23.976 to 29.976 conversion question??

[andyg]

I've had an annoying problem this weekend. I have been reading through the posts and maybe I have found a solution but don't know the best way around it.

I own an Alba DVD 103 player and it appears to be having a few problems playing disks that I have encoded with a framerate of 23.976 (NTSC film) Every so often the video slows down with audio carrying on as usual and then speeds up to catch up the audio. Does anyone have the same DVD player as me and has had the same problem? Anyway, from what i've read, the DVD player converts the framerate from 23.976 to 29.976 and then sends the signal to the TV (or something like that) Some DVD players have difficulty with these conversions. So, is it easy, using TMPGEnc to make a VCD with 29.976 frames as opposed to 23.976. Do I simply check the 3:2 pulldown box in the advanced options and then encode? I'm not an expert at framerate conversion and would like the most straight-forward method of converting if possible. Thanks

[IremainAMisterE]

I have a similar problem and question below, but it seems like no one knows or is not answering?

[LanceSteel]

Do I simply check the 3:2 pulldown box in the advanced options and then encode? I'm not an expert at framerate conversion and would like the most straight-forward method of converting if possible. Thanks

Yes, the dvd standard has to be either 29.976fps NTSC or if the video is 24fps you have to use the 3:2 pulldown option during the encode.

[adam]

The 3:2 pulldown only applies to SVCDS and dvds have their own version of pulldown referred to as RFF/TFF flags.

Unlike with SVCDS and DVDS, the VCD standard actually supports 23.976fps. If you encode at this framerate then the dvd player is supposed to recognize it as a VCD by the file header and automatically do a real time telecine as it plays, basically it converts it to 29.97fps. Its true that not all dvd players can do this real time telecine well with VCDS, though SVCDs and obvously DVDs don't seem to present a problem. However, if your dvd player truly did have a problem telecining VCDs then I think the skipping/speedup issues you are experiencing would be more common and at a constant interval, for instace every 4 secs or so.

You didn't mention what the source for these VCDS was. If the source is DVD then you need to ensure that you preserve the 24fps of your source before simply encoding to 23.976fps. Load your vobs in dvd2avi and preview them. Let it get past the credits and if it says %95 or higher film then enable forced film and in your encoder encode to 23.976fps. If it says anthing else then you cannot use forced film. You need to either encode at 29.97fps or do an inverse telecine (TMPGenc has this option in the advanced settings) and encode at 23.976fps. Sometimes an inverse telecine is not possible and you are stuck with 29.97fps.

If your source is not a dvd and is at 23.976fps already then you should be ok. If its 29.97fps then you either need to do an inverse telecine or encode at 29.97fps, and again an inverse telecine will not always work.

You should definitely try to get these ntscfilm VCDS working before resorting to encoding at 29.97fps. By encoding in ntscfilm you gain %20 more bitrate and that makes an incredible difference in quality, especially with VCDs where the bitrate is already so low.

[andyg]

Okay, so let's just say that my DVD player is struggling to real time telecine my 23.976 NTSC film to 29.976 then can I not use TMPGEnc to telecine the file for me before I burn to disk so my DVD player doesn't have to do that. I mean, I have to encode anyway so why not do both at the same time? If so, how do I do it? I'm not really bothered about my file being bigger or the quality reducing a little as long as my DVD player will play it and the end result is smooth-ish. Also, this 3:2 pull down is still confusing me. I've heard that this only applies to SVCD but why are there two 3:2 pull down options in TMPGEnc? One in the VIDEO tab which is locked until you are encoding SVCD and one in ADVANCED which you can tick regardless of what the end format you are encoding to. What is this one in advanced for then??

[adam]

Yes you could just do a hard telecine yourself. That is what the 3:2 pulldown option in the advanced tab is for. If you're ever confused about an option in TMPGenc just rest your mouse cursor over it. If you have 23.976fps video and you check the 3:2 pulldown box in the advanced tab then it will perform a telecine to 29.97fps. I don't know how well TMPGenc does this but like I said, this should be a last resort because your quality literally is %20 worse since you have increased the total number of frames by %20.

The 3:2 pulldown option on the video tab is for adding the pulldown flag to the video so that the hardware/software player will do a soft telecine, basically a telecine as it plays. Again, this only applies to SVCDs as it should be done automatically with VCDS.

You still have not told us what your source is. If it is dvd then follow my previous advice and simply uncheck forced film. This will give you 29.97fps video and you will not have to bother with the time consuming, and highly lossy, conversion from 23.976fps to 29.97fps.

[E.O.T.]

Adam,
I too am having this problem, except I am using an Apex 110W DVD player, The files I am running are .avi downloads form a p2p that are at 23.976 fps, I have checked a forum dedicated to Apex players and they tell me I must convert these files to 29/30 fps for them to show correctly in my unit. How do I use TMPGE to do this????
Is there a post on this or a step - by - step guide ???
Thanks
-E.O.T.

[kwag]

If you guys have some time on your hands, get a cup of coffe or tea, and follow this thread
Many Apex tips and tricks to play 23.976fps mpegs, which also apply to many other brands, and let you retain the best quality by encoding at 23.976fps.

http://kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38&highlight=bbmpeg+remux&sid=d5372251765ddfaa6970e14c0ce9663b

-kwag