DVD Subtitles won't show up in DVD Player

[oshare_banchou]

I have an ISO disk image file that contains two subtitle files (English and Spanish subs). When I play the ISO on VLC player, the English subtitles appear. When I burned the ISO to a DVD and played it on my DVD player, only the Spanish subtitles appear (an "English" selection does appear, but when I click on it, it displays as Spanish). I have gone back and forth between DVD player, Xbox 360, and PC. The only player able to display the English subtitles is VLC. How can I get the subtitles to display on my DVD player?

[Skiller]

Does the DVD have a menu to choose a subtitle language? Or did you try changing it during playback using the subtitle button on the remote?

[oshare_banchou]

Does the DVD have a menu to choose a subtitle language? Or did you try changing it during playback using the subtitle button on the remote?

It does not have a subtitle selection on the menu. You have to toggle the subtitles using the remote.

[Skiller]

OK.
Well, maybe the DVD has the subtitle PUO (Prohibited User Action) set, so that you cannot change the subtitle track. VLC is faily ignorant about PUOs, it would explain what you're experiencing.

If it's the case it's rather odd though you get to see an English selection, players usually won't show anything but a symbol that tells you you cannot do this operation if it's prohibited by the DVD.

[oshare_banchou]

OK.
Well, maybe the DVD has the subtitle PUO (Prohibited User Action) set, so that you cannot change the subtitle track. VLC is faily ignorant about PUOs, it would explain what you're experiencing.

If it's the case it's rather odd though you get to see an English selection, players usually won't show anything but a symbol that tells you you cannot do this operation if it's prohibited by the DVD.

Is there a way to disable the PUO? How can I get those English subtitles up?

[Skiller]

The fastest way to find out is probably to mount your ISO to a virtual drive and then use PgcEdit to check the PUOs of the movie's program chain (PGC). Just fire up PgcEdit and select your virtual drive, it'll load everything automatically.
On the left double click on the main movie PGC (it's the one with the longest run time, easy to spot), in the new window look for Prohibited User Operations in the top left area and click the "..." button to view them.
Is "Subpicture stream change" ticked?

[oshare_banchou]

The fastest way to find out is probably to mount your ISO to a virtual drive and then use PgcEdit to check the PUOs of the movie's program chain (PGC). Just fire up PgcEdit and select your virtual drive, it'll load everything automatically.
On the left double click on the main movie PGC (it's the one with the longest run time, easy to spot), in the new window look for Prohibited User Operations in the top left area and click the "..." button to view them.
Is "Subpicture stream change" ticked?

I could not find the tick. When I opened the DVD in PGCedit, I got the following messages (I clicked yes to fix them, but I didn't save the ISO):
-Warning: There are 2 discrepancies in some VMGM/VTSI_MAT tables. Do you want to run the "Fix number of streams" macro to fix them?


-Error loading NAV pack from "VTS_01_1.VOB"
at sector 3843 (in file):
Nav Pack identifier not valid.
The VOB file *may* be CSS encoded:
You cannot edit a CSS encoded disc!
Or the VOB doesn't match the IFOs:
Try to do a mock strip with IfoEdit.


Skip remaining 'Bad Nav Pack' error messages
for the current domain??


-There are 32 subpic streams defined for the VTST domainin the VTSI_MAT table of the VTST 1.
2 subpic streams are really used by the PGCs.
Fix the number of subpic streams in VTSI_MAT to 2?


-There are 8 audio streams defined for the VTST domainin the VTSI_MAT table of the VTST 1.
2 audio streams are really used by the PGCs.
Fix the number of audio streams in VTSI_MAT to 2?


I'm not sure if any of these errors would specify the problem.




After clicking on the PGC of the main movie, I got this information:


VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (1:26:43) Title 1 - Chapters: 22, Programs: 22, Cells: 22


********** pre commands:
1 Set gprm(8) =(mov) 0
2 Set gprm(9) =(mov) 0
3 if ( gprm(0) == gprm(9) ) then { (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 0 }
4 Set gprm(0) =(mov) 1
5 Set gprm(4) =(mov) 1
********** post commands:
1 Set gprm(10) =(mov) 1
2 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 3, resume cell 1
********** cell commands:






Playback time: 01:26:43.25 (at 30 fps)
PG Playback mode: sequential
PUOs: 0 (0x00000000)
NextPGCN: 0
PrevPGCN: 0
GoUpPGCN: 0
PGC Still Time: 0
Audio stream 1 status: 0x00008000 (stream=0)
Audio stream 2 status: 0x00008100 (stream=1)
Subpic stream 1 status: 0x80000000 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)
Subpic stream 2 status: 0x81000000 (streams for 4:3=1, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)


