VdubMod Audio sync problems. What am I missing?

[Tedbundy]

Here's the process I use.

First, I rip dvd with claddvd.net3.5.7 (since it's free)

I open the IFO file in Vdub and I go in to full processing mode. I change a few settings such as deinterlace, Resize, I use Xvid DX50, I crop, and a couple other things that I cannot remember right now and I mostly leave audio alone. Only thing I can think of that I change in audio is the volume and I change it to AC3 at 112 bitrate and every time the audio is out of sync.

I'm not too familiar with vdub (still learning) Is there an option for sync? or can I load this into another program and let that automatically fix it.

I do get a warning every time I load in a IFO that says something about audio may not have joined or something but it still lets me encode it. Does this with every video I rip. maybe claddvd isn't the best program - suggestions on a different program that rips to IFO without quality loss would be appreciated.

Thanks

[manono]

First, I rip dvd with claddvd.net3.5.7 (since it's free)

It hasn't been updated in seven and a half years. If your DVD is newish with copy protections added since then, that could be the reason for all your problems. Try the free DVDFab HD Decrypter for decrypting.

I open the IFO file in Vdub and I go in to full processing mode.

VDub(Mod) opens IFOs? Even if it does, you're going about it the wrong way.

I change a few settings such as deinterlace,

If it's a movie it doesn't need deinterlacing. An IVTC maybe, but not deinterlacing

Only thing I can think of that I change in audio is the volume and I change it to AC3 at 112 bitrate...

You don't care much about quality, I guess. Even for stereo, AC3 with a bitrate of 112 is horribly low. It's pretty crappy even for MP3.

...and every time the audio is out of sync.

It could come down to the original decrypt. Redo it with DVDFab. It's no guarantee, but it's way better than this CladDVD.

You're making XviD AVIs, right? My suggestion is to decrypt it and then hand off the actual encoding to AutoGK. You can open the IFO or the first VOB and the rest of them will be opened automatically.

Or, if it's a constant delay (off by the same amount all the way through), you could set a delay for the finished AVI and fix it. You just have to figure the amount it's off.

[Tedbundy]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Really appreciate that.

I care about quality but I'm not too anal about it as I prefer smaller files over really great quality. the steps I've done has produced quality good enough for me as I'm not trying to upload and share so I don't really care what others think. The only problem was the sync issues.

I have DVDFAB HD Decrypter and I can't find the option to rip in IFO mode. I've read on google that it was only in older versions or something... I've checked through the settings and can't find anything to do with that.

I use to encode with autogk and the quality that produces isn't as good as vdub. If you say that I'm going about this the wrong way - I believe you. I followed a tutorial from youtube and Those were the steps that was told to follow.

as vdub opening IFO. I'm assuming it's IFO as there are only two files. 1 VOB and 1 IFO.

Old version of DVDFAB I had use to rip in IFO and I know because that's how I use to seperate episodes in TV shows. but, I can't find any older versions.

Thanks

[manono]

TV show episodes are different as very few have advanced copy protection. For them you can use DVD Decrypter in IFO Mode.

as vdub opening IFO. I'm assuming it's IFO as there are only two files. 1 VOB and 1 IFO.

The thread title specifically mentions VDubMod. Which doesn't open IFOs. VDub doesn't either, at least not natively, although maybe there's a plugin for it I don't know about.

As for DVDFab HD Decrypter, you want either the entire DVD or the Main movie. I think you're right that it doesn't have an IFO Mode and may not separate out episodes. But, as I understand it, your current problem with out-of-synch audio isn't from an episodic DVD? And if it is episodic, after decrypting the full DVD to the hard drive you can separate out the episodes using PGCDemux or DVD Shrink.

Can you point me to this YouTube video that instructs you to open IFOs in VDub?

[Tedbundy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fksyqY_H5z0

I'm not trying to rip TV shows anymore. I just want some of my movies I own on my pc.

[manono]

If I didn't know any better I'd say that guy was purposely trying to teach people how to encode poorly. No self-respecting person or group would use those methods. I'd suggest you forget you ever saw that video.

Anyway, he didn't open an IFO in VDubMod, but a VOB.

