Turning subs off by default

[Instant Martian]

Hi guys!
I'd need a little help in turning subtitles off by default on a DVD.
I know there's the 2COOL's guide but in my case there is already a SetSTN command.
What's the procedure in this case?
Here it is a screencap of PgcEdit:

[tinker]

1) Copy 2nd line command and "paste after" . You get third line with the same command as shown in picture #1.

2) Double Click on 2nd line command as highlighted in picture #1, you get editor box as shown in pic #2.

3) Change Subpicture setting as shown in pic#3 and click OK button. You will get changed command on line 2 as shown .

4) Click on line 3 and adjust settings as shown in pic#4, click OK button.

Done, Save DVD
You can still choose subtitles using remount control's subtitle button.

[Instant Martian]

Thank you very much.
I'll try asap and let you know.

[tinker]

OK, waiting for answer

[Instant Martian]

Tinker, your guide seems to work.
Just another thing.
The DVD has 3 audio tracks (in this order):
- English
- Italian
- Spanish
The default is English.
How do I make Italian the default?

[tinker]

You can change a command as shown in a picture.
Mind you this way it will always start with Italian even if you change a language in Language menu. You can always change it later with remount. But DVD has to play first.
If you want to keep a Language menu, since Audio is set with GPRM(1), I would need to know where it gets
instruction for GPRM(1)

[Instant Martian]

Doesn't matter.
I decided to leave things as they are, I watch movies in English most of the times anyway.
Thanks.

[tinker]

OK
You are welcome.

[Instant Martian]

Here it is a more tricky case:

pre-commands:
[00 A1 00 06 00 01 00 15] 1 if ( gprm(6) == 1 ) then { Goto line 21 }
[00 A1 00 05 00 01 00 16] 2 if ( gprm(5) == 1 ) then { Goto line 22 }
[61 00 00 05 00 92 00 00] 3 Set gprm(5) =(mov) sprm(18:Preferred sub-picture language)
[71 00 00 03 00 00 00 00] 4 Set gprm(3) =(mov) 0
[71 A0 05 03 00 01 64 65] 5 if ( gprm(5) == 25701 ("de") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 1 }
[71 A0 05 03 00 02 66 72] 6 if ( gprm(5) == 26226 ("fr") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 2 }
[71 A0 05 03 00 03 69 74] 7 if ( gprm(5) == 26996 ("it") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 3 }
[71 A0 05 03 00 04 73 76] 8 if ( gprm(5) == 29558 ("sv") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 4 }
[71 A0 05 03 00 05 6E 6C] 9 if ( gprm(5) == 28268 ("nl") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 5 }
[71 A0 05 03 00 06 70 74] 10 if ( gprm(5) == 28788 ("pt") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 6 }
[41 00 00 00 83 00 00 00] 11 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = gprm(3)
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 16] 12 Goto line 22
[71 00 00 05 00 02 00 00] 13 Set gprm(5) =(mov) 2
[00 A1 00 05 00 02 00 11] 14 if ( gprm(5) == 2 ) then { Goto line 17 }
[00 A1 00 05 00 04 00 11] 15 if ( gprm(5) == 4 ) then { Goto line 17 }
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 16] 16 Goto line 22
[61 00 00 05 00 82 00 00] 17 Set gprm(5) =(mov) sprm(2:Sub-picture stream number)
[7A 00 00 05 00 40 00 00] 18 Set gprm(5) |=(or) 64
[41 00 00 00 85 00 00 00] 19 (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = gprm(5)
[00 01 00 00 00 00 00 16] 20 Goto line 22
[00 B1 00 0C 00 01 00 1D] 21 if ( gprm(12) != 1 ) then { Goto line 29 }
[00 A1 00 04 00 01 00 1D] 22 if ( gprm(4) == 1 ) then { Goto line 29 }
[61 00 00 04 00 90 00 00] 23 Set gprm(4) =(mov) sprm(16:Preferred audio language)
[71 00 00 03 00 00 00 00] 24 Set gprm(3) =(mov) 0
[71 A0 04 03 00 01 64 65] 25 if ( gprm(4) == 25701 ("de") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 1 }
[71 A0 04 03 00 02 66 72] 26 if ( gprm(4) == 26226 ("fr") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 2 }
[71 A0 04 03 00 03 69 74] 27 if ( gprm(4) == 26996 ("it") ) then { Set gprm(3) =(mov) 3 }
[41 00 00 83 00 00 00 00] 28 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = gprm(3)
[71 00 00 03 00 00 00 00] 29 Set gprm(3) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 04 00 00 00 00] 30 Set gprm(4) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 05 00 00 00 00] 31 Set gprm(5) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 06 00 01 00 00] 32 Set gprm(6) =(mov) 1
[71 00 00 07 00 01 00 00] 33 Set gprm(7) =(mov) 1
[71 00 00 08 00 00 00 00] 34 Set gprm(8) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 0B 00 00 00 00] 35 Set gprm(11) =(mov) 0

post commands:
[71 00 00 07 00 00 00 00] 1 Set gprm(7) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 0B 00 00 00 00] 2 Set gprm(11) =(mov) 0
[71 00 00 08 00 00 00 00] 3 Set gprm(8) =(mov) 0
[30 08 00 02 01 C0 00 00] 4 (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 2, resume cell 1

What have I got to do to turn subs off by default?

