What am i doing wrong (VHS Restoration)

[Asesinato]

Ive got a 3 hour wedding video that i have capture with a Wintv PVR-500 and now i have it in ts file...

I try to use add filters that ive heard about in there, but the result after i burned it to dvd var very very bad... When people moved fast aaround it shimered arround them and the quality is almost worse then before..

Ive added some clips from diffenrent times in the vid, and a screen of the filters i used in virtualdub... Ive save it to lagathit avi from virtualdub, and convertet it to dvd using sony vegas, (i split the file up in 2 dvds to maintain good bitrate)
But as i wrote, NOT good

Hopefully somebody can se what im doing wrong...

[DB83]

I am trying to get my head around this one.

You used Wintv to capture so you had, assumedly, an mpeg2 ts file ?
Then you imported that in to vdub, filtered it, then exported that as lagarith before converting AGAIN to mpeg2 for the dvd.?

Nothing has been gained by exporting as lagarith from a compressed source.

Why not simply import the ts in to Vegas, edit from there and export direct to mpeg2/dvd ?

I do not understand these input/output values as I would have thought that the original capture was 720*576 PAL.

Also that shoulf have been interlaced and, despite your filtering, the final clip is still interlaced.

So correct me if my assumptions are wrong and we can take it from there.

[Asesinato]

Yes i have an mpeg ts file.
But i would like to filter it in virtualdub, therefor i made a avs file that allowed my to open the ts in virtualdub, then i save in lagarith and convertet it in vegas...

[Asesinato]

BTW the clips ive uploaded here are the capture file, those hasnt been editet... the file i have run thought virtual and vegas has been deletet again it was crap

[mammo1789]

It was said 100 times in the other 3 posts for the same video ( you should keep the questions on the same subject not open new tread every time ), direct capturing in mpeg2 is not recommended if you plan to filer later on in vdub or avisynth you will not gain anything from going from lossy to losless codec that's why i told you to recapture but you simple don't listen.
Another problem with your video is that it has bad tbc errors which confuse the mpeg (dvd )encoder ( sony vegas uses dumb ed mainconcept encoder there a lot better ones including the mainconcept one reference).

And the filters that you are using in vdub are all bad especially for your video you will not solve anything with them, only the color correction from master was usable

[aedipuss]

captured from what? a single vhs tape?

[Asesinato]

Mammo > This is another vhs cap... The other really old vid, is final and encoded, that is finish
mammo, i cant cap in anything els then mpeg??? The Wintv PVR-500 i can only make work in Wintv applikation, and it caps in mpeg2.... i dont know how to cap in any other format in wintv???

aedipuss > Yes a single vhs tape, old wedding movie

[mammo1789]

Mammo > This is another vhs cap... The other really old vid, is final and encoded, that is finish

Sorry i didn't notice I'm on another pc right now so i didn't opened the files ( i cant)
I don't get the logic in using this filters i don't know who told you to stack them like that, why do deinterlace then reinterlace if you plan to go to dvd never deinterlace interlace source for dvd it should stay interlaced. By going from mpeg2 ts to vdub you go from yuv to rgb and yuv (actually yv12 again) no sense at all better use filters for denoising in avisynth than just put that mpeg (dv2) file in some authoring program ( for making dvd ) and you are done

[aedipuss]

you're in denmark? with pal tv system? shouldn't the cap be in a pal format? like 720x576 for 4:3 mpeg-2.

[DB83]

But like I said, rather than do all these conversions which my friend has told you are not good, just import your ts file in to Vegas as filter/edit from there.

[mammo1789]

Clean and simple only 3 filters nothing more and much better

[mammo1789]

Are you using the drivers from the cd that came with the card try the hauppage web page fro newer version of the driver and wintv

[Asesinato]

DB83
But you have so many more filter options in virtualdub???


Mammo > That looks nice... But that neat filter is one you need to buy isnt it??? I can only find a trial version of it
Mammo> Do you know if there is other ways to capture then wintv for the pvr-500 card???

