4x DVD+R, 4x DVD+RW, Serial ATA, 16MB Buffer, 240 Euro

[Kennyshin]

Third Generation DVD+RW specification

Ricoh MP5140+SA (Serial ATA)

4x DVD+R write
4x DVD+RW write
16MB buffer memory
Serial ATA interface

Estimated price: 200 (?) - 240 Euro

[Kusanagi]

Enough with the DVDplusRW links (and rumors)! (Didn't we go through this already?)

A link to an ACTUAL product page would be more acceptable.


Kusanagi

[Kennyshin]

Enough with the DVDplusRW links (and rumors)! (Didn't we go through this already?)

A link to an ACTUAL product page would be more acceptable.


Kusanagi

The source is DVD-SVCD Forum in Germany and a DVD-SVCD Forum member mentioned it. RJ is a member of DVD-SVCD Forum and he just told us (DVDplusRW.org Forum members) about it.

Was there any Sanyo 4x or Pioneer 4x DVD-RW drive product page or something like that? Or, is there any Prescott product page? I apparently said it's "rumor" at the title itself. So, if you don't care about rumors, why did you bother to read this thread at all?

[Kusanagi]

The source is DVD-SVCD Forum in Germany and a DVD-SVCD Forum member mentioned it. RJ is a member of DVD-SVCD Forum and he just told us (DVDplusRW.org Forum members) about it.

So, essentially more propaganda and hot-air from DVDplusRW.org...(again, I thought we covered this...)

Was there any Sanyo 4x or Pioneer 4x DVD-RW drive product page or something like that?

You posted the product links and pictures for the Sanyo unit back at the dv-info.net forums -- Oh wait! You were banned from there because you were spamming them with false & OT information (which you have a tendancy to do here as well). Oh well, guess I can't show you your own posts since you can't even see them anymore.

I apparently said it's "rumor" at the title itself.

No, you didn't.

Read your own topic title again. It reads - "Third Generation DVD+RW - 4x DVD+RW, Serial ATA, 240 Euro." No mention of the word "rumor". Or do you like luring people into your thread traps with your seemingly convincing and legit titles, only to have all your posted information based on "rumors"?

why did you bother to read this thread at all?

Why did you bother to post this topic at all, if based on "rumors". Do you like feeding the trolls?

We all just want the facts around here. "Rumors" or hype via links back to DVDplusRW.org forum threads do not constitute the facts.


Kusanagi

[Kennyshin]

The source is DVD-SVCD Forum in Germany and a DVD-SVCD Forum member mentioned it. RJ is a member of DVD-SVCD Forum and he just told us (DVDplusRW.org Forum members) about it.

So, essentially more propaganda and hot-air from DVDplusRW.org...(again, I thought we covered this...)

Was there any Sanyo 4x or Pioneer 4x DVD-RW drive product page or something like that?

You posted the product links and pictures for the Sanyo unit back at the dv-info.net forums -- Oh wait! You were banned from there because you were spamming them with false & OT information (which you have a tendancy to do here as well). Oh well, guess I can't show you your own posts since you can't even see them anymore.

I apparently said it's "rumor" at the title itself.

No, you didn't.

Read your own topic title again. It reads - "Third Generation DVD+RW - 4x DVD+RW, Serial ATA, 240 Euro." No mention of the word "rumor". Or do you like luring people into your thread traps with your seemingly convincing and legit titles, only to have all your posted information based on "rumors"?

why did you bother to read this thread at all?

Why did you bother to post this topic at all, if based on "rumors". Do you like feeding the trolls?

We all just want the facts around here. "Rumors" or hype via links back to DVDplusRW.org forum threads do not constitute the facts.


Kusanagi

OK. I forgot to add "rumored" in this thread title.

Poor people.

[dvdchimp]

Kenny, didn't you learn anything about proper postings yet?

[Kennyshin]

Comparison.

Sanyo 2x DVD-RW vs. Ricoh 4x DVD+RW

4x DVD-R writing vs. 4x DVD+R writing

2x DVD-R writing vs. 4x DVD+RW writing

4MB buffer memory vs. 16MB buffer memory

P-ATA only vs. either P-ATA or S-ATA

[Kusanagi]

Comparison.

