Lines in Hi8 Recordings

[artemisc]

Can anyone tell me what these lines are and how to fix them?
https://www.mediafire.com/file/bw2rj6yocvjro5b/Hi8_Sample.avi/file

I'm using a Sony CCD-TRV815 that I bought off ebay to record. The camera came with a battery but it doesn't work, so I have to leave it plugged in while recording.

Some of these lines seem random, they only show up sometimes, while others are there every time I play it. I was dealing with this issue by taking multiple recordings and replacing the bad segments with good ones, but it's a very tedious process and I'm disappointed that some of them are there every time so I can't get a good recording to replace every bad segment.

These lines appear on every tape I try to record. Is this normal for Hi8 tapes or do I just have to find a better camera?

P.s. I saw someone on Reddit say they fixed their line issue by getting a working battery and recording on battery power instead, but they deleted their sample video so I don't know if they had the same issue as me. Is getting a new battery worth a try?

[dellsam34]

If those lines are related to power issues then yes, If they are tape dropouts then no. If they happen in the exact same location of tape they are tape dropouts, If they are random, they are most likely caused by power interference. The battery can indeed fix interference coming from the mains power. You should also check for faulty or loose video cables.

[Alwyn]

Neat Video takes care of most of those lines so I expect that AVISynth would have no trouble with them.

Another aspect of that tape is the interlacing. Both VDub and QTGMC produced some bad wobbly lines. I'll be interested in what the AVISynth experts have to say about this:


[Attachment 75133 - Click to enlarge]

[ajk]

The video clip can't be deinterlaced properly because it has been resized. It has a resolution of 720 by 540, but NTSC video should have a vertical resolution of 480. It has probably been resized at some stage to achieve an aspect ratio of 4/3. There are filters for Avisynth to undo this sort of thing, but of course in this case it just makes sense to re-capture the footage properly, without resizing.

As for the actual issue with the lines or dropouts, if they are indeed caused by the capture signal path (e.g. they happen randomly), and you can't get rid of them otherwise, taking a median of several captures can be a viable solution.

[artemisc]

Neat Video takes care of most of those lines so I expect that AVISynth would have no trouble with them.

I don't suppose there's a tutorial anywhere that explains how to get rid of those lines with Neat Video, is there? I have Neat Video, but I've only ever used it to reduce graininess, I didn't know it could help with lines. I find AVISynth daunting, but I would give that a shot too if I knew where to start lol

[artemisc]

The video clip can't be deinterlaced properly because it has been resized. It has a resolution of 720 by 540, but NTSC video should have a vertical resolution of 480. It has probably been resized at some stage to achieve an aspect ratio of 4/3. There are filters for Avisynth to undo this sort of thing, but of course in this case it just makes sense to re-capture the footage properly, without resizing.

Yes, I was initially having trouble getting the aspect ratio right. I realized I was gonna have to re-capture it, but I figured I'd address the line issue before I waste any more of my time on it. It's nice to have confirmation that the wrong resolution can cause deinterlacing problems, I wasn't sure what was happening there.

As for the actual issue with the lines or dropouts, if they are indeed caused by the capture signal path (e.g. they happen randomly), and you can't get rid of them otherwise, taking a median of several captures can be a viable solution.

That's an interesting idea. I'll look into that, thanks!

[Alwyn]

I don't suppose there's a tutorial anywhere that explains how to get rid of those lines with Neat Video, is there?

Just add it as a filter, find a frame with a uninterrupted section such as a wall, hit Build Nosie Profile then drag out your box in the smooth/constant area (as big as you can but don't worry if you don't get a green box), then click Auto Profile. I didn't make any special adjustments and it removed 95% of the line artifacts. Pipe up if you need more detailed guidance and I'll make a short video.

[Sharc]

The video clip can't be deinterlaced properly because it has been resized. It has a resolution of 720 by 540, but NTSC video should have a vertical resolution of 480. It has probably been resized at some stage to achieve an aspect ratio of 4/3. There are filters for Avisynth to undo this sort of thing, but of course in this case it just makes sense to re-capture the footage properly, without resizing.

As for the actual issue with the lines or dropouts, if they are indeed caused by the capture signal path (e.g. they happen randomly), and you can't get rid of them otherwise, taking a median of several captures can be a viable solution.

+1
Resizing of interlaced footage without deinterlacing before the resizing. It's a recipe for damaging video badly.

[oln]

If they are not at the same spot every time the dropouts could also be in part caused by the video heads being a bit dirty. People often throw that out when it's obviously not the fault but in this case it could actually be a factor. Agree that the "lines" here are likely caused by something disturbing the horizontal synchronization signal outside the visible area, which could be dropouts or some other interference.

Interference caused by external factors are more likely to show up as white fishes/flashes and not be masked by the dropout corrector as they won't show up as signal loss to the dropout detector. If the power supply brick is bad you can also get a sort of noise/hum bar that moves slowly down the image or an interference pattern but not seeing that here.

[artemisc]

The video clip can't be deinterlaced properly because it has been resized. It has a resolution of 720 by 540, but NTSC video should have a vertical resolution of 480. It has probably been resized at some stage to achieve an aspect ratio of 4/3. There are filters for Avisynth to undo this sort of thing, but of course in this case it just makes sense to re-capture the footage properly, without resizing.

As for the actual issue with the lines or dropouts, if they are indeed caused by the capture signal path (e.g. they happen randomly), and you can't get rid of them otherwise, taking a median of several captures can be a viable solution.

So now while I wait for my replacement camera battery to arrive, I'm working on my VHS recordings. Before I get too deep into this, do you see anything glaringly wrong with this recording? Like recording in the wrong resolution.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/uf36a2g6mr0lvy6/VHS_sample.avi/file

[Alwyn]

do you see anything glaringly wrong with this recording? Like recording in the wrong resolution.

Technically, it looks good, 720x480 29.97.

Quality-wise, it's not real flash. A stabiliser of some sort (either a Line TBC in the VCR) or a Panasonic DVD recorder eg ES-10 or 15 will work wonders, stopping those frame flashes eg frame 83, straighten out the vertical wobbly lines edges, and reduce the colour blotching.

In other words, ideally a better VCR, preferably SVHS with inbuilt Line TBC, would yield a better result, but adding an ES10 or ES15 would help a lot.

[artemisc]

do you see anything glaringly wrong with this recording? Like recording in the wrong resolution.

A stabiliser of some sort (either a Line TBC in the VCR) or a Panasonic DVD recorder eg ES-10 or 15 will work wonders, stopping those frame flashes eg frame 83, straighten out the vertical wobbly lines edges, and reduce the colour blotching.

That's SUPER helpful, thanks!

[Alwyn]

Some examples of stabilisation with those Panasonics here. I believe similar improvements are achieved with an Inbuilt VCR TBC, although, occasionally, bad tapes can overpower the inbuilt TBC and the ES-10/15 is required.