accidently shot wedding at 59fps, too choopy

[clashradio]

Hello,

I have a few DV cams, but borrowed a HD cam for a wedding and shot at 59fps Progressive becasue I'm a dummy. I'm not doing any slow-mo effects, just straight editing to blu-ray.

The rendererd footage, when I pan is too choppy. Static shots are great. Editing with Vegas Pro 12, in Project Properties I've tried changing the field order to UFF, and Progressive. Tried setting to 23 and 29fps. Tried rendering at 60i and 24P. All choppy. I can't render at 59; Vegas locks up.

I figured since 29 is half of 59 that would be the best render conversion. Do I set Vegas Properties to 29fps first before I drop the footage in the Timeline? (which would mean I have to totally re-edit the footage).

Please help. If it was just regular footage I wouldn't worry about. Wedding should be a once in a lifetime...

[Bernix]

Don't you mean 60000/1001 = 59,94 ? So half frame rate try 30000/1001 aka 29,97
Bernix

[clashradio]

Yes, i shot at 59.94.

Do you mean set the project properties at 29.97 or render? I've tried both with the same results.

[darkknight145]

Are you sure it's the 59fps that's causing it to be choppy on pans, If you had shutter on when shooting the footage this will also cause choppiness on pans.

[clashradio]

Oh i guess i just assumed it was the 59 that caused it. I meant to shot 24. In reading other ppl who shot 59 and are having issues editing they blame it on 59.

I dont see the choppy effect while viewing the footage in the Timeline. That's why i assumed it was from the conversion from 59 to 24/29.

[poisondeathray]

What do you mean straight to blu ray ? Is this a 1280x720p59.94 project ? Because that would work perfectly for BD. 1920x1080p59.94 isn't supported by BD, but 1920x1080i is supported. If source footage was 1920x1080p59.94 , those are the two standard options for BD (I'm assuming you want "HD", not "SD" BD )

If you're converting 59.94p to 24.0p or 23.976p, just do the math - it's not evenly divisible so it's going to be choppy. You either blend or drop frames. You can get fancy with 3rd party interpolation/ retiming methods, but they only work ok some of the time, many shots are ruined with artifacts

[clashradio]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean straight to BD. I meant I'm not doing any tricks like slow-mo, color grading, just simple editing; Then to DVD-A to BD-R. However DVD-A has a few project burning options like 29.97i, 23.97P etc. I've tried them both. 29i looks way too jittery. Even when I've rendered at 29.97.

The footage is 1920x1080P 59.94, and I'd like to output in 1080P, so yes I'd like to keep it HD if possible.

I have tried "blend fields","interpolate" and "none" on Deinterlace Method, all choppy. I picked 29.97 as it's half of 59.94. Figured an even drop would be the best option? Maybe I should just edit out the pan moves?

If BD doesn't support 1920x1080p 59.94, what's the purpose of recording in that mode? Like I said I'm a dumbass for using that setting vs. 23.97.

[Cornucopia]

I'm guessing that somehow you are going from 59.94p -> 29.97p -> 29.97i (aka 59.94i), instead of 59.94p -> 29.97i. Simple alternate line removal (A1234,B1234 becomes A13,B24) is best for this. Will NOT be choppy, as it gives the same impression of smooth motion.
The purpose of that 59.94p recording mode is that it has both the highest frame resolution and the highest temporal resolution, and you can always downgrade to other versions from there, maintaining the most quality. This all assumes you know what you're doing.
If you had always assumed all along that the one and only destination format you were ever going to want this to be in was BD, then yes it would have made more sense to stick with 1080i59, 720p59, or 1080p24. But if you wanted to futureproof your footage as much as possible, you made the right choice.
Now all that is necessary is for you to learn the optimal ways of downsampling, downscaling, etc.

Scott

[Vidd]

Leave the frame rate as 59.94p and resize the video to 1280×720 for the Blu-ray project. 1280×720 59.94p is a valid Blu-ray resolution as mentioned above.

Then take the 1920×1080 59.94p footage and put it on a flash drive or portable hard drive and give it to the wedding couple. Explain to them they can watch it on a PC or media player. That way they get a Blu-ray that is not choppy and also get the maximum quality video.

[_Al_]

NLE like Vegas or DVD A would not make nice show going from 59.94p to 29.97i. Especially if shot with short shutter speeds (set up by auto modes in camcorders).

