How to generate a movie alternating between 3 clips

[WebMaximus]

Started another thread a couple of days ago how to make a split screen movie using Avisynth but since that solution didn't work out the way I was hoping for due to problems with the aspect ratio I'm now trying to find a way to generate a movie from 3 clips where I want the output movie to alternate between the 3 input clips every 10 seconds.

So let's say I have clip a, b and c. What I would like is to find a way to produce an output movie that will play the first 10 seconds using clip a as the input source, the next 10 seconds using clip b, then clip c and then back to clip a again and so on.

The time sync between the input clips must remain meaning the output should be from 00:00-00:09 from clip a, then from 00:10-00:19 from clip b, from 00:20-00:29 from clip c and so on for the whole duration of the input clips.

Anyone knows how to accomplish this?

[smrpix]

In any decent NLE, sync up the 3 clips on 3 separate tracks and chop away. In an expensive NLE, sync up the tracks, create a multicam clip and chop away.

In Avisynth, create a looping script that calls each file sequentially (as discuseed in your other thread) adding 30:00 to each iteration.

[WebMaximus]

Do you have any suggestions on good NLEs that would let me do this?

However using a looping Avisynth script sounds very nice but since I'm no programmer nor an expert on movie editing I'm not sure how to do this but will try to figureout by reading more about Avisynth scripting.

[smrpix]

The usual suspects, Vegas movie studio usually available at a deep discount, Premiere elements. Some folks like Power Director or Pinnacle.

[jagabo]

Note that an NLE probably won't do it automatically. You'll probably have to mark each section. So if you have an hour long video switching every 10 seconds that's 360 clips you'll have to mark.

[smrpix]

Note that an NLE probably won't do it automatically. You'll probably have to mark each section. So if you have an hour long video switching every 10 seconds that's 360 clips you'll have to mark.

True. But for many of us that's still quicker than writing and debugging a complex avisynth script once you get into the rhythm of it. Also, the NLE method has the advantage of letting you make modifications on the fly based on content you can see.

[WebMaximus]

I checked out Vegas Movie Studio but I'm not sure what version I would need and the price is almost the double if I would need the Platinum version 12 edition. Looking at...

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/homestudio

...Movie Studio 11 is 34,95€ and Movie Studio Platinum 12 64,95€.

Registered in their forum to ask about this but found out after registering that I need to already be a customer with a registered product to post in their forums.

Does anyone in here know what version of Movie Studio would let me alternate the clips in the way I described in this thread?

[smrpix]

The most basic version is up to the task:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro/compare

And let's face it, you could probably do this within the time limits of the free trial.

[WebMaximus]

Thanks, I found that comparison page myself but wasn't sure what to look for since I don't know the name of the feature I need.

Was lucky enough to find a clip on YouTube in which as far as I can tell it's expained exactly what I'm looking for using Vegas Movie Studio and it looks pretty easy as well so if I could do what is done in this clip using the 34,95€ version I'll go for it and by doing so saving myself lots of both time and brain cells...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1VkY6v3Ll4

[WebMaximus]

One more thing I would like to ask before deciding if I should buy the basic version, are there any "must-have" features in the Platinum version I would likely miss in the future if I buy the basic version?

I realize this might be a hard question to answer when you (and I) don't know at this time what I might want to do in the future but I just want to try not being cheap and later regret that.

And came to think of one more thing...I noticed the version number of the basic version is 11 where it's 12 for the Platinum verison. Does that mean the basic version is to become a "dead" version which will no longer receieve updates etc compared to the Platinum 12 version?

[smrpix]

One more thing I would like to ask before deciding if I should buy the basic version, are there any "must-have" features in the Platinum version I would likely miss in the future if I buy the basic version?

Look through the comparison chart and decide.

And came to think of one more thing...I noticed the version number of the basic version is 11 where it's 12 for the Platinum verison. Does that mean the basic version is to become a "dead" version which will no longer receieve updates etc compared to the Platinum 12 version?

All software becomes obsolete sooner or later. Upgrades tend to come at a discount -- though you really don't know what they're going to be.

[WebMaximus]

Well...reason I asked what version to get is I'm a newbie and all features on the comparison chart don't really mean much to me but I'll go with the basic version and should I miss any features in the future I noticed you can upgrade to the Platinum version at a reduced cost.

