130 minute movie, ONE CD, and audio IN SYNC!

[giant.robot]

http://www.angelfire.com/emo/giantrobot

ok.. this is for the newbs out there who have a large AVI file movie and are wondering how to burn it onto a SINGLE CD EASILY, and play it in their VCD compliant DVD player! i made a short guide on my site to help out, it took me about 2 weeks of endlessly searching to find the info that i gained, so here it is!

[El Torro]

the video quality of that will be AWFULL... you don't need to be an expert to know that...

[giant.robot]

no, you dont have to be an expert, just follow my guide. the video quality apparently isnt going to be DVD, but it is very good! :P

[vitualis]

Obviously "good" is rather subjective... Needless to say, the quality will be sub-VCD if you actually did put 130 min on one disc.

BTW, may I suggest you use a colour scheme that is more readable on your "guide".

Regards.

[gll99]

Don't be too critical. I have seen kwag's templates before. They are posted on this site and are the secret to making this work. For Ntsc optimal settings are based on 23.97 framerate and do encode better if the video has a widescreen aspect ratio (black top and bottom). I must admit that they are the best templates I have used. I can't get optimal cause my player supports only 29.97 but its worth checking those templates out.

I haven't tried the posted guide but will when I can so I can't comment now. But giant.robot I agree that red on black is ok but otherwise very hard to see.

I'll have to look at that ac3 thing ?? Try to expand the explanations if you can.

Thanks

[giant.robot]

Don't be too critical. I have seen kwag's templates before.

But giant.robot I agree that red on black is ok but otherwise very hard to see.

I'll have to look at that ac3 thing ?? Try to expand the explanations if you can.

Thanks

in my first post, i said newbies, "if your having problems" and yes, i used the kwag template, the guide blatantly points that out, heh. it works! lol

i updated again, now with screenshots, explanation of the "ac3 thing", and black font!

[gll99]

giant.robot

Much easier to read and improvements too.

You were clear about using kwags templates but some newbies might not appreciate just how good those are.

Just a suggestion if you don't mind.

You might want to change your link so it hits the guide without having to go through those ???? pics.

The more direct the route the less likely to lose a part of the audience.

cheers

[giant.robot]

hallowicked spirit

[crahak]

Wow. I find normal VCD pretty bad quality overall. 130 minutes on a CDR? Oh gawd. I don't care what anyone ways, that just can't look too great. We're talking pixels per bit there, not bits/pixel... If not frames per bit. Sorry, i'll skip on that one.

[giant.robot]

i dont have an extra 300 bucks laying around for a DVDR drive and 10 bucks for each peice of DVDR media. i dont like piles of CDR's laying around for one movie (that cost money). and most imporantly i dont like 800 megs eaten up on my hard drive to slow my computer down. thats the whole reason i made this post. sorry if i offended you by sharing my thoughts/solutions for individuals with low budget and want to watch some vcds. my female companion doesnt like watching movies on the floor next to my computer while i sit on my comfy computer chair, so i had to compromise.

imho - if you wanted to pass, you shouldnt have even clicked on the thread.

now if you'll excuse me, i have some wild arms 3 to play.

[giant.robot]

oh and by the way, if you want to see some samples of the media
using the kwag template -----(without wasting your time) -----

http://www.kvcd.net/dvd-models.html

[kwag]

Hi giant.robot,

I just crack up every time someone says that something over two hours can't look good Don't you think?
Let's give them a direct link for the ones that still don't believe, or keep being misled by others, that you can indeed get a VERY good watcheable video of ~180 minutes like this: http://www.kvcd.net/greenmile-lbr.mpg
Now that's a sample from the complete 180 minutes encoded movie with KVCD_LBR template that fits in your pocket on a single CD-R. Now, is that unwatchable? I don't think so

Enjoy,
-kwag

[crahak]

Depends what you see as quality. Something around 2000kbps, 2 pass VBR Divx 5 is what i define as ok, I fit all my rips on 2 CDR's, and they fit nciely in CD Wallets. Oh, no offense, but I can make my own templates. It didn't offend me (your post), but I cannot imagine that looking good. Oh well. Have fun.

[MaDmiZe]

First I want to say ...I have a DVD player, Digital cable, and a four head Hifi VCR...I know what DVD, digital broadcast and VHS movies look like.

I have no problem putting 120 minutes on a single VCD (nonstandard of course) ALL my VCDs are one movie one CD and I feel that most of them have the same ...if not better quality as a VHS tape.