I'd still suggest using AutoGK and if you have any problems post a log and ask a question. No one needs to convert to XviD at 700 MB anymore anyway. Do 1-pass quality-based encodes in AutoGK for the default 75% with a width of maybe 640 and let the sizes fall where they may.

And if size is a consideration, I would think seriously about converting to x264/AAC if I were you.

[Tedbundy]

lol I don't get it though. To me the quality is fine. I normally do encode in autogk. I've tried just about everything with that program to get something that would fit my taste (even if it's bad taste to you lol) and, I still can't get anything that is as good as the one I just made using that video I showed you. I've even watched video tutorials on autogk and still nothing. it's always so pixelated.

the 700mb is convenient for me to take my small 300GB external and laptop packed with movies with me when I travel for work.

I do absolutely love autogk though. I normally use 640 with 128 mp3 settings at 700 mb and it's pixelated very badly. If I use 75% file is way too large. I've even pulled up the hidden menu and fooled with that to see if I could make it any better and still no good result for me. maybe the blending filters help smooth it out in vdubmod.

I will try to rerip with a different program and see if that was the issue.

What's it called when you rip a single vob like that video showed? maybe that fabhd will at least do that

[manono]

I normally use 640 with 128 mp3 settings at 700 mb and it's pixelated very badly.

Maybe you're trying to compress a movie that doesn't compress well. Maybe you're forcing the resolution too high for the movie to compress well. There could be several reasons for it not turning out well. Please post the log for an encode that didn't turn out as you had hoped - one that ended up with that 'pixellation'.

maybe the blending filters help smooth it out in vdubmod.

Nope. And deinterlacing a movie is about the worst thing you can do. Now, if it was shot on video that's a different matter, but that blending deinterlacer, in spite of what it says about it, is very bad for quality, unless you like watching a blurry mess.

What's it called when you rip a single vob like that video showed? maybe that fabhd will at least do that

I wondered about that too, if the guy was working with a single 1 GB VOB or if the whole movie was there in that single VOB. Since he used your CladDVD, maybe it has an option to decrypt it to a single file. If not, DVDDecrypter has that option (but don't use it on newer films on DVD that have advanced copy protection), or you can merge them all afterwards using VobMerge or VOB2MPG.

[hello_hello]

One problem with AutoGK may relate to the version of Xvid you have installed if you're not using the version AutoGK installs itself. AutoGK changes the encoder settings according to the compression test results and uses the appropriate Xvid home theatre profile. The problem is, the encoder setup has changed and as a result AutoGK can think it's telling Xvid to use the Home Theater profile but it actually uses one of the mobile profiles which can cause Xvid to restrict the bitrate far more then it otherwise would. There could be other encoder settings which aren't correct as a result, I'm not sure, but before blaming AutoGK make sure you have the correct version of Xvid installed. AutoGK uses VirtualDubMod and Xvid to do the encoding just as you are, so all else being equal it shouldn't do a worse job, and if you leave everything in Auto mode it's very good at giving you the best quality it can for a chosen file size, so if it's not working as it should there must be a reason. You'd normally need to really know what you're doing to produce a better encode than AutoGK if it's working properly, especially if you leave the video resolution and audio settings on auto so AutoGK can adjust them if need be.

If you've ripped an entire DVD, try opening the ripped files with DVD Shrink. In it's options change the target file size setting to something large, or at least DVD9, so DVDShrink won't try to re-encode anything. Use it's re-author function to drag the movie title from the right pane to the left (or each episode title if it's an episodic DVD) and then use it's backup function to save the re-authored version to a new location on your hard drive. That'll give you a single IFO file per movie/episode to open with AutoGK which you should be able to encode without any audio sync issues. It sounds like the DVD mightn't have been ripped correctly which can cause audio sync problems. I don't know if it could also cause the encode to be pixelated. Have you used AutoGK's preview function to see what the video looks like before it's encoded? If so, I assume the video in the preview looks fine?

I don't use AutoGK much these days as I generally encode using the x264 encoder, but if I need to encode video as an Xvid/AVI, I generally get AutoGK to do it.

[Tedbundy]

you can merge them all afterwards using VobMerge or VOB2MPG.