[tinker]

Line #1 and #2 are important because they decide what subtitles to play. You will have to use trace to see where they get #1 for GPRM4 and 5.

The setup you have will set subtitles according to your DVD setup for preferred subtitle language which is stored in SPRM18(System Register). Line #3 to #11

If you want all subtitles off as default, insert this command between line #28 and #29

(SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 62

From what I can see, line #13 to #20 will never get executed.

One more thing. When you add the command, make sure that all "Goto line" numbers stay the same.

[Instant Martian]

Thanks tinker, I'll try asap and let you know.
Maybe I could have been more specific: it's an episodic DVD with three episodes and the "Play All" button.
There is a main PGC which contains all the episodes as a single video and other PGCs with just one episode (they reuse cells from the main PGC).
The commands I posted are from the main PGC.

[tinker]

The pre command section you posted is fine.
It is designed to set play according to DVD audio language and subtitle language setup,
First two lines, it true, will jump over subtitle setup and go to language setup.
Line #21 and #22, if true, will jump over language setup also and play original language audio and subs if any.

[Instant Martian]

tinker, your guide works, but I still have one question.
When I compress the whole DVD with DVD Shrink I keep only English and Italian audio/subtitles.
The "labels" on the subtitles tracks are wrong (e.g. the player calls "German" the Italian subs).
(Note that I have set DVD Shrink to not remap the enabled streams).
I know that I can fix that in the Domain Streams Attributes of PgcEdit, changing the ISO639 codes.
Is that all or have I to adjust something else?

[tinker]

If the subs are in correct language just their flag is wrong, than changing the flag(code), will do the trick.

[Instant Martian]

There is something strange here.
I checked the language codes and they are correct and if I play the DVD (from the hard disk) the player identifies the subs correctly.
The stand-alone player gives me wrong "labels" instead.

[tinker]

I do not know what DVDShrink does during compression when you remove some subs. I have not used that software for a long, long time.
Loud compressed DVD into PgcEdit and see if a command structure did not change.
Check title by double click on it in PgcEdit to see if the subs are all there, but hidden, or if they were deleted during compression and tracks change a number . If the last is the case you will have to change numbers of GPRM3 to coincide with new structure.

When I compress the whole DVD with DVD Shrink I keep only English and Italian audio/subtitles.The "labels" on the subtitles tracks are wrong (e.g. the player calls "German" the Italian subs).

From this it looks like Italian Subs are on #1 Track, where German subs were before

[Instant Martian]

That's exactly what I've done, I loaded the compressed DVD into PgcEdit to check the Stream Attibutes but everything seems ok.
DVD Shrink can remap the enabled streams (i.e. changes the number) or not, it's a user's choice.
I always don't remap streams so that the buttons in languages/subs menu keep working.
After the compression the audio/subs are in the same "position" as before, the ones I got rid of are disabled and marked as "none" in PgcEdit (the ones I kept are marked by 4 numbers).
They have the right flag and everything works fine on the pc.
For some unknown reason the stand-alone player does not identify the subpictures streams correctly (no problem with the audio streams instead).

[tinker]

Don't know what to say. Could be a player problem. If you can get the DVD played on different player it would by good to see if it acts the same way.
On your player, can you select subtitles using remount control?
What software player are you using?
Did you try to use a TRACE option in PgcEdit to see what is going on?

[Instant Martian]

- I have only one player, no other in the vicinity.
- Yes, I can select the subtitles via remote control. The first stream is identified correctly, the others (3) aren't.
The strange thing is that I have no problem with the audio streams (and I got rid of some of them too).
- PowerDVD
- I don't know exactly what to do.

[tinker]

I found PowerDVD to be about the most complete to check DVD compliant with stand alone player.
To your subs.
From Precommand section it looks like there are seven sub streams on that dvd, Track0 is not listed, because that usually show as a default and most likely set by Line21
Italian track is #3.
If you run trace in PgcEdit and watch SPRM, it should have in SPRM2 number 67, if you choose Italian subs from a menu.
Try that and see what happen.

[Instant Martian]

I don't know if this is exactly what you wanted but I traced to the subtitles menu and selected the Italian subs.
Here it is what I got:

...
******* Playing Program 1, Cell 1 (0:00.12 + infinite pause) (14 buttons)
-> sprm(8:Highlighted button number) = 14336 (0x3800) = button 14
Selected menu button: 14
-- button : (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 3, on ; LinkTailPGC
-> sprm(2:Sub-picture stream number) = 67 (0x0043)
...