For those who want DVD....nothing will beat the DVD quality...So get your DVD burner and have at it. But lay off the constant put downs of VCDs... this site is VCDhelp..and there are those of us who enjoy them and like to tweak them to their limit.

Good job giant.robot ...and kwag keep up the good work.

[gll99]

Keep in mind that only 2 new users made negative observations.

The 3rd one was made by an experienced moderator but I am sure that he never had the opportunity to see any sample video's.

When I first discovered kwag's site about 7 or 8 months ago I was floored by the video samples that I saw. The stop action was crisp and clear and I could create xvcd at sizes 704x480 that occupied less space than my previously standard vcd's. The templates have been improved even further since then. There are templates for those who want to keep their movies on 2 cd's and that's ok too because some high actions movies will look better with the 2 cd templates.

Some pretty interesting things can be done with the gop structures and other optimized settings in tmpgenc. kwag and those who helped in testing have taken advantage these settings and other tweaks to develop some excelent templates.

I say to everyone don't let your skepticism and preconceptions limit your options. Check it out for yourselves. At least download a sample. Look at the filesize and the timeline and do the math.

Then run your own tests.

[kjmacke]

I downloaded it and it didn't look to bad at all. You guys doing all the bad mouthing I noticed you never said anything about the download kwag provided for the test. I guess as usual most people just assume. Nice work kwag.

[dvfan]

Hey, somone help, i encoded the Godfather Part 3 using TMPEnc and the KVCD template LBR 23.fps that is supposed to do 180 minutes per cd, the movie is 160 minutes rather then 180 and after encoding the file is 939 megabites

[kwag]

Hey, somone help, i encoded the Godfather Part 3 using TMPEnc and the KVCD template LBR 23.fps that is supposed to do 180 minutes per cd, the movie is 160 minutes rather then 180 and after encoding the file is 939 megabites

Hi dvfan,

You can follow this thread: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1294 and use the method provided to manually calculate the CQ_VBR value to fit your movie.
Or you can download the Candidate Release #3 version of DVD2SVCD here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=afe26edba3bc16a36b24f9c12215b6c1&threadid=3567...d&pagenumber=1 which already includes KVCD Quantization Matrix as an option. Go here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1478 and download the kvcd_lbr.ini file, and with a couple of mouse clicks, you'll have your KVCD made automatically

Enjoy,
-kwag

[crahak]

Well, like gll99 was saying, it depends what quality you're after. I want DVD like. I don't mean kwag's templates are bad either, but fitting that much on a disc won't give you DVD-like quality. No way. But again, I know people that listen to WMA 22khz 64kbps intead of mp3's and they love it. so, It all depends on what you want. Oh well.

[kwag]

Well, like gll99 was saying, it depends what quality you're after. I want DVD like. I don't mean kwag's templates are bad either, but fitting that much on a disc won't give you DVD-like quality. No way. But again, I know people that listen to WMA 22khz 64kbps intead of mp3's and they love it. so, It all depends on what you want. Oh well.

Hi crahak,

If you only want DVD quality, try the KDVD Full D-1 templates. You'll get between 4-5 hours full DVD quality on a DVD(+-)R or up to 8 hours with the KDVD Half D-1 ( 352x480 ).

-kwag

[vitualis]

Hey, look. I think kwag's templates are quite good... kwag and I have our disagreements but I think we're still on friendly terms...

However, I think my original comments were fair. I doesn't matter what XVCD template you use, putting 130 min on one CD will have the video quality at SUB-VCD quality.

That is "less than standard VCD".

This may not be "bad" and it may be completely watchable on some movies for you.

Regards.

[dvfan]

I dont know but what i gather so far is that Crahak and Vitualis go around putting everyone's guides down, and Maverick loves to promote Ulead

[gll99]

dvfan

My 2nd or 3rd 2 cents worth:

To me its more about pespective. Someone somewhere wants to put 2 hours or more on 1 cd (not 2 or more) and do it with the best quality possible. giant.robot 's guide, using kwags templates was showing how this could be done with very good results. It's not a competition with any other format or anything else.

When we lose sight of the objective presented by giant.robot then its easy to say that if we had a 9 layered 3D DVD at 100,000 kb/s bitrate etc... that it would be better... and on and on. DVD, CVD SVCD are another story and require more than 1 cd.

vitualis and kwag and these other guys know more about B,P I frames and gop structures than we'll ever know but I think the objective was lost in the discussion with the first answer this thread received.

