Need advice: VHS capturing device

[nikgelfi]

Hi all!
I am trying to transfer a series of VHS (many with Macrovision protection, mainly Disney cartoons) to my HDD.
My current equipment

VCR: Loewe VV4306H (I am going to replace it with a Panasonic NV 200 with built-in TBC)
Capture card: Exagerate Smart DVD Maker (USB)
I live in Italy, so I have only PAL videos to capture.

Computer specs:
CPU: Core 2 Quad Q9650
6 GB RAM
MB Asus P5B Deluxe
Windows 7 x64 Professional

I already have decent results using AVS4You Video Recorder, but with some tapes I can't reach an acceptable quality (I get some strange "ghost" images when the motion is fast, only in certain tapes).

My questions are:
1) should I change my capture card to something more expensive, like Canopus ADVC-110 (the ATI 600 devices, as I read before, are not good for me as I use Windows 7...)?
2) do I absolutely need an external TBC, even with the built-in TBC in the Panasonic NV 200?

Thank you very much for your help and sorry for my newby-ness!

[nikgelfi]

No one? Too "newby-like" question?

[lowellriggsiam]

It might help if you post screen shots of the problem you are encountering.

[Cauptain]

Hi all!
I am trying to transfer a series of VHS (many with Macrovision protection, mainly Disney cartoons) to my HDD.
My current equipment



I already have decent results using AVS4You Video Recorder, but with some tapes I can't reach an acceptable quality (I get some strange "ghost" images when the motion is fast, only in certain tapes).

My questions are:
1) should I change my capture card to something more expensive, like Canopus ADVC-110 (the ATI 600 devices, as I read before, are not good for me as I use Windows 7...)?

2) do I absolutely need an external TBC, even with the built-in TBC in the Panasonic NV 200?

Thank you very much for your help and sorry for my newby-ness!

If you can another USB card, get EZCAP Capture Pro (Component input).

Do you try Virtualdub?? For macrovision VD work like a charm...Output AVi uncompressed file or UT video codec. encode to X264.



Claudio

[nikgelfi]

It might help if you post screen shots of the problem you are encountering.

The big questions were in fact
1) do I need a further external TBC even with the Panasoni NV FS 200 VCR?
2) is it worth it to buy a more expensive capture card, like the Canopus ADVC 110?

Here is a screenshot with the problem I encountered capturing a certain tape. So far only with this tape I have encountered this problem.
Thanks again for your suggestions.

[nikgelfi]

If you can another USB card, get EZCAP Capture Pro (Component input).

Do you try Virtualdub?? For macrovision VD work like a charm...Output AVi uncompressed file or UT video codec. encode to X264.



Claudio

Claudio, thanks for the EZCAP suggestion.
As for Virtualdub, I have already tried it, but I have audio/video sync and interlacing issues (which don't happen if I capture in MPEG-2). With AVS Video Recorder I manage to bypass Macrovision, but I am wondering if it is worth it to upgrade my equipment further.
Thanks again!

[Cauptain]

If you can another USB card, get EZCAP Capture Pro (Component input).

Do you try Virtualdub?? For macrovision VD work like a charm...Output AVi uncompressed file or UT video codec. encode to X264.



Claudio

Claudio, thanks for the EZCAP suggestion.
As for Virtualdub, I have already tried it, but I have audio/video sync and interlacing issues (which don't happen if I capture in MPEG-2). With AVS Video Recorder I manage to bypass Macrovision, but I am wondering if it is worth it to upgrade my equipment further.
Thanks again!

Hi nikgelfi

But there is your problem. For an excellent capture VHS mode use RAW (uncompressed) even if it is interlaced. At the time of encode you use the filter deinterlacer and ready.

For audio desync, in audio captue tab untick "Enable AUDIO PLAYBACK"to record. This solves the problem.

To better capture, pause your antivirus software and close all programs in Bg.

In Windows 7 use Classic mode (this frees up resources) to record smooth.

If you want I make a video tutorial and post here.


PS: About the picture that you posted, the problem is because the program uses deinterlaced wrong. The ideal is to capture interlaced and then use a filter to correct this.


Claudio

[nikgelfi]

Hi nikgelfi

But there is your problem. For an excellent capture VHS mode use RAW (uncompressed) even if it is interlaced. At the time of encode you use the filter deinterlacer and ready.

For audio desync, in audio captue tab untick "Enable AUDIO PLAYBACK"to record. This solves the problem.

To better capture, pause your antivirus software and close all programs in Bg.

In Windows 7 use Classic mode (this frees up resources) to record smooth.

If you want I make a video tutorial and post here.



