Converting VHS to digital - looks better on TV than it does on comp.

[kevin qmto]

I've finally decided to get rid of my old VHS collection, and yes I'm one of those people who doesn't mind the lower quality picture and sound, I still play them back on a Toshiba CRT from the early 2000's after all.

But I have been using an Elgato Video Capture Card (on highest quality settings, no complaints about sync or file size), hooked up to my TV composite out lines, and while the picture on the TV looks acceptable, the finished capture playback on my computer is usually worse.

The colors are always more muted after capturing whatever film I'm recording, and sometimes there's much more waviness to the picture on the capture, than what is perceivable on the CRT TV. I don't think the Capture card is responsible, because whenever I record from a DVD these issues are not present, only VHS. But what perplex's me is why does the picture look so much better on the TV? Is it that the video is being degraded from having to travel from the VCR, to the TV, then out of the TV to the capture card? Sound is not affected in any noticeable way, sound just as good on the comp as the TV.

Thanks for the help!

[LMotlow]

Sorry, I don't get this one at all. Capturing VHS from a TV output? ? ? ?
What does "waviness" means?
Have you ever heard of a tbc?

[kevin qmto]

Video goes from VCR to TV, then a separate composite out goes from the TV to the capture card. I'd describe the picture quality as something else than wavy, but it's almost like screen tearing in video games if you know what that is. no I don't know of tbc.

[jagabo]

You need a line TBC to get rid of the horizontal jitter (waviness, falgging, etc.). Use something like an old Panasonic DVD recorder in passthrough mode (analog in, analog out).

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/306272-Computer-video-capture-vs-vcr-to-dvd-combo#post1882662
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/347549-Screen-Tearing-TBC-Problems-on-JVC-HM-DH40000U
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319420-Who-uses-a-DVD-recorder-as-a-line-TBC-and-w...light=recorder

You should be able to adjust the capture devices proc amp to get levels, saturation, colors right. Keep in mind that TVs are usually set for overly high contrast and saturation. Burn one of your caps to a DVD and watch it on the TV for comparison.

[kevin qmto]

ok jittery is a much better description. like when text comes on screen during a film, it appears to move around the frame slightly.

But does anyone know why it does not appear to happen on my TV? only on the capture?

[jagabo]

Post a sample of your capture so we can see exactly what you are talking about. But... TVs a are more forgiving of time base errors.

[JVRaines]

ok jittery is a much better description. like when text comes on screen during a film, it appears to move around the frame slightly.

But does anyone know why it does not appear to happen on my TV? only on the capture?

Because your TV is an analog device designed to stay in sync with the unsteady signal from the VCR. The digital converter doesn't have as much leeway because it is independently clocked and has to take a precise number of samples per time period.

[kevin qmto]

Here's a clip I captured. you can see how the text moves around a bit, and like I've said before, you really cant notice it at all when watching on TV. Perhaps something in the TV is correcting for this somehow? Or is that not a thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAJBQpwzSbU&feature=youtu.be

[JVRaines]

That's a lot of timebase error. Looks like your VCR needs service. As I explained, your TV is designed to accommodate timing variations better than a digital converter. Further, you are looking at interlaced video on a progressive display, which emphasizes the differences between lines from different fields.

[kevin qmto]

That's a lot of timebase error. Looks like your VCR needs service. As I explained, your TV is designed to accommodate timing variations better than a digital converter. Further, you are looking at interlaced video on a progressive display, which emphasizes the differences between lines from different fields.

weird, its a VCR I got from my grandparents estate, a relatively recent one too, manufactured in 2003 and I know it was almost never used. The only other VCR I have is probably 10 years older than that one, not sure if its been used in many years as well.

[jagabo]

It's hard to tell much from that sample because it's been deinterlaced and reencoded by youtube and maybe by you too. You should upload an interlaced sample directly from the device. This site accepts files up to 500MB (use the "Upload files/manage attachments" button below the edit box).

But it looks like you have both horizontal and vertical jitter. A DVD recorder passthrough should help with both of those. Could that be a second generation VHS recording? First generation recordings usually don't give that much vertical jitter.

[johnmeyer]

One word: Macrovision.

That is a commercial tape (as you can see from the first three seconds) and was very likely encoded with Macrovision which is designed to make it difficult to copy, but easy to watch. When you see it on your TV, you are watching it, but when you capture it, you are making a copy.

The right kind of TBC might be able to help, as would a capture chain which includes the ability to defeat Macrovision.

One way to test if my assumption is correct is to capture a tape that you made off the air. If that capture doesn't have these artifacts, then the problem is Macrovision.

[jagabo]

Macrovision.

You could be right. But most devices I've seen have a much more severe reaction to macrovision. They give a much more messed up picture or just stop capturing.

Capture devices are designed to recognize Macrovision -- irregularities in the video signal that don't bother a TV but other devices recognize and refuse to record. There are some devices which ignore Macrovision. For example, I have an old Hauppauge PVR-250 which will happily record commercial VHS tapes. And there are devices that remove the Macrovision signal -- marketed as video "clarifiers" or "stabilizers". For example:

https://www.amazon.com/XDIMAX-GREX-7-4-Grex-Video-Stabilizer/dp/B0096I2DNE/

[JVRaines]

weird, its a VCR I got from my grandparents estate, a relatively recent one too, manufactured in 2003 and I know it was almost never used.

A machine that has been sitting around for a decade will usually have problems with dried up lubricant.

[lordsmurf]

That tape shows Macrovision for sure. The luma is dark.

But the timing errors are unrelated. The VCR is just a typical terrible low-end unit. And FYI, newer decks from 2000s tend to be far worse than decks from the 90s, sometimes even the 80s.

VHS signals are chaos. Analog TVs hid this fact from you. But digital capture devices do not, and you see the raw quality signal. That's the simple explanation. The video was always terrible, and you're only now seeing it. Like beer goggles for video; now you're sober.

If you want to capture that, you'll need a better VCR and a TBC. No way to avoid it. (Well, not capturing at all = avoiding, but assuming that's not a choice.)