[Asesinato]

I have newest driver and wintv from hauppauge site

[mammo1789]

excorsist ?! no go you don't have ghost in the image at all and all others big no go, noise you may try neat video has demo version and is the "best" ( I know guys there is no best thing don't kill me ) color correction can be better done in sony vegas but it need some knowledge

[DB83]

There is a saying "Two many cooks spoil the broth" or translated to "Two many filters and you get lost with which ones to use"

I am not so sure about my friend's corrections as some colours now look a little un-naturel then then I do not know the original colours.

I have a Wintv myself - not the one you use - but I can make various corrrections AT THE CAPTURE STAGE which should be even better than software.

If you got Vegas then try it. You know how it should look and there are more than enough filters there to confuse you without all these colour space conversions etc which do not help. And my friend has already demonstrted that you do not need to do these conversions if you can use avisynth.

[mammo1789]

Look at the left mans tie it has waves a lot and it has stair steps ( that is tbc errors i guess ).

Mammo> Do you know if there is other ways to capture then wintv for the pvr-500 card???

I'm trying to help you here as i see it has hardware mpeg2 on the card ( is it possible to capture uncompressed? ) I'm not sure i never use hardware based mpeg2 cards i use dvd recorders for real time dvd recording or tv cards with losless compression for filtering bad videos.

But i think sanlyn and jagabo and LS know something how to make hardware based card to capture losless in vdub by using graph editor I guess you have to ask them for that

Yes about the colors msu old color restoration filter used here ( i used it because to just show him what can be done if used properly ) it has tendency to over process colors and make them more hard ( wich i also dont like and don't use and can some times lead to psychedelic colors )

[mammo1789]

I have a Wintv myself - not the one you use - but I can make various corrrections AT THE CAPTURE STAGE which should be even better than software.

That is also true if i see correctly this card has hardware noise reduction also Philips new chip maybe im not sure, i can find very little information about this card ( hauppage makes good cards by the way)

[Asesinato]

As fair as i can read, then virtualvcr can be used by PVR-500 and that can cap in avi lagarith compression, so maybe i should try and cap in that....?

[mammo1789]

As fair as i can read, then virtualvcr can be used by PVR-500 and that can cap in avi lagarith compression, so maybe i should try and cap in that....?

of course

[Asesinato]

That acobw filter where did you get that ?? Cant find it anywhere

[Asesinato]

Ill try and setup the virtualvcr and capture in that, hopefull that will work and then give better captures to work with

[mammo1789]

Google buddy just 2 sec more
http://acobw.narod.ru/

it is automatic correction of white balance

[sanlyn]

Same problems as before: poor capture methopds and poor tape playback, and -- please, one and all -- try your best to refrain from recommending the MSU special effects filter or ANY kind of so-called auto white balance filter. They are inappropriate for this wedding video. The adjusted colors, midtones, and overall levels look wrecked. The original video .ts files 1, 2, and 3 have color that is not that far from correct to begin with.

If capturing to AVi is out of the question, then you can repair some of the damage using a few tricks in Avisynth; first, learn to use DGIndex and MPEG2Source. There are some Avisynth smoothers and anti-comb filters that can make these clips look smoother. SOme color and levels cleanup and some of the horrble artifacts can be cleaned up -- but Avisynth is required for this fix; very little of it can be done in VirtualDuib.

Try looking through at least one or two of the hundreds of free tutorials on the 'net that explain how to determine and set white points, black points, and midpoint levels. Learn to use histograms. Remove all MSU special-effects filters and auto-white plugins from your VirtualDub plugins folder; instead, learn to work with real color correction controls. As I said earlier, the color here isn't so bad that you need to wreck it to make it look better.

What I do see is some serious color "stain" (mostly yellow) that dips in and out in some of the clips.

Did I read some info correctly somewhere, but don't you have a copy of Vegas? Is that Vegas Pro?

I notice in the earlier list of filters that you applied sharpening, then followed it with a denoiser. That's exactly the reverse of the way those two operations are normally performed; sharpening noise before trying to remove the noise is self-defeating.

