To all Vdub and TMPGenc gurus

[joeydlc]

My source file is DV AVI (NTSC) and want to convert to VCD with the SMOOTHEST SCENE MOVEMENTS POSSIBLE. What Vdub filter(s) to use, and the best filter settings, to frameserve to TMPGenc? What's also the best TMPGenc setting for VCD encoding? Remember, my source file is DV NTSC.

Any input from the gurus is very much appreciated.
Thanks.

[LanceSteel]

Do you have to use any filters in Vdub? I thought DV was already 720x480 (which is dvd res) with very HQ video. I would just frame serve as-is using no filters. As for Tmpeg, if you want to make a VCD compliant stream I would just use the VCD template that comes with TMPEG. That will make the stream 100% compatable.

[joeydlc]

LanceSteel,

I want to use Vdub filters because I want to get the smoothest scene movements as possible. Right now, my tmpgenc encoded VCDs looks great except for moving subjects. They sort of leaving some "trails" when the camera is PANNED or when the subject moves from left-to-right and vice versa. How can I get rid of this problem?

Thanks.

[bolix999]

If you're not deinterlacing your DV source, then when you encode to VCD you can get the slight trailing effect you are getting. In TMPGEnc or VDub select a deinterlace filter and keep it simple (ie even field only).

Cheers,

Bolix

[liquid217]

sounds like your rendering to ntsc progressive. If your source is interlace (it probably is) then you need to render to interlace. check this in tmpgenc under the "settings" button. Its allways best to keep the source format the same as the destination. ie...

interlace to interlace
or
progressive to progressive (non-interlace)

also keep in mind that if it is interlace, you will not be able to correctly view it on the pc. You will have to watch it on a tv in order for it to look correct. If you watch an interlace source on the pc, you will see many horizontal lines that allmost look like a comb, this is normal. As i said before, interlace must be viewed on a tv in order for it too look correct.

[joeydlc]

Thank you guys for your input. Actually, I'm not getting that "comb effect, saw tooth type edge distortion or mice teeth" as they call it. I have used the "smart deinterlace" filter in Vdub to get rid of this.

My problem is this, just imagine a subject walks from right to left of the screen. The movement is not smooth, it leaves some kind of a "trail effect". I have played around with "deinterlace" settings of Vdub and tmpgenc but really could not get working smoothly.

liquid217, I'm converting to VCD, that means "interlace" to "non-interlace". My problem is visible when viewed both on PC and TV.

[liquid217]

well if your converting to vcd, you shouldn't even need to de-interlace. That motion movement describes what happens when you deinterlace. The thing with vcd's is since they are 240(288 pal), the two interlace fields are combined together, so you really don't need to deinterlace. Try a small clip that is not deinterlaced, and try encoding it with tmpg to vcd and see if it eleminates your problem.

BTW, most of the stuff i do is from dv footage, usually encoding it to svcd or something like that. If you ever get into svcds, follow the guidelines i listed above, i think you'll be quite surprised at the quality

[joeydlc]

liquid217,

I noticed that this problem is visible even from the captured DV avi file when played from Media player. Is this a problem with DV files?

[Beni]

hi joeydlc,

looks like you're not alone. I always get this "trail effects" when making VCD from digital handycam source. All deinterlace setting in Vdub and TMPEG doesn't help. I try to capture in half-frame PAL, ie. 352 x 288, and still doesn't work.

I try panasonic encoder, ligos, cinemacraft, bbmpeg and they end up with the same result. So, i guest this is the matter of captured AVI files. Recently, I try to direct capture to MPEG-1 and all these "trail effects" are gone. Strange indeed.

You will not get this "trail effects" if you try to make interlacing output, ie. SVCD or DVD.

Thanks.

[liquid217]

well its beginning to sound like a problem with the codec. Im assuming that you are using the microsoft directshow codec for playback (its included with directx 8.1). Im curious tho, when you play the avi in wmp, what is the resolution? I know that the microsoft codec is shipped by default to play at 360x240. If you right click on the screen in wmp, goto properties, then the advanced tab, you will then see a dv decoder entry in there, double click on that and select full resolution. The next time you open the dv avi (or any other dv avi for that matter) you will wee it in full resolution.

I just so happened to have a dv project on my system so i tries encoding it to vcd and i noticed the same problems you were having. The only solution that i have for now (still looking into it) is to enable (even odd field deinterlace) in tmpgenc. That took care of the trailing effect. I will let you know of any more info as i get it.

[joeydlc]

Hi Beni,

Have you tried to playback your captured DV avi file on your computer
and noticed this "trail effects" problem?

I did try to make SVCD and the "trail effect" is still there but not that noticeable. What Vdub and TMPGenc settings have you used to create your SVCD?

Thanks.

[Beni]

Hello,

Thanks for all the inputs.

The original DV AVI file has the "trails", too. But, this is because DV is interlace and played on progressive monitor PC. To see an interlace movie on PC, use a software player which apply a deinterlace filter, like PowerDVD.

I use the default template within TMPEG (PAL SVCD) to make SVCD. Panning plays very smooth on TV but there is a slight "trails" on PC. For VCD, the "trails" are on both PC and TV.

To minimize these "trails", as liquid217 said, enable deinterlace filter or set the motion search precision to the highest quality within TMPEG. Please let me know if there is a better finding.

Cheers.