Best quality VHS capturing advice

[PMVcr]

Hi guys. im looking for best way to digitalize VHS tapes over scart.
What capture card should I get (would a PEXHDCAP) work? I want to capture the tapes lossless for archival on hardrive. What program and what codec should I use? Thanks in adnvance

[hech54]

Does this PEXHDCAP thing have a SCART connection? Doubt it.

[LMotlow]

Hi guys. im looking for best way to digitalize VHS tapes over scart.
What capture card should I get (would a PEXHDCAP) work? I want to capture the tapes lossless for archival on hardrive. What program and what codec should I use? Thanks in adnvance

Welcome to the forum. If you browse back a few days or weeks, you'll find a few dozen threads concerning VHS capture for digital video.

The Startech device was designed for game capture. It will not capture to lossless formats. It will not capture interlaced video -- and if you deinterlace VHS during capture you'll be very sorry you did. Users and other reviewers aren't in love with its image quality, either.

The "best" capture process is via s-video output from a player with built-in line-level TBC, thru an external frame-level tbc, into a USB or PCI capture card from ATI/AMD or other ATI-chip-based USB spinoff. If a tbc-equipped player is unavailable, you can use older Panasonic DVD recorders as a tbc pass-thru device, which is discussed in several areas in this forum. Use VirtualDub to capture to YUY2 color using the lossless huffyuv or Lagarith codec. Clean up the usual VHS noise, defects, dropouts, and other disturbances with Avisynth and/or VirtualDub, edit the cleaned-up lossless media in an NLE of your choice, and find a good final delivery encoder for MPEG, MPEG4, or standard definition BluRay. Don't attempt to upsize VHS to HD frame sizes -- you cannot make VHS look like HD by just making the frame larger. HD looks the way it does because it starts out that way, not just because the frames are bigger.

There are many here who feel that lossless capture is a waste of time and that you only get a 10% improvement after all the work you put into it (I guess they don't know what they're doing, because plenty of people get 100% improvement with the proper cleanup, but that's their business). You can always capture to DV and put up with the mosquito noise and other problems that arise from VHS-to-DV capture, and which you would have to at least clean minimally if you expect to view the results on anything larger than a 12" TV.

Very likely the easiest solution is to record directly to high-bitrate MPEG with a DVD recorder, something most people do when they find out that the "best" way isn't what they're prepared for. Up to you.

[usually_quiet]

Hi guys. im looking for best way to digitalize VHS tapes over scart.
What capture card should I get (would a PEXHDCAP) work? I want to capture the tapes lossless for archival on hardrive. What program and what codec should I use? Thanks in adnvance

A PEXHDCAP doesn't accept SCART, S-Video, or composite input. Video gamers use a "Sync Strike" SCART to VGA converter to capture from old game consoles with its VGA connection, but I'm not sure how this setup would work for VHS capture. The signal from a VCR is messy compared to that from a game console and you should capture interlaced, which VGA is not. AmRecTV is often used with the PEXHDCAP.

I think there must be a better solution available to you. I'm hoping one of our European members will see this and suggest one.

[usually_quiet]

The Startech device was designed for game capture. It will not capture to lossless formats. It will not capture interlaced video -- and if you deinterlace VHS during capture you'll be very sorry you did. Users and other reviewers aren't in love with its image quality, either.

The Startech PEXHDCAP can capture to lossless formats as it does not encode with hardware, and can capture interlaced video via component and HDMI. Look at the tech specs here:http://www.startech.com/AV/Converters/Video/PCI-Express-HD-Video-Capture-Card-1080p-HD...onent~PEXHDCAP

[Edit]I forgot to mention, the image quality with lossless capture is quite good, based on examples I have seen.

I think you must have confused the PEXHDCAP with a different capture device.

[PMVcr]

Does this PEXHDCAP thing have a SCART connection? Doubt it.

I don't think there is a card out there with scart in. The way I read you go scart => sync striker => vga (RGB signal) and audio out => vga to dvi converter => DVI in (PEXHDCAP) + audio in (PC), that how the retro console gamers do it.