Sorry, I don't mean to imply you're not trying, but I'd have to say: in answer to your original question, "what am I doing wrong?" Well,.....just about everything, unfortunately. This just catches me at a bad time. I remember my first video project (when I put my freshly home-made very first DVD into my player, the player spit it right back at me). So I'll try to offer something more constructive in the morning, or I'm sure other members will help with some good points.

[mammo1789]

-- please, one and all -- try your best to refrain from recommending the MSU special effects filter or ANY kind of so-called auto white balance filter. They are inappropriate for this wedding video.

If you thought about me I didn't recommend any of that MSU color filters ( and on other tread i told him to do it manually first in avisynth and if better only there to avoid colorspace conv , levels and colors like your advise for my bad looking project ) on contrary i sad to him many times that hi should past them and use Sony Vegas for better color correction ( my point was to show him that with just few i saw that he loves those MSU filters and auto color correctional 5 sec done filters so that i did so he can get that over processed fake color ( and i sad it before ) result.

I hope he doesn't get me to seriously, but i must say that asking on this forum is good thing ( i done it million times ) but it is wise to some times listen of the advice given and try them, so to see the result and tweak them and ( more importantly ) do it step by step, so to understand what is done and why, and how that can help the guy that is asking or the people with similar problem in the future that can use those tips .
No hard feelings

[DB83]

I will always bow to the better knowledge of others but I would have thought that a hardware mpeg encoder such as in this hauppuage will do just that ie encode as mpeg2 and nothing else. But if you really can use 3rd party softare to capture then surely the result will be a transcoding from the original mpeg2 that the card is capturing so again IMHO no real gain from what you are already working with.

The hauppuage that I have is a software encoder so that does give me all sorts of codec options.

What options actually exist at capture time with the WinTv software ? And echoing what I previously said, and others as well, if you have Vegas then you really should try that. It is not a 2-cent program.

[themaster1]

graphedit comes to mind to capture
source here https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326877-Capture-settings-with-GraphEdit-GraphStudio?...ht=graphstudio

if it's hw encoding there is no point though

[sanlyn]

My apologies, friends, for my rude approach earlier. The O.P. is limited to an mpeg2-only capture device, so be it. I'm being a cranky old fuddy-dud about the filters used, but I do see many mistakes that make the task more difficult. Anyone can use whatever filters they want. The idea is to denoise and repair first, then work with image levels and color. Chaining denoisers and color filters in VirtualDuib in random, mixed sequence is self defeating and leads to unpredictable results -- such as the wedding shot of the man whose suit is grayish-brown in the original video but a dull solid blue in the corrected version, with obvious posterizing effects.

Jumping back and forth in colorspace is done frequently, but usually not done correctly.. And why people want to deinterlace original interlaced video for output to DVD is beyond me, as the resulting DVD won't play correctly on TV. I'd work the colorspace this way: the original video is YV12, top field first, interlaced. Run Avisynth repair and correction in YV12, then go to RGB for the rest ()if necessary), bur convert to RGB in Avisynth because Virtu8alDub doesn't handle interlaced YV12 > RGB color correctly.

I'll see if I can come up with a few scripts.

[lordsmurf]

The fold/unfold doesn't work properly anyway.
You may as well just deinterlace with QTGMC if the filter only works in progressive domain.
The fold/unfold or weave/unweave screws up interlacing.

[sanlyn]

True, lordsmurf. The O.P.apparently has no intention (or no way) of using some kind of tbc on this capture, so I'm playing with QTGMC now, will try yadif as well, and denoise using either of those. Slow stuff. Will post during the day (if the wife will stop making me do chores!!!).

Frankly I don't mind using NeatVideo after some prep denoising, but it's just something else for asesinato to buy and has a learning curve anyway. Hopefully jagabo or one of the other pro's will jump in, as they know frame repair better than I do, and those scripts take a little time to draw up.

Sorry for any delays today, but weekends at my house are total chaos.