BOVs Chap. Prog. Cell Type Seam- Ang VOBU Cell Cell Playback End Entry First Last Last VOB Cell
(PTT) Flags less Still Still Cmd. Time Time VOBU ILVU VOBU VOBU ID ID
Joint Time # sector End Start End


? 1 1 1 2 no - no 0 0 00:01:19.01 00:01:19.01 0 0 32553 32769 1 1
? 2 2 2 8 yes - no 0 0 00:05:43.29 00:07:03.00 32770 0 171128 171377 1 2
? 3 3 3 8 yes - no 0 0 00:01:19.29 00:08:22.29 171378 0 204941 205156 1 3
? 4 4 4 8 yes - no 0 0 00:03:43.12 00:12:06.11 205157 0 300260 300490 1 4
? 5 5 5 8 yes - no 0 0 00:01:09.08 00:13:15.19 300491 0 329426 329767 1 5
? 6 6 6 8 yes - no 0 0 00:10:42.06 00:23:57.25 329768 0 594026 594322 1 6
? 7 7 7 8 yes - no 0 0 00:00:18.25 00:24:16.20 594323 0 602063 602449 1 7
? 8 8 8 8 yes - no 0 0 00:05:42.24 00:29:59.14 602450 0 753157 753536 1 8
? 9 9 9 8 yes - no 0 0 00:03:40.21 00:33:40.05 753537 0 836516 836819 1 9
? 10 10 10 8 yes - no 0 0 00:03:29.25 00:37:10.00 836820 0 927150 927524 1 10
? 11 11 11 8 yes - no 0 0 00:04:44.10 00:41:54.10 927525 0 1052479 1052736 1 11
? 12 12 12 8 yes - no 0 0 00:04:55.01 00:46:49.11 1052737 0 1160654 1161021 1 12
? 13 13 13 8 yes - no 0 0 00:06:24.19 00:53:14.00 1161022 0 1319181 1319497 1 13
? 14 14 14 8 yes - no 0 0 00:04:31.00 00:57:45.00 1319498 0 1429339 1429524 1 14
? 15 15 15 8 yes - no 0 0 00:02:08.25 00:59:53.25 1429525 0 1486155 1486526 1 15
? 16 16 16 8 yes - no 0 0 00:02:12.01 01:02:05.26 1486527 0 1544057 1544250 1 16
? 17 17 17 8 yes - no 0 0 00:01:26.00 01:03:31.26 1544251 0 1570368 1570510 1 17
? 18 18 18 8 yes - no 0 0 00:01:26.14 01:04:58.10 1570511 0 1603915 1604085 1 18
? 19 19 19 8 yes - no 0 0 00:07:53.20 01:12:52.00 1604086 0 1815298 1815608 1 19
? 20 20 20 8 yes - no 0 0 00:02:59.00 01:15:51.00 1815609 0 1896152 1896630 1 20
? 21 21 21 8 yes - no 0 0 00:06:13.15 01:22:04.15 1896631 0 2057520 2057701 1 21
? 22 22 22 8 yes - no 0 0 00:04:39.10 01:26:43.25 2057702 0 2162174 2162243 1 22






Does any of this information help find the solution?

[oshare_banchou]

The fastest way to find out is probably to mount your ISO to a virtual drive and then use PgcEdit to check the PUOs of the movie's program chain (PGC). Just fire up PgcEdit and select your virtual drive, it'll load everything automatically.
On the left double click on the main movie PGC (it's the one with the longest run time, easy to spot), in the new window look for Prohibited User Operations in the top left area and click the "..." button to view them.
Is "Subpicture stream change" ticked?

Also, here is the streams information:


DVD: "G:/VIDEO_TS/"
DVD-TEXT General Name: ""
Provider ID: ""
Number of VTS: 2


VMG Menu streams attributes (VIDEO_TS.IFO): 1 Audio, 1 Sub-picture streams.
- Video: 4:3 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-2 (VBR)
- Audio 0: --, unspecified, AC3 (2 channels), Unspecified application mode
- Subpic: --, unspecified




VTS 1 Menu streams attributes (VTS_01_0.IFO): 1 Audio, 1 Sub-picture streams.
- Video: 16:9 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-2 (VBR), Automatic Letterbox (letterbox: not cropped)
- Audio 0: --, unspecified, AC3 (2 channels), Unspecified application mode
- Subpic: --, unspecified


VTS 1 VOB streams attributes (VTS_01_0.IFO): 2 Audio, 2 Sub-picture streams.
- Video: 16:9 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-2 (VBR), Automatic Letterbox (letterbox: not cropped)
- Audio 0: ja, unspecified, AC3 (6 channels), Unspecified application mode
- Audio 1: ja, unspecified, AC3 (2 channels), Unspecified application mode
- Subpic 0: es, unspecified
- Subpic 1: en, unspecified