That sounds like a good idea if I can't figure out how to rip a single vob with the whole movie in it. Thanks. never knew you could do that. I will try to do a encode tonight with autogk and then post the log sometime tomorrow after work.

@hello

You use similar steps that I use when I encode with autogk. - I rip movie with dvdshrink in reauthor mode and I change compression settings to none. and, after it's done. I open it up in autogk to do the other settings. quality always looks good on a PC no matter if it's autogk or vdubmod. The issue I'm trying to fix is when I plug my external to my usb bluray player and play it through my HDTV - that's where I see the difference between vdubmod and autogk.

TV series have been fine in the past even though I forgot how I use to do them. The quality has always been fine. 30-45 minute show I would set the size to about 200-250 and it would look just same as DVD.

I know you guys will disagree and tell me that my problem is playing bad quality encodes on my HDTV is why it looks bad but like I said. autogk isn't tolerable on the HDTV but the vdubmod encode is for some reason and if you say autogk uses it too then I'm not sure what happens different during the encoding process between the two programs.

Xvid MPEG-4 Video Codec v1.3.2

Not sure how to check the version autogk is using if it's not the one I installed. and, I don't think I've ever tried using a preview option in autogk. is it hidden like the advanced audio settings or other options?

Thanks for the input you guys. I really enjoy learning about this stuff

[hello_hello]

The version of Xvid which AutoGK installs is 1.2.1 so if you want to continue using it, I'd uninstall Xvid and re-install AutoGK while letting it install Xvid itself. I'm pretty sure you can only have one version of Xvid installed at a time, so if you've installed a newer version, or even a codec pack such as K-Lite which I think also includes the Xvid encoder, you'll probably need to go back to the AutoGK version.

If you're not seeing a difference when playing encodes on the PC then I'd say the problem isn't due to the encoder as such. Some hardware players can tend to be fussy when it comes to Xvid/AVIs, even if they'll play pretty much any x264 encoded MKV or MP4 you throw at them. Which takes me back to encoder settings and the possibility of AutoGK not using the settings it should be. If you're using pretty much the Xvid defaults yourself, you shouldn't have any issues, but AutoGK might use a custom Xvid matrix when encoding... which to be honest I'd have thought wouldn't bother newer players, but I'm not sure I can think of another likely cause off the top of my head. Aside from the wrong version of Xvid being used by AutoGK, of course.

After you re-install AutoGK, use CTRL+F9 to go into it's hidden options and make sure "enable standalone support" is checked and select the ESS option. That'll ensure AutoGK will produce an "anything will play it" AVI. I'd be interested to find out if the problem then goes away with the correct version of Xvid installed. As I said, I don't encode using AutoGK much myself any more, but for some reason every now and then one of the Bluray players or TVs in the house decides not to get along with a particular MKV file, so in order to allow someone to watch the video I've sometimes used AutoGK to re-encode it, and the Bluray players/TVs are quite happy with that, even if I encode at 1080p (using AutoGK to re-encode MKVs is a whole other story I won't go into now, but it can be done). I've always used the ESS compatibility option, partly to keep old AVI DVD players happy, and partly because it stops AutoGK from using a custom Xvid matrix. I prefer the standard matrix as I don't try to squish the video to any particular file size, but I guess that's another story too. Ultimately though, there's no guarantee any of AutoGK's options will work as they should if it's using a version of Xvid other than the one it installs itself.

The preview button is next to the Advanced Settings button below the subtitle section. If you use it after loading a video to encode and the preview looks normal then it's logically got to be the encoding causing the pixelation, and unless someone else has a more clever idea, logically the culprit there must be the encoder settings, given the AutoGK encoded video displays fine on a PC but not when using a hardware player.

[Tedbundy]

Well guys I'm back. Hope you guys enjoyed valentines with your loves.

@hello, I seen the preview option right when I opened autogk so I guess I've always knew it was there but forgot since it'd been awhile since I used it. Here are two logs from autogk and both were not as good as the vdubmod one. Same movie.

I've included two with a few different settings to see if there were any difference and both still were not that good

[manono]

Thanks for the logs.

