Lossless Capture with Happauge USB Live 2.0

[hauko]

Hello,

I am new to VHS capturing and I own a Happauge USB Live 2.0 because I read you can capture lossless with this capture card and it is a good budget option.
I am capturing Pal-B format Vhs and my current workflow is the following:
Blaupunkt RTV 966 with svhs cable conneted to Panasonic DMR-EH575 ad passthrough for tbcish function conneted via svhs to my happauge live 2.0.

I tried capturing with huffyuv activated in vdub VirtualDub 1.9.11 but I always get compression ratio 2.6:1 which is not really lossless and I am confused why that might be the case. (see picture)

[Bwaak]

lossless != uncompressed

[hauko]

[Attachment 75618 - Click to enlarge]yes but why is my video compressing if I use huffyuv?
is there something wrong with the configuration perhaps?
If I use the built in uncompressed codec I get no compression

[DB83]

Nothing wrong with your settings.

Our 'friend' is not helpful inasmuch that huffyuv DOES compress as opposed to a fully uncompressed (no codec used) capture. Lossless refers to the retention of information when you edit/resave that capture using the same codec whereas a lossy codec such as mpeg2 or DV will lose information.

[Sharc]

Simply speaking there are 2 types of video compression:

a) Lossless compression (Huffyuv, Lagarith, ff1, MagicYUV...)
The file gets smaller, but nothing is lost. The original can be perfectly restored. Similar as *.zip, *.rar etc.

b) Lossy compression (by lossy encoders like HCenc, x264, x265 .... mpeg2, mpeg4, divx formats)
The file becomes even smaller (usually much smaller), but now at the expense of some losses like loss of fine picture details, creating certain artifacts etc. The original can no longer be perfectly restored. What is lost is lost. The compromise is how much losses/compression artifacts one is willing to tolerate.

It's a bit of an oversimplification, but it may answer your question

[Bwaak]

Our 'friend' is not helpful

Your "friend" (are you talking in royal plural?) was under an impression that anyone who has used a ZIP file knows what compressing data losslessly means.

Your "friend" may have not realized that ZIP files seem to all but have seized to be a part of a computer usage routine. With most data formats already compressed, what's the point? OTOH, tarballs are still usually distributed zipped.

[lollo]

And while you are there with your losseless capture, do not use hacked HuffYUV codec, but the original one!

[hauko]

And while you are there with your losseless capture, do not use hacked HuffYUV codec, but the original one!

I used the one from the digitalfaq website isn't that the original?

[hauko]

Nothing wrong with your settings.

Our 'friend' is not helpful inasmuch that huffyuv DOES compress as opposed to a fully uncompressed (no codec used) capture. Lossless refers to the retention of information when you edit/resave that capture using the same codec whereas a lossy codec such as mpeg2 or DV will lose information.

K so with this Setup my Happauge USB Live 2.0 should capture lossless?

[lollo]

I used the one from the digitalfaq website isn't that the original?

No. https://www.videohelp.com/download/huffyuv-2.1.1.zip

[hauko]

I used the one from the digitalfaq website isn't that the original?

No. https://www.videohelp.com/download/huffyuv-2.1.1.zip

I can't seem to manage to install the version from this website I always get the following error maybe because I got the other version installed?
I am using windows 7 64 bit

[lollo]

1- unzip huffyuv-2.1.1.zip to C:\

2- Copy huffyuv.dll and huffyuv.inf in C:\Windows\SysWOW64

3- Open up a command prompt (DOS box) as administrator

4- In the command prompt (DOS box) go to C:\Windows\SysWOW64

5- Type: rundll32.exe C:\Windows\SysWOW64\setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSectio n DefaultInstall 0 C:\huffyuv.inf

[hauko]

1- unzip huffyuv-2.1.1.zip to C:\

2- Copy huffyuv.dll and huffyuv.inf in C:\Windows\SysWOW64

3- Open up a command prompt (DOS box) as administrator

4- In the command prompt (DOS box) go to C:\Windows\SysWOW64

5- Type: rundll32.exe C:\Windows\SysWOW64\setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSectio n DefaultInstall 0 C:\huffyuv.inf

I still get following error
[Attachment 75626 - Click to enlarge]

[DB83]

Then 'safest' approach is to formally uninstall ALL instances of the huffyuv codec >> if your OS is like mine you go to Programs & Features from Control Panel. Scroll down to huffyuv > right-click uninstall/remove.

