Apex AD-1500 playback problems

[TheInformer]

FYI for other Apex AD-1500 owners...

Plays decently:
Commercial DVDs
Standard VCDs

Players with problems:
SVCD - Playback is jerky at times, and both audio and video slow down. I believe the problem is that the player cannot spin the CD fast enough to get a constant data stream.
Non-standard VCD - Audio doesn't play. I tried a VCDHelp poster's alternative method for creating a good VCD (352x240, CQ=100, maxbitrate=12000) and produced a very good looking MPEG-1 file. Burned it as a non-standard VCD in Nero. The Apex would play the video with the same jerkiness as the SVCD, but no audio would be present.

Has anyone else tried creating a non-standard VCD with the above parameters in TMPGenc? The result looks great! Now I just need to know what players will play it back correctly.

[MITSUI_1]

Your experience is not the same as mine.

I've had no problems whatsoever with my Apex 1500. I've done xSVCD up to 4560 kps max bitrate, and I've tried VCDs up to 4500 kbs. No problems on either one.

I can confirm that you'll have audio skipping problems on VCD using variable bitrate where the bitrate swings are significant. (Using CQ_VBR in TMPGEnc with a min 300, max 1246 and CQ 0f 85-95 usually will not skip, however).

Also, the AD1500 does not like 23.96 fps VCD at all. Encode your VCDs at 29.97 fps. (Although I heard that if you MUX the VCD MPEG1 file as an SVCD file using BBMPEG you can get these to play... your milage may vary).

Also for 23.96 fps material in the SVCD realm, be sure to use PULLDOWN.EXE when you're done encoding the video stream.

Finally, you may have a different more serious problem....

Here's a query for you:

What is the serial number of your Apex 1500?

If it starts with A, B, C, or D it is a "true" 1500.

If it starts with SV, it is actually just a repackaged AD500 or AD600 (I forget which), which does not have the same capabilities as the "true" AD1500.

[therick]

@MITSUI_1 - I just ordered one of these players and was alarmed by this post...is it possible to run pulldown.exe on VCD streams? I really only make SVCDs now...and I run pulldown on all of those...but it would be nice to know if pulldown would work with a VCD stream...

[MITSUI_1]

Hi Rick,

I'd be surprised if pulldown worked (correctlyt) with MPEG1 streams. That's not to say that it won't, or that I've ever tried it, but I wonder whether MPEG1 streams even have a place for field operator flags in light of the fact that MPEG1 is not frame based or interlaced.

[MITSUI_1]

BTW, Informer:

Are you _REALLY_ using 12000 (i.e., twelve THOUSAND) kbits /second to encode 352x240 MPEG1, or was that a typo involving an extra zero at the end.

No DVD player that I have ever seen will play twelve THOUSAND kbits/sec. And, all that birate would be horribly wasted on a 352x240 stream.

So, I'm guessing you meant twelve_HUNDRED kb/s (1200).

For that, your problem with the Apex is use of "plain" CQ mode. The variable bitrate swings are too extreme in that mode for the player to handle. (It doesn't like VBR MPEG1). Try CQ_VBR mode.

Better yet, since there is NO DIFFERENCE between CQ=100 and regular old Constant Bitrate (CBR) which the apex likes, just encode at 1246 kb/s with 128 kb/s audio using CBR mode.

[therick]

@MITSUI_1 - hey thanks for the info....have to keep that in mind....

[TheInformer]

MITSUI_1:

No, that was not a typo. I did say 12,000 (twelve thousand)

Now that is just the maximum bitrate allowed not a constant rate. On a Married: With Children episode I was testing the procedure on, the bitrate went up to 4400 at one point, but was mostly around 3200 as reported by a program called Bitrate Viewer. It analyzes your source file and reports back on the bitrate. I ran the program on the target TMPGEnc encoded MPEG-1 file (352x240, CQ=100, maxbitrate=12000).

The picture quality was the best I've seen in an MPEG-1 file to date.
Try it out! A 22 minute episode took around 500 megs of space.

(I realize that noise in the video probably contributed somewhat to the higher bitrates)

[kjmacke]

I have had problems also and my solution that finally worked after many hours of differnt combinations was to make everything 29.97 frame even if the movie is in film to start with and keep the audio at 224. I have had a few apex players and they seem to slow down and speed up when things are encoded in film. So try encoding in 29.97 and your problems should be solved.

[MITSUI_1]

Hi Informer:

Well, that makes sense. The CQ factor tells the encoder to use as much bitrate as it needs to get 100% quality, and apparently you can encode MPEG1 that size with "full" quality using the number of bits you report.

BUT, I can tell you with no compunction that you will never get that to play on the APEX1500 if its encoded in CQ mode. You'll see why when you load that file into the bitrate viewer. The transitions between low and high bitrates just aren't something the APEX 1500 likes to do with MPEG 1.

Let me suggest this: Just encode that sucker at 4000 bps CBR. Make sure you set the buffer to automatic. Also, make sure you multiplex it using non-standard VCD.

That will play with no jerks, will give you pretty much exactly the quality you're seeing right now, and (with 224kb/s audio) will still fit your 22 minute episode on a single CD.

[TheInformer]

Hey MITSUI_1,

Here's what I think I will do: Run Bitrate Viewer on my source DV file and see what kind of numbers I get. Hopefully that will tell me what type of CBR bitrate I should use.

[Faceman101]

Anything over 4500 is insane, even 4500 is very high for xVCD. No wonder you find problems playing your video. Cd lasers are meant to play media above 3500 or so.