For Dawn Of The Dead:

[2/13/2013 10:22:31 PM] [2/13/2013 10:04:10 PM] Custom resolution settings: fixed width of 640 pixels
[2/13/2013 11:02:43 PM] Expected quality of first pass size: 33.31%

By forcing a width of 640 you crippled AutoGK and returned a 33.31% quality. That's a very low figure and I seriously doubt the settings you used in VDubMod were similar if, as you say, the VDubMod result was any better. AutoGK also uses VDubMod and I don't see how using VDubMod by itself can result in a better quality encode.

For Dawn2:

[2/14/2013 3:42:30 PM] Credits quality percentage: 20

You're not complaining about the credits quality, are you, as you gave them a very low quality. That can be useful if you don't care about the credits as the saved bits go to improve the quality of the main movie.

[2/14/2013 3:42:30 PM] Using cartoon mode.

Don't know why you chose to use Cartoon Mode as this is a live action film.

[2/14/2013 3:45:45 PM] Using softer resizer.
[2/14/2013 3:45:45 PM] Chosen resolution is: 560x224 ( AR: 2.50 )
[2/14/2013 3:45:45 PM] Predicted comptest value is: 59.08%
.
.
[2/14/2013 4:12:50 PM] Expected quality of first pass size: 55.09%

55.09% isn't great, but maybe passable. The eventual resolution chosen by AutoGK was 560x224 which is fairly low and when blown-up full screen makes for a sort of blurry video, especially when combined with a somewhat low compressibility figure

If I remember correctly, both of those films are pretty grainy? And if so, AutoGK doesn't have any temporal filters available (except for the very weak RemoveGrain) to cut the grain and improve the compressibility.

My suggestion to you is to learn how to write your own AviSynth scripts so you can add in any necessary filters when encoding to make the movies come out as well as possible. I sure wouldn't do anything directly in VDubMod. Either that or do 1-pass quality-based encodes in AutoGK and let the sizes become as large as they have to. Or switch to a different program so you can encode for x264 which compresses much better than XviD and then you should be able to get pretty good 700MB encodes.

[hello_hello]

Aside from what manono said you didn't specify whether you've ensured the version of Xvid you have installed is the one AutoGK would install itself, because without it, any testing of AutoGK could potentially be a complete waste of time. Logically you're using the same version of Xvid as AutoGK, so if AutoGK's result isn't what it should be the most logical explanation for that is AutoGK can't configure the encoder correctly.......

AutoGK still isn't using a "standalone support" option as I suggested? I didn't see it mentioned in those log files. Do you use a sharper matrix when setting up Xvid yourself? I think without a hardware compatibility setting, forcing a sharper matrix may also be forcing a custom matrix which may explain why the encode looks normal when played on the PC but not so much when using a media player. Whether a modern media player should care or not I don't know, but I can't think of another reason for an apparent PC/media player, quality difference when playing the same encode.
If you didn't force the use of a sharper matrix, I doubt AutoGK would have chosen to use one itself. I'm pretty sure it only does so when the expected quality allows it, but AutoGK was using a softer resizer trying to make the video easier to compress (both times, I think).

I went through a similar thing with someone else a while ago and I can't remember all the details, however if you want to ensure AutoGK is doing what it's supposed to do you need to level the playing field and let it. The wrong Xvid version will very likely cause Xvid to use the wrong Xvid profile, which in turn could disable the use of B frames and limit the bitrate without AutoGK knowing.... and do god knows what else when it comes to other Xvid settings..... unfortunately the log file can't tell you any of that and I've not had a reason to test it extensively myself.

Aside from the correct version of Xvid, leave both the resolution and audio settings on auto, and don't force or enable anything in AutoGK's hidden options, except for maybe the one to adjust subs, the 4:3 aspect ratio option, and for the moment most definitely enable the "standalone support" setting and choose "ESS" to begin with (and of course use it to adjust the copping if need be). Run a couple of comparison encodes again with AutoGK allowed to make all the decisions while using the version of Xvid it expects, and I think you'll find the result will be different. If so, you could try the MTK standalone option next to see if the pixelation problems with the media player return, then maybe disable the standalone option completely and try again etc.... but you'll probably just keep going around in circles unless you start from scratch with AutoGK, so to speak.