[TreeTops]

One of the things you don't get with the basic version is 'DVD Architect Studio'. That program lets you makes menus and other things for your dvd.

[WebMaximus]

OK, thanks but at this time I think the basic version will be more than enough for me.

I've downloaded the trial version of VMS 11 and managed to accomplish what I wanted to but now I have the most stupid problem...I don't know how to save (or render as Sony likes to call it) the output file. There are lots of preset profiles to choose from but I was hoping to find something familiar like xvid where I will end up with a reasonable filesize but what I've tried so far from the render templates available no luck...

I tried to find some information about this and at several different places I read you should be able to create a custom render profile by choosing Project-Render As... but either I'm blind or there is no button in the dialog that let me create a custom render profile. Wonder if this could be some kind of limitation in the trial version...?

Would really appreciate if someone could help me understand how to save/render or whatever you like to call it an output file from VMS. If possible I would be very happy if I could choose the xvid codec I normally use in VirtualDub which gives both great IQ and a reasonable filesize.

[DB83]

When you select the 'Render As' from the project menu, you click on 'custom' and that should allow you to select whatever codec you want to render the file.

[WebMaximus]

Problem is I don't have a custom button to click on, this is what it looks like after I clicked Render As... under the Project menu

[smrpix]

You have to choose a preset in order for the custom option to become available.

Tick the match project settings box and see if anything comes up with an mp4 option,
otherwise try one of the sony avc/mvc presets.

If you choose an option with video for windows (avi) and custom settings you can actually use xvid, assuming its installed in your system.

[DB83]

Ok. No custom button(I have Movie Studio HD Platinum v10) but I still see a list of the codecs you can select for the output format.

Xvid is not a very efficient codec these days.

[WebMaximus]

Ok. No custom button(I have Movie Studio HD Platinum v10) but I still see a list of the codecs you can select for the output format.

Xvid is not a very efficient codec these days.

What output format would you recommend these days?

Xvid compresses a 20 GB FRAPS file to approx 800 MB with almost no loss in quality.

[WebMaximus]

You have to choose a preset in order for the custom option to become available.

Tick the match project settings box and see if anything comes up with an mp4 option,
otherwise try one of the sony avc/mvc presets.

If you choose an option with video for windows (avi) and custom settings you can actually use xvid, assuming its installed in your system.

Already tried several presets but without having a custom button to show up but I'll test again tomorrow.

Sounds great I should be able to choose Xvid great because that's what I've been using before with VirtualDub and I've been very happy with both the compression ratio and quality.

[DB83]

I see you joined the forum only a few months after me so I would have thought that you would have paid a few visits here to keep up with codecs and basic info.

To state that a video has been compressed with Xvid 'with almost no loss of quality' is outrageous in the extreme. But if you are happy with what you see and it is your eyes that decieve you in the actual quality loss then so be it.

Xvid is h263. h264 is far more efficient both in compression and file sizes. Both of these are lossy codecs so you lose quality. There can be no arguement with that.

[WebMaximus]

DB83...I'm truely sorry if I offended your codec expertise pride by claiming Xvid would compress with almost no loss of quality so let me ease your burden by adding a couple of words as follows:

Xvid compresses a 20 GB FRAPS file to approx 800 MB with almost no loss in quality in my eyes

Then...judging my knowledge of codecs by looking at the date when I joined this forum is a very poor way doing it. If it's of interest to you I would suggest you rather aim at looking at the number of posts I did since I joined and the content of those posts made by me. You will then discover that I'm far from an expert when it comes to codecs or audio and video in general which is the very reason I visit a forum like this one to ask for help when I need it. I actaully also stated this fact very clearly in this thread if you check some of my earlier posts.

In the end you're absolutely right in what really matters is if I'm happy with what I see and yes...I've been very happy with what I've seen using VirtualDub and Xvid to compress files in FRAPS format and I'm far from the only one which you'll easily find out if you do a Google search on the subject. I've also tried using a codec called x264vfw - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC but (and again in my eyes...) the difference in IQ and size of the output file was marginal but if you can tell me how to produce an output file from VMS using the H.264 codec I would be more than grateful and perfectly happy! To me it doesn't matter what codec is used, I just want to be able to save my output in a file that isn't ridicuolusly big but still with descent quality.

Now...back on track...