What I would have liked to hear from knowledgable people like vitualis is how you would proceed to help someone who asked you how to put a 2 hour + movie on 1 cd. Then it would have been far more interesting and informative because we could have examined alternatives.

The rest of us could have made constructive suggestions on how to improve the guide.

I read the guide but unfortunately I am waiting for a new HD, I am full up so can't do too many tests right now.

Cheers

[snowmoon]

My .02USD

Despite all of the mpeg tricks played I would not want to place more than 60 minutes/disc and more like 40-45minutes/disc.

Some things that nobody seems to be able to take into account. First off TV size makes a big difference. I shoot for utmost quality since I have a 25" and 42" HDTV WS sets. I also have a keen undersatnding of MPEG encoding and artifacts just bug the crap out of me. If you have a 13" set and have been raised on satellite TV you might never be able to notice the difference, but it's like night and day on a larger set.

So when someone says that something is good enough you have to take into account how they are watching it. The difference between DVD and VCD is hardly noticable is your TV has overlapping scanlines and poor lines of resolution. If you plan on others watching with then you need to think about more than how you see it.

Just my simple opinion.

[crahak]

Wow. I never thought this would get this far. I am not here to put guides down, just saying I like other methods, that have been documented/already have 1000's guides for. As for maveric, well, it screamed "Ulead" out loud, but if it works for someone. Oh well, so be it. I'm not saying kwag's stuff is bad at all either. But as virtualis is also saying, you can only fit so much on a CD, regardless of format/template/resolution. I find VCD bad enough as it is, so this "less than standard VCD" can't be much better. Sure, kwag's other templates can be very useful, just saying I can't imagine trying cramming all this on to a disc and watching it. Oh well. Let there be joy.

[dvfan]

snowmoon:

I am so glad you have an HDTV and a 25", that is sooooooooooo Great! All I can say is that if i could afford an HDTV i would definately afford a dvd burner or would just purchase the movies and watch them rather then learning stuff on vcdhelp.com

[kwag]

Well, about Sub-VCD quality, I'll give you all my thoughts.
Right now, if you use this: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1478 and apply the ini file supplied as it is to DVD2SVCD, I guarantee that you'll get higher quality ( in terms of blockiness ) than a standard VCD on just about any movie up to ~120 minutes. The reason is that the MAX bit rate I set to work with the program, using the KVCD_LBR parameters, is 2,300Kbps. The MIN is set at 128Kbps. So on high action scenes, where you would normally see blocks on a VCD, there are absolutely zero, if made with this method.
As far as resolution quality, it will be the same as a VCD, because it's 352x240. But the quality is "a-la-par" with the best standard VCD that you can make. You'll see less artifacts with this method than with a standard VCD. That's the bonus of the Q. Matrix.

-kwag

[gll99]

I am only defending the objective of this thread.

I don't think it is a poll asking everyone who wants to put a movie on 1 cd to put up their right hand and those who don't their left.

To be fair though guys, do you think the discussion helps giant.robot
improve his guide.

I have no movies myself that I want to put on 1 CD they are too cheap to worry about but that has nothing to do with this thread.

The point is someone out there wants to cram 2 hours + on 1 cd and they want the best quality possible and this thread has offered them a way to do it.

This topic has come up before on other boards so its not far out.
Cheerio

[barryb]

kwag wrote

Let's give them a direct link for the ones that still don't believe, or keep being misled by others, that you can indeed get a VERY good watcheable video of ~180 minutes like this: http://www.kvcd.net/greenmile-lbr.mpg

Kwag,
The sample above looks pretty look. Is it sourced from a DVD? Looks like it. Can you put up a sample of something fast motion?

[kwag]

kwag wrote

Let's give them a direct link for the ones that still don't believe, or keep being misled by others, that you can indeed get a VERY good watcheable video of ~180 minutes like this: http://www.kvcd.net/greenmile-lbr.mpg

Kwag,
The sample above looks pretty look. Is it sourced from a DVD? Looks like it. Can you put up a sample of something fast motion?

I don't have a sample right now, but you won't see blocks on high motion either, because the MAX bit rate is set to 2,300Kbps. CQ_VBR keeps a linear quality throughout the picture, no matter if it's low action or high action. Unless you have something like a waterfall or something like that, where the bit rate will indeed go up to 2,300Kbps. Then you'll (probably) see some blocks, but only if you pause your movie. On a regular 1,150Kbps VCD, you know what you'll see ( or won't s see )
Just encode a small sample and see for yourself.

-kwag