[PMVcr]

Hi guys. im looking for best way to digitalize VHS tapes over scart.
What capture card should I get (would a PEXHDCAP) work? I want to capture the tapes lossless for archival on hardrive. What program and what codec should I use? Thanks in adnvance

Welcome to the forum. If you browse back a few dayus or weeks, you'll find a few dozen threads concerning VHS capture for digital video.

The Startech device was designed for game capture. It will not capture to lossless formats. It will not capture interlaced video -- and if you deinterlace VHS during capture you'll be very sorry you did. Users and other reviewers aren't in love with its image quality, either.

The "best" capture process is via s-video output from a player with built-in line-level TBC, thru an external frame-level tbc, into a USB or PCI capture card from ATI/AMD or other ATI-chip-based USB spinoff. If a tbc-equipped player is unavailable, you can use older Panasonic DVD recorders as a tbc pass-thru device, which is discussed in several areas in this forum. Use VirtualDub to capture to YUY2 color using the lossless huffyuv or Lagarith codec. Clean up the usual VHS noise, defects, dropouts, and other disturbances with Avisynth and/or VirtualDub, edit the cleaned-up lossless media in an NLE of your choice, and find a good final delivery encoder for MPEG, MPEG4, or standard definition BluRay. Don't attempt to upsize VHS to HD frame sizes -- you cannot make VHS look like HD by just making the frame larger. HD looks the way it does because it starts out that way, not just because the frames are bigger.

There are many here who feel that lossless capture is a waste of time and that you only get a 10% improvement after all the work you put into it (I guess they don't know what they're doing, because plenty of people get 100% improvement with the proper cleanup, but that's their business). You can always capture to DV and put up with the mosquito noise and other problems that arise from VHS-to-DV capture, and which you would have to at least clean minimally if you expect to view the results on anything larger than a 12" TV.

Very likely the easiest solution is to record directly to high-bitrate MPEG with a DVD recorder, something most people do when they find out that the "best" way isn't what they're prepared for. Up to you.

So for best quality need to use a VCR with TBC from where I send the signal thru an external frame-level tbc to the pc capture card. Do does external TBC units have a scart or rgb input (the units I saw, had only s-video and composite in)? This would mean a decrease in signal quality, since the signal coming from the VCR throught SCART is RGB?

[usually_quiet]

Does this PEXHDCAP thing have a SCART connection? Doubt it.

It doesn't don't think there is a card out there with scart in. The way I read you go scart => sync striker => vga (RGB signal) and audio out => vga to dvi converter => DVI in (PEXHDCAP) + audio in (PC), that how the retro console gamers do it.

It is only possible to capture interlaced video as progressive video using that set up. The problem is that VHS is interlaced, and a lot of the tools used to correct flaws in VHS capture are designed to work with interlaced video. Sometimes it is possible to re-interlace video that was Bob de-interlaced, but I don't know if re-interlacing will work with video captured with set up you plan to use.

I mentioned in my previous post VHS signals are messy compared to those from game consoles. It is sometimes necessary to use time base correction to stabilize a VHS signal so the capture device can lock onto the signal, or use a DVD recorder as a pass-through device to correct tearing. This would need to be done before the signal goes to the Sync Strike. I don't know if there is anything available with SCART in and SCART out that can provide time base correction or help with tearing/flagging.

I really think you need a more conventional VHS capture set up.

[LMotlow]

The Startech device was designed for game capture. It will not capture to lossless formats. It will not capture interlaced video -- and if you deinterlace VHS during capture you'll be very sorry you did. Users and other reviewers aren't in love with its image quality, either.

The Startech PEXHDCAP can capture to lossless formats as it does not encode with hardware, and can capture interlaced video via component and HDMI. Look at the tech specs here:http://www.startech.com/AV/Converters/Video/PCI-Express-HD-Video-Capture-Card-1080p-HD...onent~PEXHDCAP

I'll take your word for it. I don't see anything in that spec about lossless capability. All I see is MPEG4/h264.

[usually_quiet]

I don't see anything in that spec about lossless capability. All I see is MPEG4/h264.

That is with Startech's provided capture software. AmaRecTV and other third-party software that works with the PEXHDCAP can use lossless software encoders.

[hech54]

Does this PEXHDCAP thing have a SCART connection? Doubt it.