[Tedbundy]

Aside from what manono said you didn't specify whether you've ensured the version of Xvid you have installed is the one AutoGK would install itself, because without it, any testing of AutoGK could potentially be a complete waste of time. Logically you're using the same version of Xvid as AutoGK, so if AutoGK's result isn't what it should be the most logical explanation for that is AutoGK can't configure the encoder correctly.......

AutoGK still isn't using a "standalone support" option as I suggested? I didn't see it mentioned in those log files. Do you use a sharper matrix when setting up Xvid yourself? I think without a hardware compatibility setting, forcing a sharper matrix may also be forcing a custom matrix which may explain why the encode looks normal when played on the PC but not so much when using a media player. Whether a modern media player should care or not I don't know, but I can't think of another reason for an apparent PC/media player, quality difference when playing the same encode.
If you didn't force the use of a sharper matrix, I doubt AutoGK would have chosen to use one itself. I'm pretty sure it only does so when the expected quality allows it, but AutoGK was using a softer resizer trying to make the video easier to compress (both times, I think).

I went through a similar thing with someone else a while ago and I can't remember all the details, however if you want to ensure AutoGK is doing what it's supposed to do you need to level the playing field and let it. The wrong Xvid version will very likely cause Xvid to use the wrong Xvid profile, which in turn could disable the use of B frames and limit the bitrate without AutoGK knowing.... and do god knows what else when it comes to other Xvid settings..... unfortunately the log file can't tell you any of that and I've not had a reason to test it extensively myself.

Aside from the correct version of Xvid, leave both the resolution and audio settings on auto, and don't force or enable anything in AutoGK's hidden options, except for maybe the one to adjust subs, the 4:3 aspect ratio option, and for the moment most definitely enable the "standalone support" setting and choose "ESS" to begin with (and of course use it to adjust the copping if need be). Run a couple of comparison encodes again with AutoGK allowed to make all the decisions while using the version of Xvid it expects, and I think you'll find the result will be different. If so, you could try the MTK standalone option next to see if the pixelation problems with the media player return, then maybe disable the standalone option completely and try again etc.... but you'll probably just keep going around in circles unless you start from scratch with AutoGK, so to speak.

Hey thanks again. I completely forgot about the xvid thing and about the standalone option I left it alone to show you guys what I normally do when I set up autogk so that you can tell what I am doing wrong and we could go from there. cartoon mode must've been a mistake since I wasn't trying to encode a cartoon and I knew that lol. That's the option I use to use when encoding anime. Obviously not needed this time around. I will set up a few other encodes and try to post back tomorrow. Thanks guys and take care

[Tedbundy]

Just wanted to give you a follow up reply.

@hello - I uninstalled xvid and autogk like you suggested and followed pretty much everything and you were right. I am very pleased with the end result and it came out to be 701MB.

I would like to leave this as open so in case I have any future issues I can come back and reply here again. I will post a log if you guys would like just let me know soon before I delete it.

I'd like to thank both of you guys very much!

Earlier you mentioned about encoding in x264 - would that be in avi? Can you provide a link to the programs I need and some basic tutorials to help me start learning on that road. Thanks!

[manono]

x264/H264 can be in AVI but it's usually MP4 or MKV. I use AviSynth scripts in XviD4PSP but hello_hello is probably more knowledgeable about the best all-in-one programs to use. StaxRip and VidCoder come to mind. Both have some guides linked on their pages.

[hello_hello]

I'm glad AutoGK is working properly now.

I haven't used a huge number of x264 encoder GUIs. VidCoder seems quite popular and isn't too hard to use. I'll confess StaxRip and myself have never quite got along. RipBot264 or TX264 would probably be worth a look at for ease of use. I mostly use MeGUI myself but I'd probably not recommend it unless you're prepared to spend a bit of time getting to understand how it works as it has a bit of a learning curve.

Unfortunately there's not really an x264 equivelant of AutoGK.... a program which lets you pick a file size and runs a compression test, then does all the necessary adjusting for you. In fact the ability to pick a file size seems to becoming less common these days as most people use x264's quality encoding mode instead.