quality tweaking mpeg for VCD

[kirby_q]

Well, I would imagine this question has been asked a thousand times in here but I can't seem to find the answers I want, so I'll ask again.

What are the highest quality settings possible within TMPGEnc to convert a DV-AVI to MPEG-1 that will work to create a VCD using Easy CD Creator 5?

The source footage was captured via firewire from an XL1 so it is very high quality 720x480, exported as AVI-DV 29.97fps 100% quality.

The burn is successful on my PC, my DVD player recognizes and plays the VCD, the audio seems fine, and the picture doesn't stutter. However, the picture is VERY pixelized. I'm sure ai have watched VCDs before that looked much "cleaner" than this does. My DVD player is a Pioneer DV-414 so DVDs and VCDs are all it can handle - and I don't have a DVD burner.

I have been playing with this for a while and just can't come up with a quality solution. Whenever I attempt to bump up any of the settings, Easy CD Creator gives me errors about the video bitrate and system clock reference.

Am I just dreaming or can I tweak these TMPGEnc settings to work better for me?

Thanks much for any help.

[ya_jai]

After I check complatible with your dvd player
here: http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=DV-414&DVDselect=Pioneer&Submit=Search&Search=Search
Your player can handle only VCD not XVCD nor SVCD. So I guess you have to live with standard format which is video bitrate 1150 and audio at 44.1Khz, 224 kbit/sec. Or you can tweak a bit more to video bitrate 1246 and down audio to 44.1khz @ 128 kbit/sec

[kirby_q]

The picture quality on this particular series of clips is more important than the sound quality. Do you know how low I can set the audio bitrate and still successfully add that bitrate to the video (using TMPGEnc and Easy CD Creator 5)?

I know the quality of VCD is not what SVCD or DVD is, but I didn't think is was THIS bad.

Thanks much for your help.

[kirby_q]

ok, don't understand this at all.

A clip with these file specs works fine:
Audio bitrate: 224
Video bitrate: 1150
Total bitrate: 1764 (not sure how they calculated that)
Frame size: 352x240
Frame rate: 29.97
System clock reference: 1200

However if I raise the video bitrate and lower the audio bitrate by the same amount, it gives me errors on video bitrate and system clock reference. I've tried it at 1246/128, 1214/128, and 1278/64 all with the same errors.

Does anyone here know the true limitations of video bitrate and audio bitrate for a VCD? Also would like to be enlightened on what the "System clock reference" is and what the limitations are there.

[vhelp]

kirby,

To spare you the agony... when it comes to DV CAMing videos:
* 1, you're not hollywood, so don't expect DVD quality JUST BECAUSE you
have a DV cam that can give you 720x480, hence the notion of DVD quality.
* DVD qulality is just that DVD, but from the camer and equipment that
Hollywood uses and edit/production equipment and time spent to ie color
correct/enhance the final outcome to DVD disk.
* once you understand this, then you wont misunderstand why your DV footage
is not DVD quality.

ok, NOW to your question.
As I was say... the reason why you see so much pixelation in your VCD could
be due to:
* poor DVD player features/abilities, even if it sys VCD on it
* AND, because your DV cam only shoots in 29.970 framerate**.

FRAMERATE:
* because your source is DV cam, hence the lens, your framerate is stuck
at 29.970 and you CANNOT cange this to 23.976 which would give you the less
pixels at VCD standards. Also factor in how you hold your camera and swing
it around a lot and make fast movements w/ it and zoom in and out etc.
A tripod is the way to go, but thier a gaget that allows you to hold or lay
your camera while you shoot video and it minimizes the move/jerks that we
peopes have in are arms (shakes)
I forget what it's called. Does anyone know the name?
* back to framerate... so, you can't convert your DV home-made video to
23.976, you have to stick w/ the 29.970, so you have to expect a lot of
pixelation. but now that you understand this, learn how NOT to move your
camera so much and find a good tripod and learn how to move it when you
need to while camera is on it and you are taking video footage. I've done
this w/ several baby showers and video came out great. No, not
DVD quality. No such thing in a DV cam - I don't have hollywood behind me.
* Ok, now, those who have PAL version of DV cams can ustulize the benefits
of DV to VCD because PAL versions are 25 fps.
* there are some DV cams that can swith from 29.970 to 23.976 but those,
from what I understand are in the THOUSANDS for whatever reasons. Not
worth getting unless you're rich, or work for a company that you can snow
them into getting for you etc.

Ok, that said, your next alternative is to go SVCD, but make sure yours
and others DVD player will play them. Only way to knwo this is to make
a small clip into SVCD and play in all those dvd palyers that will be
used to view your DV footage.
To make a someone successful DV-TO-SVCD (home-made footage), do the following:
* load in you SVCD template
* load the "unlock.mcf" (if you have to)
* make any other changes, as I don't know how experienced you are in such.
* bitate ie would be 2400 to 2520
* under Video tab, set to Inverse 32 and under Advanced tab, set to
- Interlace
* set Field Order to Bottom Field (Filed B) for DV. weather your goal is VCD
or SVCD, this must be met (and may be part of the cause of your pixels)
* now, enocde your video.

Note, the above should look pretty good. But, if you made lots of movements
in your DV footage, well, you'll have to learn how to how and use self-control
in your DV CAMs movements!

Well, I have a huge headacke, no thanks to you, he, he... so, i'm gonna
find some asperines.

Good luck.
-vhelp

[kirby_q]

Hmmm... interesting reply vhelp.

I am rather familiar with tripods; this footage was shot on a high end Bogen tripod with a very nice Manfrotto fluid head (which was moved very little). The Canon XL1 is a 3CCD camera with quite nice optics and I am more than happy with the quality of the source footage. Even when I copy it down to VHS, it looks a thousand percent better than VCD. I though maybe I was doing something wrong.

I'm gathering that the bottom line is - VCD quality sucks due to bitrate restrictions.

My DVD player doesn't play anything other than VCD and DVD, and I don't have a DVD burner.

So... I was just trying to find someone who could let me know the specifics on exactly how far I can push the quality (bitrate) settings on VCD. Maybe this is as good as VCD gets and I'm just going to have to wait until I have a DVD burner. I'm assuming the quality can be pushed much farther in that format??

[ya_jai]

You can try the header trick or something to lure your dvd player to play SVCD. I have read that trick here in this forum and a lot claim that it work with them. do some serch and you will find your way. :P

[Olli]

You can create XVCD (out of spec VCD) and put the bitrate/res as high as your player will support.

My DVD player for instance does not support SVCD, but I create XVCD's with

- res of 480x576
- Bitrate 2300 (the max rate my player will go to)

... the quality is very good.

[ya_jai]

Hi olli, kirby's player doesnt support XVCD nor SVCD, that why he/she have to stuck with std vcd format.

[Nelson37]

First, VCD bitrates are LOCKED, any modification means XVCD, which may or may not play in any particular player. Since "XVCD" doesn't mean anything in particular, to say a player is "XVCD compatible" is meaningless. (at what bitrate? what resolution?)

Try VBR and/or slight increases in bitrate (1250), most players seem to handle this. Letterboxing is another way to increase apparent quality. IVTC is good but doesn't apply to you for DV.

The best answer for Standard VCD is to apply a smoothing filter to reduce bitrate-consuming noise and detail.