Sanyo 2x DVD-RW vs. Ricoh 4x DVD+RW

4x DVD-R writing vs. 4x DVD+R writing

2x DVD-R writing vs. 4x DVD+RW writing

4MB buffer memory vs. 16MB buffer memory

P-ATA only vs. either P-ATA or S-ATA

That's all fine and dandy but means nothing if you cannot provide a product page for each drive you mention. Until you do that, you are just posting nonsense.


Kusanagi

[ChRaN]

who neds 16Mb buffer when BURN-Proff is invented??

[Kennyshin]

who neds 16Mb buffer when BURN-Proff is invented??

BURN-Proof and other similar technologies do not replace buffer memory but just (nearly) prevent buffer-underrun error.

In some situations, the difference in buffer memory (8MB vs. 2MB., for example) means twice the total recording time. Like 5 min. vs. 10 min.

[Kennyshin]

More reports from Impress AV Watch on The Third DVD+RW Asia-Pacific Seminar

Sony displayed Optical Pickup and Spindle Motor components for notebook and desktop DVDplus-minusR/RW drives.



More pictures

Related Story - DVD+RW Drive Market Forecast

Related Story - Yamaha 2.4/2.4/16/24/10/40 DVD+R Drive

[mpb]

Comparison.

Pioneer 104 2x DVD-RW vs. Kennyshin's HP 200i 2.4x DVD+RW

2 x DVD-R writing vs. No DVD+R writing without firmware upgrade

1 x DVD-RW writing vs. 2.4x DVD+RW writing.. but discs won't play in nearly anything

Buffer memory.... being a completely useless stat above 2MB or so

ATAPI or UW/SCSI vs. ATAPI

-R Standard, plays in 90% of players vs. +R Non-standard, no guarantees

Available for $254 from esbuy.com vs. $499 from Best Buy or Amazon

And here's another comparison:

Normal movie buff with a life vs. Kennyshin.

Bought a DVD-RW because it was the best vs. DVD+RW came with his PC

Will migrate to any recorder that becomes the standard, regardless of cost, because it will be the best recording, archiving and presentation method, vs. Relentlessly defending DVD+RW in the stark fear that his nice shiney new drive will go the way of Betamax and OS/2 Warp.


Look, just wake the hell up and get real, Kennyshin. Right now, DVD+RW is a joke. If that changes, there will be a mass migration toward it... otherwise, Pioneer and Apple will continue to addict an entire mass market to the wonders of DVD recording.... their way.

In the meanwhile, the DVD Multi may well expand to include the + drives, since it's just a software enhancement to existing multi, so in players manufactured 2002 or later... it may not matter much.

[Kennyshin]

Comparison.

Pioneer 104 2x DVD-RW vs. Kennyshin's HP 200i 2.4x DVD+RW

2 x DVD-R writing vs. No DVD+R writing without firmware upgrade

1 x DVD-RW writing vs. 2.4x DVD+RW writing.. but discs won't play in nearly anything

Buffer memory.... being a completely useless stat above 2MB or so

ATAPI or UW/SCSI vs. ATAPI

-R Standard, plays in 90% of players vs. +R Non-standard, no guarantees

Available for $254 from esbuy.com vs. $499 from Best Buy or Amazon

And here's another comparison:

Normal movie buff with a life vs. Kennyshin.

Bought a DVD-RW because it was the best vs. DVD+RW came with his PC

Will migrate to any recorder that becomes the standard, regardless of cost, because it will be the best recording, archiving and presentation method, vs. Relentlessly defending DVD+RW in the stark fear that his nice shiney new drive will go the way of Betamax and OS/2 Warp.


Look, just wake the hell up and get real, Kennyshin. Right now, DVD+RW is a joke. If that changes, there will be a mass migration toward it... otherwise, Pioneer and Apple will continue to addict an entire mass market to the wonders of DVD recording.... their way.

In the meanwhile, the DVD Multi may well expand to include the + drives, since it's just a software enhancement to existing multi, so in players manufactured 2002 or later... it may not matter much.

Well, I don't know anyone who pays $400 for a latest DVD+R/+RW drive in the US market. $297 for Ricoh RW5125A, an OEM model of MP5125A and $310 to $340 for RiDATA's MP5125A OEM.

It's you who needs to wake up. Look at the following data hard.

DVD200i cannot write to DVD+R without firmware what?! Get educated first, like what the most notorious DVD-RW promotor, westblock used to say.

[Kennyshin]

20 million by 2003 and 50 million by 2004, Beta had that great market share in two and three years after introduction? Obviously, over 50% market share for DVD+RW only. Was OS/2 that dominant in the market and lost the OS war?