Claudio

I am trying to capture a VHS in RAW with Virtualdub now, with playback disabled. I hope I don't get any sync issues.
As for the resources, my PC is quite powerful, CPU is never used above 15% during video capture...
The tutorial would be greatly appreciated, anyway, espcially for the deinterlacing and encoding part!
Thanks!

[jagabo]

Here is a screenshot with the problem I encountered capturing a certain tape. So far only with this tape I have encountered this problem.

That is a blend deinterlace of an interlaced source. Capture interlaced. Inverse telecine or IVTC to progressive frames if necessary.

[jbd5010]

Yeah, that's a hefty Quad Core processor and 6GB of ram is plenty. Definitely not a resource issue.

From the screenshot, the program is interpolating two fields that are not adjacent in time. You're seeing an image created from two interlaced fields that are probably 5 or so frames apart in time. Make sure on Virtualdub that you don't have any video filters applied. Not sure if by "RAW" you guys are talking about uncompressed AVI... but if you're not, just try uncompressed AVI. Then after you're done capturing, apply the deinterlacing filters.

From the looks of that screenshot (even with the wrong fields mashed together), your video looks pretty clean. You might be able to get away without a TBC, and I would venture to guess the Panasonic built-in TBC will be sufficient to correct any problems you'll run into, especially if all of the tapes are in decent shape like the one pictured above appears to be. Remember, a TBC-1000 won't correct horizontal jitter or tearing (just learned that myself recently!)

[jagabo]

Since this is PAL video, after capturing interlaced, the first thing to try in VirtualDub is the Field Delay filter.

[nikgelfi]

Yeah, that's a hefty Quad Core processor and 6GB of ram is plenty. Definitely not a resource issue.

From the screenshot, the program is interpolating two fields that are not adjacent in time. You're seeing an image created from two interlaced fields that are probably 5 or so frames apart in time. Make sure on Virtualdub that you don't have any video filters applied. Not sure if by "RAW" you guys are talking about uncompressed AVI... but if you're not, just try uncompressed AVI. Then after you're done capturing, apply the deinterlacing filters.

From the looks of that screenshot (even with the wrong fields mashed together), your video looks pretty clean. You might be able to get away without a TBC, and I would venture to guess the Panasonic built-in TBC will be sufficient to correct any problems you'll run into, especially if all of the tapes are in decent shape like the one pictured above appears to be. Remember, a TBC-1000 won't correct horizontal jitter or tearing (just learned that myself recently!)

Thank you very much for your reply.
I tried capturing a VHS with Virtualdub, in uncompressed AVI (about 31GB for 38 mins!!). I had audio/video sync issues, until I changed an option under the "Timing" tab (see screenshot). I had to set the radio button to "Sync video to audio..." to get a perfect sync. Is that a correct procedure?
Another question: can you please suggest a particular filter for deinterlacing? What codec would you use knowing that almost all the videos are cartoons?
Thank your very much again.

[jagabo]

Disk I/O is usually a problem when trying to capture uncompressed AVI -- leading to A/V sync errors. Set VirtualDub to capture as YUY2 and use HuffYUV (lossless compression) as the compression codec. That will reduce Disk I/O to manageable levels without hurting image quality at all.

Avoid audio compression while capturing. That also causes problems.

[Cauptain]

Hi nikgelfi,

I made a simple tutorials on how to capture and deinterlace record video.

You can change the codecs according to your needs. The same way that you can use any filter available.

If you want videos showing real differences, just say that post.

PS: In the deinterlace method I use to best mode for video smooth. Try with and without.

Both tutorials are in the RAR file.

Get here: Virtualdub Easy Capture Config and Deinterlaced mode



Claudio

[lordsmurf]

Don't deinterlace video -- it ruins it.
A section of this page is dedicated to interlacing: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/guides/video/capture-understand-sources.htm
No reason for it.

FYI, the "ezcap" device is a piece of crap. Don't use it.

[Cauptain]

Don't deinterlace video -- it ruins it.
A section of this page is dedicated to interlacing: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/guides/video/capture-understand-sources.htm
No reason for it.

FYI, the "ezcap" device is a piece of crap. Don't use it.

There is a reason for this Lordsmurf.

Get a videogame console (Ps3/x360/WII, with all outputs composite, component and HDMI ) record in interlaced mode (29.970).

After record play it ... No good to see correct? (jerking playing)

Go to Vdub (basic program for deinterlaced video) and select Yadif + Double frame rate mode.

Play again ... WOW look's very very nice smoothest video, equal to the console.

