must use an intermediate
codec to record the video on my disk without lose quality. Finally I will encode this
BIG video file in MPEG2.
DIVX => MPEG2 => BAD
MJPEG => MPEG2 => GOOD
HUFFYUV => MPEG2 => BEST
that's all. If you don't understand this, read this thread again, and again, and again...

This is the first time I meet such interesting person like you.
thank's for all your participation to this thread.
now you can go back to scool. don't forget to brush your tooth.
how long is the radium wavelength ?
dou you that Second ionization potential of radium is 10.148 V ?
incredible, isn't it ?