[Scobo]

Seconds out....... round two.

[digv]

Hey Kenny...have you even bought a burner yet???????

[musher70]

WHO CARES ABOUT +RW CRAP ANYWAY?/if u buy a fully loaded
system at worst buy u get the a04 anyway not their +rw unit
sounds weird anyway.........get the pio_a04 for 300us$

[mpb]

20 million by 2003 and 50 million by 2004, Beta had that great market share in two and three years after introduction? Obviously, over 50% market share for DVD+RW only. Was OS/2 that dominant in the market and lost the OS war?

Thus proving that 86% of all statistics are made up.

Go to dvddemystified.com and read the DVD FAQ. THERE ARE NOT EVEN THAT MANY F*CKING DVD PLAYERS IN USE!!!!!

[Kennyshin]

20 million by 2003 and 50 million by 2004, Beta had that great market share in two and three years after introduction? Obviously, over 50% market share for DVD+RW only. Was OS/2 that dominant in the market and lost the OS war?

Thus proving that 86% of all statistics are made up.

Go to dvddemystified.com and read the DVD FAQ. THERE ARE NOT EVEN THAT MANY F*CKING DVD PLAYERS IN USE!!!!!

Yep, that's why it's called growth and DVD+RW is the fastest-growing sector in all ODD markets.

And who said it's a statistics data? "By 2003" is used in statistics?

[Kennyshin]

Hey Kenny...have you even bought a burner yet???????

About 15 burners, but I'm still waiting for native Serial ATA and native USB 2.0 4x to 6x DVD+RW drives.

Iwill P4G has onboard Serial ATA but it has only two Serial ATA connectors. I'm not sure whether I'll have to wait for 12-port or even 16-port S-ATA cards.

Anyway, some of the first 4x and 6x DVD+R/+RW/+MRW drives will be actually cheaper than 2.4x DVD+RW drives of eight months ago.

[Kusanagi]

About 15 burners, but I'm still waiting for native Serial ATA and native USB 2.0 4x to 6x DVD+RW drives.

So the answer would be a NO right Kenny?...I wouldn't be surprised to know if you are still using a Packard Bell Pentium 60 w/ 24megs of EDO RAM, since you seem to wait and wait for whatever comes next - but then have the audacity to comment on current drives when you don't even have one!

Iwill P4G has onboard Serial ATA but it has only two Serial ATA connectors. I'm not sure whether I'll have to wait for 12-port or even 16-port S-ATA cards.

Anyway, some of the first 4x and 6x DVD+R/+RW/+MRW drives will be actually cheaper than 2.4x DVD+RW drives of eight months ago.

WTF is this gibberish, jesus, I'm sick of you always looking into a magic ball and proclaiming your views (on DVD+-=/MR/+=-+MWxR - WHATEVER!) are so much better!

Kenny, get a life and a DVD-R/-RW (or a current DVD+R/+RW) burner and enjoy what all of us have been enjoying for some time now - instead of spreading all these rumors on future technologies that DON'T EVEN EXIST in the prosumer/consumer market and stop dodging the questions.

If you still want to make your false predictions, DO IT IN THE OT FORUM!


Kusanagi

[yg1968]

I own a DVD+R/+RW. It makes little difference what format that you choose. As soon as you buy either burner, you will find out that most of your frustrations will be with the software when capturing, encoding, authoring or burning DVDs (which you would get in either formats).

I am not sure why this forum is so pro -R. It can get annoying at times. +R discs play in almost all DVD players (if burned properly). Most people agree that +RW is superior to -RW. There is little to debate about. Yet you guys find ways to debate this over and over. This is getting old.

[mpb]

Anyway, some of the first 4x and 6x DVD+R/+RW/+MRW drives will be actually cheaper than 2.4x DVD+RW drives of eight months ago.

WTF is this gibberish, jesus, I'm sick of you always looking into a magic ball and proclaiming your views (on DVD+-=/MR/+=-+MWxR - WHATEVER!) are so much better!
Kusanagi[/quote]

I don't respond directly to Kennyshin anymore, since he's clearly a troll. I didn't realize it initially because it was careful, methodical trolling, but time and evidence tipped the scales.

- or +, really, anyone who has been through this before knows what will happen. HST was faster initially, and then was discarded. OS/2 was better than Windows 3.1, but look what prevailed. the bottom line is that the standard that works best in more situations and behaves properly with more equipment is the one that earns ubiquity, and thus becomes the new default tool. DVD-R/RW is already doing this.