So I quoted to be about video games. But you can capture HDTV 1080i and use the Same tip ... Once again ... WOW very very nice video look.

But this is something personal and not everyone can enjoy. I recommend doing a test before. The result is wonderful

You already tried the newest EZCAP version? I liked the result 480p@60fps. For those who want to record videos of gambles online serves very well and very cheap


PS: Tks for Digital link, very good infos.

Claudio

[victoriabears]

Are the disney videos available on DVD (surely), just get them or download them, converting is a last resort

[nikgelfi]

Don't deinterlace video -- it ruins it.
A section of this page is dedicated to interlacing: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/guides/video/capture-understand-sources.htm
No reason for it.

FYI, the "ezcap" device is a piece of crap. Don't use it.

Thank you lordsmurf for your reply.
So, you would stick with my "Exagerate Smart DVD Maker" (USB) or upgrade to something better, like the Canopus ADVC?
Thanks again yor your patience.

[nikgelfi]

Are the disney videos available on DVD (surely), just get them or download them, converting is a last resort

Yeah I know, but here in Italy the dubbing in the DVDs is a lot worse than in the VHS, and besides that I want my collection of original VHS to last a few more years...
Thanks anyway!

[Cauptain]

Hi nikgelfi,

For some comparison.

Original video: ORIGINAL CAPTURE INTERLACED

Filtering video: DEINTERLACED YADIF+DOUBLE FRAME RATE


Claudio

[jagabo]

Since he's capturing film sourced PAL video he probably doesn't need to deinterlace. Just recombine the proper fields as I indicated earlier.

By the way Cauptain, the chroma channels in your deinterlaced video are screwed up:



Notice how the red and green colors from the character's arm are smeared over the floor? That's because those colors are from the previous field. This is a result of VirtualDub's incorrect handling of interlaced YV12 video. You should feed VirtualDub YUY2 instead. Or maybe you saved your interlaced video with progressive YV12 encoding before deinterlacing.

[nikgelfi]

Another problem just emerged! Having read lordsmurf suggested FAQ, I wanted to capture my VHS at 352x576 resolution. Problem is I am not able to capture AVI in 352x576 format. Not with VirtualDub or AVS Video Recorder.
If I try with Cyberlink Power Director or Nero Vision (both capture in MPEG2) I capture 352x576 flawlessly.
See screenshot of what happens in VirtualDub if I sed 352x576. All is fine with 720x576.
Same with AVS Video Recorder.
Thanks again for your help.

[jagabo]

VirtualDub displays with square pixels by default. That's so that one pixel in the image is mapped to one pixel on the screen. That is important when filtering -- you want to be sure what you see is the effect of the filters, not the resizing to correct the aspect ratio. All you have to do is flag the video for 4:3 display when you encode it.

[nikgelfi]

All you have to do is flag the video for 4:3 display when you encode it.

Can you please tell me where that flag is? I can't find it...
Thanks again...

[jagabo]

All you have to do is flag the video for 4:3 display when you encode it.

Can you please tell me where that flag is? I can't find it...
Thanks again...

It will be in the encoder options. For example, In Xvid press the More... button in the Profile @ Level section, go to the Aspect Ratio tab, and set the Pixel Aspect Ratio or Display Aspect Ratio.

If the codec you're using doesn't support the AR flags you can force the flag in later encoder (HcEnc, for example).

[Cauptain]

Jagabo,

Thank you very much for your infos and tips.

My video record are perfect deinterlaced now. look:

Once again, Tks Sir.



Claudio

[jagabo]

Jagabo,

Thank you very much for your infos and tips.

My video record are perfect deinterlaced now. look:

Once again, Tks Sir.



Claudio

Yes, much better!

[lordsmurf]

So, you would stick with my "Exagerate Smart DVD Maker" (USB) or upgrade to something better, like the Canopus ADVC? Thanks again yor your patience.

It depends.

I have some USB devices that are trash, and the Canopus ADVC boxes are easily much better.
The 55 would work, FYI -- the 110 isn't necessary.

On the other hand, I have USB sticks that can flawlessly capture HuffYUV lossless.

It all comes down to the ability to capture lossless, and have many other errors the sticks may have.

[nikgelfi]

It depends.

I have some USB devices that are trash, and the Canopus ADVC boxes are easily much better.
The 55 would work, FYI -- the 110 isn't necessary.

On the other hand, I have USB sticks that can flawlessly capture HuffYUV lossless.

It all comes down to the ability to capture lossless, and have many other errors the sticks may have.

Hi lordsmurf, how can I test my USB stick to see if its performances with lossless capture are acceptable?
Thanks again for your help.