At this point the winner seems to be making BD from 59.94p1080 to 720p59.94. You can let Vegas or DVD A do it. There is nothing to mess up. Just simple downresize is happening.
No one would recognize that video is 720p as oppose 1080p. Do not be afraid to do it. Especially if camera was hand held, auto modes selected. They might notice if you give them original to compare. But nothing serious. Definitely better feel as oppose you'd make interlace 1080i in Vegas or DVD A.

[clashradio]

In Vegas Project Properties, Template-dropdown I see "HD 720-60P (1280x720, 59.94)", but I'm confused when I go to select Render-as. Under Main Concept mpeg-2, I see all the various Blu-ray resolution sizes (1440x1080 24p/50i/60i) 1920x1080 24p/50i/60i) etc. But none that match 1280x720.

Can't find that size under Main Concept AVC/MVC either. Do I have to manually change the width and height? Which template do I select; 24p, or 60i?

I feel pretty silly asking. I've tried to read up on field order, downsizing resolution. Tested various Field Order, Deinterlace Method, frame rate tests. My head is spinning....

[jagabo]

Why don't you upload a short sample of your encoded jerky video? Then everyone ca at least see what's wrong.

[_Al_]

Yes samples usually resolve problem just like that.

I feel pretty silly asking

It is not silly, because I can see where it is heading, that template is not there,

You can modify those templates, it is mostly allowed, choosing that MainConcept avc or Sony avc, make sure it is 59.94fps (you can write it there if there is no selection), but sure it might not be exactly BD compatible or DVD A would want to re-encode again.

Or try here, someone made that template. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/burn-a-720p-bd--97125/

Or as a last resort, but not a bad solution, export 720p59.94 avi uncompressed (huge file) or lossless avi and feed it to DVD Architect, it has 1280x720 avc project video format to set. Architect will render that video from that AVI.

[clashradio]

Why don't you upload a short sample of your encoded jerky video?

I have a Dropbox account. Or is there a way to directly attach the clip here? (I've been working with a 15 second clip with these tests vs. the whole project).

I have tried customizing a handful of the templates, with similar jerky results.

How do I export avi uncompressed, or lossless avi? The output of these templates says mpeg-2, and no option for avi.

I'm not sure if that Template link is dead? "Or try here, someone made that template. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/burn-a-720p-bd--97125". It goes to that page, but the link on that page seems dead?

[jagabo]

Why don't you upload a short sample of your encoded jerky video?

I have a Dropbox account. Or is there a way to directly attach the clip here? (I've been working with a 15 second clip with these tests vs. the whole project).

Below the edit boxes where you type your replies is an "Upload files/Manage attachments" button. You can upload up to 500 MB files to this site.

[_Al_]

First I'd wait for that upload and some comments,
and yes that link seams to be dead

How do I export avi uncompressed, or lossless avi?

File/Render As/Video for Windows
but uncompressed is huge
or Sony YUV, but that is uncompressed as well, huge

a lossless codec is going to appear there only if you have it installed in your PC, if you do not have any, for example, magicYUV is ok, you can save some space

[Bernix]

Hi,
Is it necessary lossless ? There is problem with frame rate conversion and source is progressive. So why not direct stream copy? If Vegas can do it. Or use different software to achieve this. But I am wrong again, I bet
Bernix

[clashradio]

[QUOTE=_Al_;2500100]First I'd wait for that upload and some comments,
and yes that link seams to be dead

Ok, I'll upload that 15 sec clip when I get home from work. Thanks for working with me fellow videophiles.

Bernix: when you say Direct Steam Copy, do you mean render at 59.94? Vegas gives me an error.

I guess worse comes to worse I can render via Video for Windows uncompressed and just have DVD-A re-compress. Although the properties options for DVD-A are only 29i, 23p, 24p. When I select 29i it's way too interlaced/jittery.

So the rate I used (59.94p) is an archive file? not really meant to viewed? Sort-of like a film negative as the master, and a theatrical print as the transport?

[Bernix]

Hi,
i dont know the format. Can you tell me container and video codec and audio codec ?
Perphas is it mp4 h264/h265 with aac/ac3 or similar, so there is a solution to direct stream copy. If is it proprietary, there can be problem.

Bernix

[Bernix]

Hi,
I noticed, the feature in Sony Vegas should be named Smart rendering, but if it not works, no problem. There is Avidemux, MKVtoolnix, or virtualdub (different version) For me is easiest to do it in Avidemux. Just open video here. go to 30 sec. press mark B on the bottom. This will choose 1st 30 sec. of video. Then under video left copy, under audio left copy also (or choose any compression to save some bits and in filter remux to stereo if you reencode audio), and in output format choose what you want, but probably MP4 or MKV or TS will be good, as it is most common extensions nowadays (My point of view)
Anybody corrected me, if I am wrong please.