@smrpix - Thanks for your input and tips! I've tried what you suggested but regardless what render template I choose I don't get that custom button showing up so something clearly must be wrong here and I'm pretty sure it's my lacking knowledge about VMS.

First of all, looking at the project properties what settings in there are important for me to check? This is what it currently looks like


[Attachment 18458 - Click to enlarge]

Checking the properties of one of the 3 FRAPS files I'm working with under the Explorer tab in VMS this is what it says:

Video: 00:10:38,033, 30,000 fps, 1920x1058x24, Fraps Video Decompressor
Audio: 00:10:38,033, 48 000 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo, Uncompressed

What I find very strange (and maybe this is a clue why things don't work here) is that looking at the available output formats after checking the 'Match project settings' option in the Render as dialog all formats listed are audio only as seen here...not a single video format listed...?!


[Attachment 18459 - Click to enlarge]

This is what my timeline looks like in VMS and as you can see to accomplish what I wanted in the first place and the main reason for trying VMS out I have inserted a composite level envelope for all 3 video tracks to be able to alternate between them during replay following the tip on this I found here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1VkY6v3Ll4



So...now I just need to understand how to save my output from VMS and I'm home free

[smrpix]

Vegas may not export to fraps -- although if it does it will be under the video for windows (avi) options. Forget about match project settings for now.

You want your export window to look something like this, you have to select a template (any template) in order to customize it:



Also FWIW, I find it faster to "add edits" rather than use envelopes -- but that's just two different ways of skinning the cat.

You've already come far from where this thread started. Well done.

[DB83]

It was never my intention to offend you. For the record, I am no expert but I have learnt much by simply reading the forum as it makes no difference of what you actually post (start topics).

I'll echo what smrpix wrote that you do need to select the video for windows avi type to be able to have a 'custom' button and then the Xvid codec. Sorry for not clarifying that in my initial reply.

The version of VMS that I am using just seems to make it easier.

If you want to try h264 within Vegas then just select AVC/AAC (.mp4)

[WebMaximus]

Vegas may not export to fraps -- although if it does it will be under the video for windows (avi) options. Forget about match project settings for now.

You want your export window to look something like this, you have to select a template (any template) in order to customize it:


[Attachment 18461 - Click to enlarge]

Also FWIW, I find it faster to "add edits" rather than use envelopes -- but that's just two different ways of skinning the cat.

You've already come far from where this thread started. Well done.

Thanks for the encouragement

I might have been unclear but I don't want Vegas to export to FRAPS but the other way around. My input consists of 3 files in FRAPS format and I want to use these files to produce an output that will alternate between these 3 clips while playing back and I want this output in a format that doesn't take up too much space yet is compatible with most players and where the quality still is on an acceptable level.

I managed to do this using VirtualDub with the Xvid and/or H.264 codec mentioned earlier. The result was a movie clip roughly 800 MB in size and the quality was good enough for me. The input video clips are just over 10 minutes long so I still think 800 MB is quite big for only a 10 minutes clip but at least it's far better than the original size of the clips when they are in FRAPS format and they are like 20 GB each. Problem with using VirtualDub (or actaully AviSynth scrips) was I couldn't figure out how to produce an output that would alternate between the 3 input clips...that's why I'm now trying out Vegas.

Maybe a short resumé would be in place to better understand what I'm trying to do here.

First of all the input clips are screen captures in different views from a flight segment in Microsoft Flight Simulator X and the captures are made by FRAPS. One clip from a cockpit perspective and the other two clips looking out over the left and right wings from a passenger's perspective. My initial plan was to use a "split-view/PiP" approach like this...



...which I was able to accomplish by using an AviSynth script and feeding the script to VirtualDub but I later realized much of the immersion factor went away having the different perspectives stacked together like this rather than watching each one of them in full-screen mode like this...



...so that's when I got the idea maybe I could find a way to alternate between them while playing them back instead. I figured using that approach would both let me watch the replay of the flight from all perspectives but at the same time keep the immersion factor watching them in full-screen mode.

As already said above I couldn't figure out how to accomplish this using AviSynth scripts so that's why I started looking for another way of doing it and ended up with Vegas and I was especially thrilled when I found that YouTube clip I linked earlier since that clip spot on showed the effect I was looking for.

