130 minute movie, ONE CD, and audio IN SYNC!

[vitualis]

@ kwag: Interesting assertion kwag...

I wouldn't necessarily think that having a higher max. bitrate (though it would help) would necessarily massively improve the overall quality of the video. This is simply due to diminishing returns. The longer the film on the same disc (i.e., lower average bitrate) the less space you have to move the variable bitrate downwards and still retain "acceptable quality" (let us say transparent with standard VCD quality).

For say a movie with some reasonable action and then some slower scenes (e.g., LOTR), have you ever used a bitrate analyser on the encoded video to see what the bitrate actually does? You may be able to get some interesting information out of it in optimising your templates.

@ dvfan: You still don't understand what a "discussion forum" is do you? It is for people to trade ideas. BTW, if you have a question separate to the question in the main thread, start a new thread please. Don't hijack another one.

@ everyone: remember that quality is relatively subjective. There are people on this forum who claim that VCDs look like crap to them, even well made ones. Presumably, these people find video quality short of SVCD or DVD unenjoyable to watch. At the other extreme, you will find reports of curious individuals who would claim that their VCDs "look like DVDs" to them (even standard ones). Most of us lie between these two extremes. Just because something looks OK to you doesn't mean it will do so to everyone. Also, try to keep things on a relative level. Does it look "better or worse than standard VCD or VHS?". That way, everyone can have an idea at how good it is.

Regards.

[scissors]

Haven't been in these furoms for a while - been a bit busy with my dvd-r writer.

I could not believe my eyes when i saw this king of thread still is going on.
Even more so I couldn't believe the kudos that KWAG still gets.

You'd think he actually made tmpeg not just some bloody template.
(strange the way he appeared as shizzon disappeared).

Anyway - I look forward to the day Kwag starts telling us all that 4 films on one dvdr is not enough and that with his super kwagdvdr templated he can get 8 films that are actually better than the originals.

[Faceman101]

I have the Ring 2 on VCD and I'll tell you that thing looks very close to the DVD, know why? It's a dark movie and slow moving. That is where VCD looks good (constantly), that sample that was posted is that case in point.

That sample also has a peak of 649kb or so, that's pretty low, looks good b.c of the res. On the computer it looks decent, exported to TV it shows alot of soft blocks, lack of detail, very dull colours.

If you aren't a videophille you can probably stand it.

IMO it isn't worth it b.c of the advent of cheap DVD-R media. Now that's my opinion and no one should argue it, just like how you shouldn't argue anyone saying they are happy with 130+ on one cd.

I'm not going to suggest anyone to use this method, but if you like it, all power to you. That's how everyone should look at it, it's not like communism. No reason to say all bad things about it and worry it's going to take over.

[Tommyknocker]

The strange thing about this thread to me is the majority of the ones who think it cannot be done have not even tried to see for themselves if it works. They have looked at the specifications, shook their heads and stuck their proverbial heads in the sand.

Now, I ask all of you gurus who have used Kwag's template and have found it wanting to speak up. Those of you who have "used the force" and have decided it cannot be done without any clinical testing, I kindly ask to hold your opinions until the trials are in. It is only fair to Kwag.

P.S. I am running my own conversion using his template. If it is anything like that sample, then we have a winner!

[bilbogod]

Ahhhhh!!...........120 min + mass debates...sigh. those were the days Sadly degree work prevents me keeping track with Kwags frenetic developments. Seems like there really is something for everyone now, if these new ini files that he's created enable one click decisions to be made between the templates on offer within dvd2svcd. The fact remained before that anyone seeking visual perfection from deviating from the "standards" had got a hella of a lot of homework to do. Choice is a great thing, I only worry that come the day that we all have dvd burners our hobby will die.
@scissors - Shizzzon ha ha............
p.s. Having recently acquired broadband I just wish there were a few people sharing kvcds out there (ahem...cough... strictly for evaluation purposes )

[Tommyknocker]

What did Bilbogod just say?

[scissors]

[quote="bilbogod"]Ahhhhh!!...........120 min + mass debates...sigh. those were the days Sadly degree work prevents me keeping track with Kwags frenetic developments. Choice is a great thing, I only worry that come the day that we all have dvd burners our hobby will die.
@scissors - Shizzzon ha ha............
quote]

Life and a family generally keeps me away. As for the dvdburners, got one about 4 months ago. NEVER looked back. And the best thing about 1/2 d1 DVDs. My mate can demux them and burn them as non-compliant SVCD that work on ALL svcd players cus really they are a dvd compliant format.