Then install the approved version following the instructions as displayed from the zip.

[hauko]

Then 'safest' approach is to formally uninstall ALL instances of the huffyuv codec >> if your OS is like mine you go to Programs & Features from Control Panel. Scroll down to huffyuv > right-click uninstall/remove.

Then install the approved version following the instructions as displayed from the zip.

think I managed I unzipped the filder in syswow64 and just right click installed thanks a lot guys will start capturing now see you soon when I have no idea how what to do with the raw files

[TimA-C]

Or you could use Lagarith lossless codec or UT Video codec, both of which are lossless. Lagarith should work fine with Win7, and if the latest version of UT Video isn't Win7 compatible then there are certainly fairly recent versions that are. (I used both with my USB Live2 when I was still running Win7 x64 Home). Also, do look at using AmarecTV v3.10 (or lower. DO NOT USE ANY LATER VERSIONS!!!) to capture if you have audio sync issues with VDub.

Good Luck!

[hauko]

so I did some quick test captures with lagarith and huffyuv in vdub 19.11

https://we.tl/t-s9bFYtvCIR

can any of those be consideres lossless?

[DB83]

Have you actually read and understood the various comments earlier ?.

Both huffyuv and lagarith are lossless codecs so, by definition, your captures ARE lossless.

[Sharc]

so I did some quick test captures with lagarith and huffyuv in vdub 19.11

https://we.tl/t-s9bFYtvCIR

can any of those be consideres lossless?

Yep. Both look ok to me and are lossless. The video is PsF (Progressive segmented Frame) rather than interlaced because the original is from a film. You can treat it as progressive for further processing/encoding.

Also the levels are fine. No clipping or illegal RGB.

[DB83]

One thing I will comment on with the huffy sample is that the vid is 25% larger than it needs to be - I posted a sample a while back 32 secs = 185mb. Do look carefully at the various options.

[Sharc]

.... the huffy sample is that the vid is 25% larger than it needs to be - I posted a sample a while back 32 secs = 185mb. ....

There is no such size rule IMO. Even the lossless compressibility depends on the source material (and on the codec). But yes, Huffy has settings which affect the efficiency of the lossless compression. Anyway, most important is "lossless" and YUV 4:2:2 which is fine with both captures.

[DB83]

I'll concede on the first point. The sample I posted, I think you commented on it, had minimal movement and quite a dark setting. The one significant variation though is the Bits/(Pixel*Frame) which was 4.421 compared with 6.658 in the OP's sample.

I am mentioning this should the OP, sometime down the line, be concerned with file size on longer recordings.

[VHSvideocapture]

.... the huffy sample is that the vid is 25% larger than it needs to be - I posted a sample a while back 32 secs = 185mb. ....

There is no such size rule IMO. Even the lossless compressibility depends on the source material (and on the codec). But yes, Huffy has settings which affect the efficiency of the lossless compression. Anyway, most important is "lossless" and YUV 4:2:2 which is fine with both captures.

Does huff capture YUY2 by default or do have to something during set up?
I have settings on (best) is this the correct setting?

Lagrith codec produces smaller files is it better to capture in huff then use Lagrith as intermediary codec?
Can too much transcoding cause quality loss even if it's lossless?

What about de interlacing that's a problem with lagrith it doesn't flag as interlaced on any software always progressive
Huff does flag correctly on tests?

[VHSvideocapture]

so I did some quick test captures with lagarith and huffyuv in vdub 19.11

https://we.tl/t-s9bFYtvCIR

can any of those be consideres lossless?

Yep. Both look ok to me and are lossless. The video is PsF (Progressive segmented Frame) rather than interlaced because the original is from a film. You can treat it as progressive for further processing/encoding.

Also the levels are fine. No clipping or illegal RGB.

Should progressive video be deinterlaced? What if the codec is wrongly flagging interlaced as progressive lagrith lossless codec always does, huff goes flag correctly but colorspace shows RGB0 when it should be YUV2.