It doesn't don't think there is a card out there with scart in. The way I read you go scart => sync striker => vga (RGB signal) and audio out => vga to dvi converter => DVI in (PEXHDCAP) + audio in (PC), that how the retro console gamers do it.

Yes.....I just read that too. You did specify SCART.

Hi guys. im looking for best way to digitalize VHS tapes over scart.
What capture card should I get (would a PEXHDCAP) work? I want to capture the tapes lossless for archival on hardrive. What program and what codec should I use? Thanks in adnvance

[PMVcr]

Thanks for all the info guys. I think im going to talk to the retro guys, maybe someone has experimented with VHS capture or is willing to try.

[Brad]

This would mean a decrease in signal quality, since the signal coming from the VCR throught SCART is RGB?

Unless you have tested it, you can't assume that your VCR is sending RGB over SCART. The interface supports RGB, but it doesn't require those pins actually be used. Your VCR probably only outputs composite even over SCART.

Even if you could capture RGB from a VHS machine, it wouldn't represent an increase in quality over S-Video. The signal stored on the tape is closer to S-Video than it is to RGB, necessitating a conversion. Then if you capture in a YCbCr format like YUY2 you're converting back again.

[PMVcr]

This would mean a decrease in signal quality, since the signal coming from the VCR throught SCART is RGB?

Unless you have tested it, you can't assume that your VCR is sending RGB over SCART. The interface supports RGB, but it doesn't require those pins actually be used. Your VCR probably only outputs composite even over SCART.

Even if you could capture RGB from a VHS machine, it wouldn't represent an increase in quality over S-Video. The signal stored on the tape is closer to S-Video than it is to RGB, necessitating a conversion. Then if you capture in a YCbCr format like YUY2 you're converting back again.

You are right. Upon further digging, I did came to the same conclusion. The VHS/S-VHS VCRs record the video signal from analog PAL broadcast (terrestrial or via SAT receiver) in a composite form on tape (chroma and luminance separated + something else). So the best way is to go S-video with TBC on an VHS/S-VHS recorder => to an external TBC => S-VIDEO in on PC and then a lossless codec to digitalize and save to a container like avi.

What do the professional services do more with the material when they digitizer the tapes?

[LMotlow]

Depends on which "professionals" you refer to. There are plenty of amateurs who call themselves professional if they charge for their work, regardless of the methods or results. The movie and broadcast pros work with lossless material with various formats and lossless encoders. Many capture analog to lossy plain-vanilla DV under the mistaken impression that DV is somehow superior to lossless media and that capturing to DV will magically "improve" VHS. Most reputable shops, however, will capture to lossless media for you if you ask. Contact the services people at www.digitalfaq.com and ask what they would offer and recommend. They do have a capture and restoration guide that's worth a look, even if some of it is a bit out of date -- the hardware might change, but the principles don't: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video.htm

[usually_quiet]

This would mean a decrease in signal quality, since the signal coming from the VCR throught SCART is RGB?

Unless you have tested it, you can't assume that your VCR is sending RGB over SCART. The interface supports RGB, but it doesn't require those pins actually be used. Your VCR probably only outputs composite even over SCART.

Even if you could capture RGB from a VHS machine, it wouldn't represent an increase in quality over S-Video. The signal stored on the tape is closer to S-Video than it is to RGB, necessitating a conversion. Then if you capture in a YCbCr format like YUY2 you're converting back again.

You are right. Upon further digging, I did came to the same conclusion. The VHS/S-VHS VCRs record the video signal from analog PAL broadcast (terrestrial or via SAT receiver) in a composite form on tape (chroma and luminance separated + something else). So the best way is to go S-video with TBC on an VHS/S-VHS recorder => to an external TBC => S-VIDEO in on PC and then a lossless codec to digitalize and save to a container like avi.

What do the professional services do more with the material when they digitizer the tapes?

Pro VHS decks are old enough that it is hard to find one in good condition, and even if not in good condition, they are expensive. The average joe alternative is a good consumer VCR with composite out (or composite out via a SCART adapter) + DVD recorder as a pass-though(line TBC substitute) + consumer full-frame TBC + capture device.

Here are some recommended capture devices http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/3200-best-ati-wonder.html