And for anyone thinking I was knocking the whole 120+ mins svcd thing - I wasn't. I just can't believe these shit threads keep going and that Kwag is forever lurking ready to kidnap the thread - infact i'm wondering if he wasn't shot dead in a certain Moscow theatre this week

[crahak]

Wow. Why did I know this thread would get this long? TommyKnocker: well, I can make my own templates or choose settings, mind you, I think kwag's work is excellent, and he's great help to the community and I thank him for that too. But, I do want more than 352x240, and higher bitrates. Like virtualis is saying, I have a friend at work ripping VHS tapes to VCD using XP's M$ movie maker directly, and he claims it's almost better than DVD, whereas I am far from that opinion. Anyways, I'm not revisiting this thread cause it's getting unnecessarily long, and is mostly about appreciation of the results. Like it? By all means use the template. Just like my boss who listens to WMA audio at 64kbps 22khz and love it. HE thinks that's CD Audio qual by him, whereas some people would exopect more than CD Audio... Want DVD, or slightly-short of DVD quality? Use something else. I think it's pointless trying to argue this one anymore. You can use that template, if you like the results then enjoy. Bye Bye Now.

[snowmoon]

snowmoon:

I am so glad you have an HDTV and a 25", that is sooooooooooo Great! All I can say is that if i could afford an HDTV i would definately afford a dvd burner or would just purchase the movies and watch them rather then learning stuff on vcdhelp.com

Um... I've been doing this for close to 3 years now, I got the HDTV since I wated to watch my DVD collection. I make SVCD's of TV shows since I find it's not worth ym time to copy movies I just buy them. And whenI purchased the TV in question over a hear ago a DVD burner was still quite an expence.

So please don't flame people unless you know what you are talking about. I was mearly pointing out that your TV makes a HUGE difference on what you consiter "good".

[kwag]

@ kwag: Interesting assertion kwag...

I wouldn't necessarily think that having a higher max. bitrate (though it would help) would necessarily massively improve the overall quality of the video. This is simply due to diminishing returns. The longer the film on the same disc (i.e., lower average bitrate) the less space you have to move the variable bitrate downwards and still retain "acceptable quality" (let us say transparent with standard VCD quality).

For say a movie with some reasonable action and then some slower scenes (e.g., LOTR), have you ever used a bitrate analyser on the encoded video to see what the bitrate actually does? You may be able to get some interesting information out of it in optimising your templates.

Hi Michael,

Yes, that is exactly what I have done in the past with every template. I always did many test runs, and analyzed the result with bit rate viewer. That is the way that I determined the best GOP settings. Different GOP's created different quality/bitrate curve. That's why I also had to do a Q. Matrix and match it with the GOP. You see, the KVCD Q. Matrix if used with the standard MPEG GOP sux bit time. It's designed to make a smaller file size than with any other Q. Matrix. I tried all the matrixes that are available, and a same sample clip makes a larger file size with them. But that was goal #1. To reduce the file size for a constant X time. So now with the matched pair of matrix/GOP, is where you get the artifacts and macroblocks reduced.
And you're correct, the higher bit rate doesn't make the video look any better on regular scenes. Only on high speed scenes, it will look better than a regular VCD, because there's no bit rate starvation as in a VCD. Other than that, it will look the same as a constant bit rate encoded VCD on low action and normal action scenes. That applies ONLY for a movie up to ~120 minutes. I did clearly specify that the KVCD_LBR 180 minute template was done for "convenience" read here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1211 and not quality. But we got the bonus of actually getting VCD quality up to around 120 minutes.
The average bit rate for the complete "The Green Mile" is only 440Kbps . The sample above is 473Kbps. And that is what I mean really low bit rate. Just try a min=128, max=2,300 and AVG=473 multipass encode with any encoder with the standard GOP and matrixes and see what you get. I tried it with TMPEG and CCE, and it looks like a 384Kbps RealMedia streamed video 8)

Regards,
-kwag

[phishwak]

@Scissors - 118 people dead and you think thats amusing ? What a twat you are. Crawl back under your stone.

[scissors]

@Scissors - 118 people dead and you think thats amusing ? What a twat you are. Crawl back under your stone.

oh piss off and get a sense of humour you righteous ****.

[snowmoon]

I don't know what type of full moon is eating everyone, but if you don't stay on topic this will have to be locked.