With that said back on topic again

I understand I need to first select a template to be able to customize it but problem is as seen here that despite selecting a template in the list (and I think I've tried them all but using the same one as you in this example...) I never get this 'Customize Template...'-button



I did learn one more thing though since my last post

Reason I only had audio templates to choose from in my list when checking 'Match project settings' in the Render as... dialog was that I had pressed the 'Match Media Settings' button on the Video tab in the Project properties window and then pointing out one of the 3 input clips in FRAPS format thinking that would help Vegas understand the input format. However that didn't do any good but instead resulted in only showing audio templates in the Render As dialog. When selecting one of the pre-defined profiles under Project Properties (in this case HD 1080-60i (1920x1080; 29,970 fps)) I have now both video and audio templates to choose from in the list again.

So...that brings us back to my main concern at this moment...why don't I get to see this Customize Template button so I can choose my own output format like Xvid, H.264 or a similar format that will give me both a descent filesize and quality.

Do you think the problem could be that I'm running the Trial version and this is some kind of limitation that you can't customize your own output formats in this version? I will definitely buy Vegas but before doing so obviously I want to see it will let me do what I want.

Then lastly...you said:

"Also FWIW, I find it faster to "add edits" rather than use envelopes -- but that's just two different ways of skinning the cat."

I'm more than willing to try new stuff and especially if they like you say are faster so if you could explain a little bit more how to add these edits my ears are all opened Will try to find some information about this myself in the meantime but again...doesn't matter what method I use to give me the effect of alternating between my input clips as long as I can't figure out how to save my output...

[WebMaximus]

It was never my intention to offend you. For the record, I am no expert but I have learnt much by simply reading the forum as it makes no difference of what you actually post (start topics).

I'll echo what smrpix wrote that you do need to select the video for windows avi type to be able to have a 'custom' button and then the Xvid codec. Sorry for not clarifying that in my initial reply.

The version of VMS that I am using just seems to make it easier.

If you want to try h264 within Vegas then just select AVC/AAC (.mp4)

No problem, just felt what you wrote didn't sound much helpful nor friendly but maybe it was me reading what you wrote in the wrong way. Good we have it sorted anyway!

As you can read in my reply to smrpix it doesn't matter if I select a template, I still don't get this Customize Template button. As for trying the H.264 codec in Vegas this is what the list look like here when choosing the AVC/AAC category and also in this screenshot I have selected one of the templates as you can see but still no Customize Template button so I more and more start to think this is some kind of limitation in the Trial version I'm running. Very annoying if that indeed is the case because I won't be able to test what I want to before buying the product...

[DB83]

I would not have thought that the trial version is limited in this way. But there is also a 'Suite' version. What version does our friend use ?

Unfortunately, I can not try this version(12) myself since by OS is almost as old as The Ark (XP).

Do you have a 'Video For Windows.avi' selection ?.

[smrpix]

Yeah, looks like you have to go to platinum. I'm surprised. Can you finish this within the trial period?

[WebMaximus]

Well...let's hope it's not limited in that way since that as I said would stop me from trying what I really want to try and the reason I downloaded the trial version.

I downloaded the Vegas Movie Studio 11.0 HD, the most basic version after a tip from smrpix who in post #8 said this version would be up to the task but maybe I should try downloading the Platinum version 12 instead and see if it's any difference? Hopefully it's not since the Platinum version costs almost twice as much...

Just wondering if I would be allowed to download and use that version in Trial mode as well now that I'm already running this version in Trial. Obviously I would then first uninstall this version but when checking the About-box in this version I see it's already registered to me and I also seem to have got a temporary serial nr and a machine ID.

Yes, I do have a Video For Windows section with lots of templates as seen in these 2 screenshots but again no matter which one I pick I don't get to see the Customize Template button and I'm not sure if any of these preset templates would be equal to using the Xvid or H.264 codecs I usually use when working in VirtualDub? I have tried some of these preset templates. For instance I tried the one marked as matching the project properties called HD 1080-60i YUV with a very short test clip also made by FRAPS. The duration of the clip is only 7 seconds but yet the output using this template in Vegas was nearly 1 GB and it would only play the audio and not the video using WMP so guess it's using some special codecs I don't have on my PC.




Too bad really such a simple thing as saving your output file in a "normal" format should be so hard when I finally found a program that would let me mix my clips the way I wanted...sigh...

[smrpix]

If you want to try h264 within Vegas then just select AVC/AAC (.mp4)

This should work well. I'd be curious to see a mediainfo report on your 7 sec 1GB clip.