VTS 2 Menu streams attributes (VTS_02_0.IFO): 0 Audio, 1 Sub-picture streams.
- Video: 4:3 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-2 (VBR)
- Subpic: --, unspecified


VTS 2 VOB streams attributes (VTS_02_0.IFO): 1 Audio, 0 Sub-picture streams.
- Video: 4:3 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-2 (VBR)
- Audio 0: ja, unspecified, AC3 (2 channels), Unspecified application mode

[r0lZ]

The interesting bits of information are:

PUOs:           0 (0x00000000)
[...]
Subpic stream  1 status: 0x80000000 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)
Subpic stream  2 status: 0x81000000 (streams for 4:3=1, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)

and

VTS 1 VOB streams attributes (VTS_01_0.IFO): 2 Audio, 2 Sub-picture streams.
- Video:    16:9 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-2 (VBR), Automatic Letterbox (letterbox: not cropped)
[...]
- Subpic 0: es, unspecified
- Subpic 1: en, unspecified

The PUOs value is 0, so no Prohibited User Operation exist for that title. (It is theoretically possible to define PUOs in the VOB file as well, but I doubt it's the problem here.)

The two subpic entries in the PGC define stream #0 for the Spanish language in all display modes, and, for English, define stream #1 for the 4:3 aspect ratio, and stream #0 for wide, letterbox and pan&scan. The first definition is correct, but the definition for the English language is correct only for a 4:3 movie, but wrong for a 16:9 movie. Since the movie is in 16:9, the player has to select either the wide, letterbox or pan&scan mode when it displays the movie (depending on the 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio of the TV set and its configuration). When the movie is displayed, it uses the subtitle stream pointed to by the corresponding mode, that is, in this case, stream #0, in Spanish. So, it appears that VLC is wrong, and the hardware players respect the information coded in the IFO. If it is not possible to display the English subtitles, it's due to an authoring bug in the DVD.

It is easy to fix the bug.
Decrypt the DVD to hard disc, then open the decrypted DVD in PgcEdit, double-click the main movie PGC to open the PGC Editor, then click on the second subpic (the English one, the button with "1 0 0 0"), and change the streams values like this:

4:3: 0
wide: 1
letterbox: 1
pan&scan: 1

(BTW, you should see that the "4:3" label is grayed out, meaning that its value is irrelevant, and is theoretically ignored by the players. The DVD-Video specs require to set it to 0, even if it is ignored. For the same reason, one of the letterbox or pan&scan labels can also be grayed out. If it's the case, you can leave its value to 0.)

Click Set to close the dialog, then OK to close the PGC Editor.
When done, the stream status should be this:

Subpic stream  2 status: 0x80010101 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=1, letterbox=1, pan&scan=1)

Save the DVD and burn the modified files with ImgBurn.


Side note: I wonder why VLC displays the English subs. It's not at all logical, but it is possible to guess that there is an authoring error, as to use stream #0, the stream values for the 4 modes should be 0 (like the definition for the Spanish language). The fact that 1 is set in the wrong mode may be sufficient to guess that the intention was to use stream #1, and that may explain why VLC forces it. Anyway, once again, VLC is not compliant with the DVD-Video specs, even if in this case, its decision seems to be good.

[Skiller]

Excellent diagnosis, r0lZ. Couldn't have said it better.

[r0lZ]

Thanks.

BTW, the Stream Attreibutes info shows also that the Automatic Letterbox mode ios used in 4:3 (like almost always for the main movie), and therefore the pan&scan mode is not used (and should be grayed out in the streams selection dialog). As a consequence, its stream value should be left to 0, and the correct streams status is:

Subpic stream  2 status: 0x80010100 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=1, letterbox=1, pan&scan=0)

(However, although the pan$scan value must theoretically be 0, all players should ignore its value, and it can safely be 1.)

[oshare_banchou]

Thanks.

BTW, the Stream Attreibutes info shows also that the Automatic Letterbox mode ios used in 4:3 (like almost always for the main movie), and therefore the pan&scan mode is not used (and should be grayed out in the streams selection dialog). As a consequence, its stream value should be left to 0, and the correct streams status is:

Subpic stream  2 status: 0x80010100 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=1, letterbox=1, pan&scan=0)

(However, although the pan$scan value must theoretically be 0, all players should ignore its value, and it can safely be 1.)

After decrypting the ISO with DVDFab and changing the PGC as you stated, I was finally able to access the subtitles on my DVD player. Thank you both very much for your help, it is much appreciated!