EDIT:http://wolfcrow.com/blog/the-sony-vegas-pro-export-guide-part-one-internal-workflows/

Bernix

[jagabo]

Nobody wants to download a huge uncompressed video just to see frame rate issues.

[clashradio]

Here is a test video. Vegas shows the details of the raw video as 1920x1080, 59.94, Alpha= none, field order=none. I dropped the new rendered video back in Vegas to see what the details are: properties are: 1920x1080 29.97 field order= UFF.

-In Project Properties, I selected/changed: deinterlace method=none, field order=none, frame rate=59.94 [Template dropdown] HD 720-60p (1280x720 59.94fps)
-Render-as: Main Concept MPEG-2, Blu-ray 1920x1080 60i [customize template] 2 pass checked, field order=upper field first (wasn't sure if I should keep it at progressive scan or not?), frame rate=29.97

I also did a render test using the Render-as "video for Windows" (avi) and found the uncompressed, Sony YUV etc. The Sony YUV looked just as choppy. But then I remember I downloaded a h264 option (x264lfw-H.264/mpeg-4 AVC codec. That looked good on my test.

Maybe a better fault to state is blurry, not choppy?

https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43509&stc=1&d=1509051624

[jagabo]

That video is 1080i at 29.97 fps, 59.94 fields per second. It should play smoothly on a properly set up system.

[LMotlow]

Yep, the sample is 1080i @29.97fps interlaced, which is valid for BluRay (Note that 1080p @60fps is not BluRay compliant).
Your MP2 audio won't work for BluRay.
Thank goodness I never threw any money into Vegas. Non-compliant BD audio is a joke at those prices.

[clashradio]

That video is 1080i at 29.97 fps, 59.94 fields per second. It should play smoothly on a properly set up system.

But what setting do I use in DVD-A? 23.97p, 24p, 29.97i? Since the video is now in 29.97 and interlaced, I figured I should use 29.97i to burn. When I do it looks terrible (on my computer monitor).

[jagabo]

I figured I should use 29.97i to burn. When I do it looks terrible (on my computer monitor).

I think you have a playback problem, not an encoding problem. What player are you using?

[clashradio]

I figured I should use 29.97i to burn. When I do it looks terrible (on my computer monitor).

I think you have a playback problem, not an encoding problem. What player are you using?

I'm using the preview mode in DVD-A when screening the rendered footage. I can select from 23p, 24p and 29i. DVD-A defaults the output to 23.97p. I figured since my project is 29.97i, then that's what I should select when burning.

[_Al_]

My Vegas interprets footage properly as 1920x1080i, upper field first, it is regular , pretty, interlaced video.

also it plays back on PC well, also mediaifo, all players identify it as interlaced 1920x1080, not sure where did you come up with that 59.94

1. Set your project to the same properties, you have there template 1920x1080, 29.97, interlacedit will select upper field first.
If you do not know what your video properties are, use "match settings" for project, so video and project is better the same.

2. Export Blu-ray video stream 1920x1080i settings, 29.97i

3. Export audio AC3 ,Render As/ Dolby Digital AC3 - template stereo DVD

4.DVD Architect ,
File/new/ project to Blu-Ray 1920x1080i , mpeg2 or avc, depending what you get from Vegas
make your Blu-Ray
make sure, File/Optimize Disk ... that DVD Architect would not render video again, you'd see it there, if you see exclamation mark under stream, it means it will re-render, you do not want that, you want to see a check mark there


changing project properties does not mean you have to edit it again, just do it, the only problem might be generated graphics, they could be generated as your original settings, so just re-do titles only etc. to make sure

IF for some reason your videos are identified as 59.94 in Vegas, you have to change that within Vegas and interpret those footages manually to 29.97 interlaced, upper field first, but agai, you do not have to re-edit it, just manually interpret footage - right click a clip/properties, media TAB and fix it there

[clashradio]

At this point the winner seems to be making BD from 59.94p1080 to 720p59.94. You can let Vegas or DVD A do it. There is nothing to mess up. Just simple downresize is happening.

Just curious as to what the effect is converting to 1280x720p 59.94?

[jagabo]

At this point the winner seems to be making BD from 59.94p1080 to 720p59.94. You can let Vegas or DVD A do it. There is nothing to mess up. Just simple downresize is happening.

Just curious as to what the effect is converting to 1280x720p 59.94?

Full motion resolution, reduced spacial resolution.