How does the person know he has set up the codec correctly?
The output virtualdub settings are 4:2:2 YUY.
Then the video goes into editor for grading clean then

encoded with yuy template.
Is this the correct way of doing it?

What options should be chosen when outputting from moviestudio
Upper field first if lagrith is showing as progressive?

What about reduce interlace flicker? If this option is not chosen you will get ghosting on fast moving scenes after de-interacing on my tests, if chosen the de-interlaced video file plays fine no ghosting.

Does reduce interlace flicker have anty negative effects on the video file? I read online that it blends fields

Any help would be much appreciated- I did not want to start a new topic tgis topic is also taking about capture and set up so it's best suited here 😊

[Sharc]

OMG this forum goes down the drain

[lollo]

think I managed I unzipped the filder in syswow64 and just right click installed thanks a lot guys will start capturing now

Your capture is nice. As Sharc already said, the source is "progressive", meaning the 2 fields are coming from the same moment in time, and the levels are well centered:

see you soon when I have no idea how what to do with the raw files

no need for deep restoration, a simple denoise+sharpen is enough:

video_org=FFmpegSource2("asej.avi", atrack=-1)

# trimming
	trim_start=360
	trim_end=738
video_org_trim=video_org.trim(trim_start,trim_end)

# cropping 
	crop_left=14	# | rimozione esatta delle bande nere sinistra, sopra, destra e del disturbo sotto	
	crop_top=4	# | 720-(14+10)x576-(4+8)=696x564
	crop_right=10
	crop_bottom=8
video_org_trim_crop=video_org_trim.crop(crop_left,crop_top,-crop_right,-crop_bottom,align=true)

### convert to YV16
video_org_trim_crop_yv16=video_org_trim_crop.convertToYV16()

### denoising
denoised_yv16=video_org_trim_crop_yv16.TemporalDegrain2(degrainTR=3)

### convert to YUY2
denoised=denoised_yv16.convertToYUY2()

### convert to YV12
denoised_yv12=denoised.convertToYV12()

### sharpening
sharpened_yv12=denoised_yv12.LSFmod(defaults="slow")

### convert to YUY2 with chroma from YUY2 color space
sharpened=sharpened_yv12.convertToYUY2().MergeChroma(denoised)

### add borders
sharpened_borders=sharpened.addborders((crop_left+crop_right)/2-8,(crop_top+crop_bottom)/2,(crop_left+crop_right)/2-8,(crop_top+crop_bottom)/2)

return(sharpened_borders)

Final result: asej_rest.avi

Comparison side by side


Comparison with slider: https://imgsli.com/MjI3NTg1

Maybe some bad frames like 336 showing line errors can be replaced with interpolated frames .


[Attachment 75638 - Click to enlarge]

[Alwyn]

Any help would be much appreciated- I did not want to start a new topic this topic is also taking about capture and set up so it's best suited here

You should have started a new topic (or added all those general questions above to your other topic). This topic is about USBLive 2 captures.

You can still do so: simply edit your above posts by cutting out all those questions and posting them in your other topic.

It's hard enough to keep track of the subjects of topics here as it is without each topic descending into a general waffle-on about everything-video.

[hauko]

no need for deep restoration, a simple denoise+sharpen is enough:

Well the tapes I want to digitize are mostly tv recordings from the 90`s so their quality will be was worse sadly.
Is there a tutorial or quick guide for beginners on working on the raw captures?
Is the code you posted for avisynth or how do I usw that?

[lollo]

Is the code you posted for avisynth or how do I usw that?

Yes, it is an AviSynth script. There is not a detailed setp-by-step guide on restoration, but you can find several examples in the forum. It all starts with understanding the architecture of the video in term of fields and frames, the basic characteristics (levels, colors, etc.) and how to deal with them, the recognition of the problems to find the appropriate solution, the personal taste, the choice of the final media for exporting, and so on. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort.

[rgr]

And while you are there with your losseless capture, do not use hacked HuffYUV codec, but the original one!

I used the one from the digitalfaq website isn't that the original?

However, I recommend newer, developed codecs - UT Video, Lagarith...