You know, it's possible that +RW drives are outselling -RW as add-on drives right now for the PC. I see the evidence of this... Best Buy, CC, etc all sell lots of +RW, but only a few places sell the Pioneer A04 (and friends). So the existing installed base of computer users is going to see +RW drives on the rack and will assume it's the correct thing... until they do some research, and then realize what happened.

But even with this, people underestimate the number of -RW drives that are actually reaching homes. The Apple iMacs and Powermacs with the 103/4 -RW drives built in are popular beyond reason right now. My roommate does purchasing for a PC wholesaler that sells both, and they have a constant backorder queue for them. Also, Sony VAIO is a consistently-selling brand of PCs, and that also includes the 104.

Despite what the Dell Dude would like to have us think, those two brands are immensely popular right now, as the general public buys computers that bridge the gap between data and home theater. By the end of Xmas 2002, the DVD+RW alliance is going to look up and notice that their market share is a fraction of what their standalone drive sales figures suggested.

In the end, dual-standard drives will surely fill the shelves... but for now, there is only one safe play, and it doesn't contain a plus symbol.

[yg1968]

Nobody will win the format war since both formats are compatible with DVD-Video players. If you own a +R burner, you will not decide to buy a new -R burner just because some other guy predicts it as the winner (It seems that Kenny is not the only one with a crystal ball...). As long as you are able to burn DVD-Video discs, you are happy with either of the formats.

The main difference between the formats is the advantage of +RW over -RW. The +R disc are at least as compatible as the -R disc. The +RW advantage (over -RW) is an important one which cannot so easily be dismissed. Anyways, the DVD authoring etc software has to improve before either formats becomes main stream.

[Kennyshin]

About 15 burners, but I'm still waiting for native Serial ATA and native USB 2.0 4x to 6x DVD+RW drives.

So the answer would be a NO right Kenny?...I wouldn't be surprised to know if you are still using a Packard Bell Pentium 60 w/ 24megs of EDO RAM, since you seem to wait and wait for whatever comes next - but then have the audacity to comment on current drives when you don't even have one!

Iwill P4G has onboard Serial ATA but it has only two Serial ATA connectors. I'm not sure whether I'll have to wait for 12-port or even 16-port S-ATA cards.

Anyway, some of the first 4x and 6x DVD+R/+RW/+MRW drives will be actually cheaper than 2.4x DVD+RW drives of eight months ago.

WTF is this gibberish, jesus, I'm sick of you always looking into a magic ball and proclaiming your views (on DVD+-=/MR/+=-+MWxR - WHATEVER!) are so much better!

Kenny, get a life and a DVD-R/-RW (or a current DVD+R/+RW) burner and enjoy what all of us have been enjoying for some time now - instead of spreading all these rumors on future technologies that DON'T EVEN EXIST in the prosumer/consumer market and stop dodging the questions.

If you still want to make your false predictions, DO IT IN THE OT FORUM!


Kusanagi

I live in Seoul and I have never seen any "Packard Bell" computer in my life. I don't even buy a Samsung or LG though I've got nearly 20 motherboards that can be used either with Athlon K7 or Pentium 2/3/4. No, don't be so jealous.

As for waiting, it's actually about ten weeks only, not years, which I can cover with all the hard drives I've (still) got.

[Kennyshin]

I don't respond directly to Kennyshin anymore, since he's clearly a troll. I didn't realize it initially because it was careful, methodical trolling, but time and evidence tipped the scales.

- or +, really, anyone who has been through this before knows what will happen. HST was faster initially, and then was discarded. OS/2 was better than Windows 3.1, but look what prevailed. the bottom line is that the standard that works best in more situations and behaves properly with more equipment is the one that earns ubiquity, and thus becomes the new default tool. DVD-R/RW is already doing this.

You know, it's possible that +RW drives are outselling -RW as add-on drives right now for the PC. I see the evidence of this... Best Buy, CC, etc all sell lots of +RW, but only a few places sell the Pioneer A04 (and friends). So the existing installed base of computer users is going to see +RW drives on the rack and will assume it's the correct thing... until they do some research, and then realize what happened.

But even with this, people underestimate the number of -RW drives that are actually reaching homes. The Apple iMacs and Powermacs with the 103/4 -RW drives built in are popular beyond reason right now. My roommate does purchasing for a PC wholesaler that sells both, and they have a constant backorder queue for them. Also, Sony VAIO is a consistently-selling brand of PCs, and that also includes the 104.

Despite what the Dell Dude would like to have us think, those two brands are immensely popular right now, as the general public buys computers that bridge the gap between data and home theater. By the end of Xmas 2002, the DVD+RW alliance is going to look up and notice that their market share is a fraction of what their standalone drive sales figures suggested.

In the end, dual-standard drives will surely fill the shelves... but for now, there is only one safe play, and it doesn't contain a plus symbol.

Apple probably has 2% of worldwide PC market while HP has 30% and what about Sony VAIO PCs or are there more of them than Dell PCs?

How do you know "dual-standard" drives will "surely" fill the shelves "in the end"? Do you seriously believe drives that support DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD-RAM, DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD+MRW, CD-R, CD-RW, CD-MRW, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, and every other CD/DVD-related format standard will replace everything else? Even DVD Multi drives with quite slow speeds cost about US$100 more than DVD-R drives and about US$200 more than 1x DVD-RAM drives.

For people who have already bought DVD+R/+RW drives, what do they need more if their DVD-Video players and DVD-ROM drives have no serious problem in reading DVD+R and/or DVD+RW media and media prices are going to drop even more? For DVD-R/-RW users, well, not the same.

[john1290]

Anyway, some of the first 4x and 6x DVD+R/+RW/+MRW drives will be actually cheaper than 2.4x DVD+RW drives of eight months ago.

WTF is this gibberish, jesus, I'm sick of you always looking into a magic ball and proclaiming your views (on DVD+-=/MR/+=-+MWxR - WHATEVER!) are so much better!
Kusanagi

But even with this, people underestimate the number of -RW drives that are actually reaching homes. The Apple iMacs and Powermacs with the 103/4 -RW drives built in are popular beyond reason right now. My roommate does purchasing for a PC wholesaler that sells both, and they have a constant backorder queue for them. Also, Sony VAIO is a consistently-selling brand of PCs, and that also includes the 104.
mpb

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cn/20020626/tc_cn/939363



Guess your roommate needs to call the guy in that story who has all those apples sitting around collecting dust.

[Kusanagi]

I've got nearly 20 motherboards that can be used either with Athlon K7 or Pentium 2/3/4. No, don't be so jealous.

Eek! Not I - that's some ancient (Pentium...2?) hardware you have there! Maybe you should try selling it to get some money so you can finally get yourself a DVD-R/-RW drive . Or you could feed those extra parts to my SuperMicro P4DCE+ (Dual Prestonia 2.2GHz Xeon, btw) workstation here - yum yum .

Guess your roommate needs to call the guy in that story who has all those apples sitting around collecting dust.

Oh, well here is two for you john1290 -

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=5;t=16

http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/moren/193516

Chalk up another (two) for DVD-R/-RW. :P

Also, I'm done feeding you trolls. You want to discuss this more in detail, PM me.


Kusanagi

[john1290]

Eek! Not I - that's some ancient (Pentium 2?) hardware you have there! Maybe you should try selling it to get some money so you can finally get yourself a DVD-R/-RW drive . Or you could feed those extra parts to my SuperMicro P4DCE+ (Dual Prestonia 2.2GHz Xeon, btw) workstation here .

Oh, well here is two for you john1290 -

http://www.dv-info.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d234dd52d7dffff;act=ST;f=5;t=16
Kusanagi

Wow.......3 month old news.......you're awesome!

http://www.nikkeibp.asiabiztech.com/wcs/leaf?CID=onair/asabt/moren/193516
Kusanagi

And your point is what exactly? This describes a SET TOP DVR.......to be released stateside in 2004!!!!!!!!!!!! Towards the end of the article, they mention a PC drive also. Woah.......I wish I was as 'leet as you.....you're a haxor........

Chalk up another (two) for DVD-R/-RW. :P
Kusanagi

Yup......you'll need those.......as HP steam rolls over all of your -rw drives with a collective .02 of the market.

Somebody put it very nicely........all of this arguing is crap. Everyone needs to stop lying and exaggerating the facts. +R is AS COMPATIBLE as -r and so long as it works for you......stfu and go in piece. It all comes down to your source video and how you encode and author it that is a MAJOR factor for compatibility. Can we at least all agree on that?