[tinker]

OK. It looks like menu selected right subs.
See picture.
Click on Watch, it will expand, select SPRM and run trace all the way till it start to play your title. See if SPRM2 stay at 67.
If that is the case, than your DVD player has a problem reading right stream.

[Instant Martian]

No, it reads 62.

[tinker]

This is a problem.
When I gave you the command to insert into a Precommand, I was under impression that you want all subs to be off by default. That is what it does. Only way to get subs in is to use a remount. If you want still to have an option to select them from the menu, than we will have to change a menu commands where it calls for subs to be off, if there is a button for that. For that I will need full DVD structure to trace it down.

[Instant Martian]

I see.
Sure I wanted the subs to be off but I'd like to have working buttons too.
As a matter of fact I just checked and the buttons on subtitles menu don't work.
The original DVD has 4 audio tracks (including English and Italian) and 10 subtitle tracks (including English1 (normal), English2 (Hearing Impaired), Italian1 (normal) and Italian2 (Hearing Impaired)).
I use DVD Shrink to compress and get rid of what I don't need at the same time.
So I end up with English+Italian (audio) and English1+Italian1+English2+Italian2 (subpictures).
Audio has no problem and the buttons work fine (both on pc and DVD player).
When it comes to subs if I play the DVD (from the HD) via PowerDVD I have no problem whatsoever (exept the non-working buttons), if I use the DVD player I have non-working buttons (obviously), wrong names (English (correct), German (wrong), French (wrong), Italian (correct)) and another thing I didn't notice before.
If I select (via remote) the subs on the left, the player actually displays the subs on the right:
English = English
German = Italian
French = Italian
Italian = Italian

So what?
Do I follow this post of yours and send you the full DVD?

[tinker]

Yes, do that.
Waiting for a link

[r0lZ]

I do not know what DVDShrink does during compression when you remove some subs. I have not used that software for a long, long time.

It is well known that some players have problems when accessing or playing the audio or subtitle tracks that are after a "gap" left when you have removed a track (with DVDShrink or any other program: DVDShrink is not the culprit.) That players assume that all tracks are correctly referenced in Domain Track Attributes and in the corresponding PGCs.

With some players, the user cannot select the track if there is a gap before it. For example, if subpic #0 is currently selected and the user tries to select the next subpic with the remote, but the next subpic is #2, after a gap at position #1, the player will refuse to change the subpic or hang when subpic #1 (non-existent) is selected. (As far as I know, it is still possible to select subpic #2 with a VM command, so usually the subpic menu continues to work fine.)

It is also possible that the player gets confused by the order of the subpics. In my example of a gap at position #1, it considers subpic #2 as being subpic #1, subpic #3 as #2, etc. Apparently, it's what is happening here.

It is a good thing that DVDShrink has an option to remap the stream numbers, as when that option is enabled, there is no problem any more. But using that option is dangerous if there are indirect SetSTN commands in the DVD. When the option is enabled, DVDShrink fixes the direct SetSTN commands so that they will still select the right streams. For example, it changes SetSTN subpic #2, on to SetSTN subpic #1, on, and it changes SetSTN subpic #1, on to a blank SetSTN command (that does nothing). Unfortunately, DVDShrink is unable to fix the indirect SetSTN commands (that use a GPRM to set the current subpic), as, of course, that would require to analyze the whole DVD to find where and how the GPRM is initialized. It's why I wrote the function "Check Streams Remapping safety" available in the DVDShrink plugin for PgcEdit. That function checks if there are indirect SetSTN commands in the DVD. If it's not the case, it is highly recommended to enable the "Logical remapping of enabled streams" option of DVDShrink. When it's the case, it is usually better to disable that option. To fix the problem later in PgcEdit, you can use the "Delete" checkboxes in Domain Track Attributes, and fix the indirect SetSTN commands manually. Unfortunately, that's not always easy.

[Instant Martian]

It is also possible that the player gets confused by the order of the subpics. In my example of a gap at position #1, it considers subpic #2 as being subpic #1, subpic #3 as #2, etc. Apparently, it's what is happening here.

This is equal to DVD Shrink remapping the streams.
I usually don't remap because it messes up the buttons in the language/subtitle menu.
But in this specific case it's useless since I added a command to set subtitles off and the buttons don't work anyway.
My old player (I don't even recall its obscure brand) had no problem with "gaps" (other problems but not this one), contrariwise to the player I have now (Pioneer).

If it's not the case, it is highly recommended to enable the "Logical remapping of enabled streams" option of DVDShrink.

But I would lose the possibility of using the buttons, wouldn't I?
I mean, I'll be able to select the streams only via remote control.

[tinker]

But in this specific case it's useless since I added a command to set subtitles off and the buttons don't work anyway.

I am not sure if you are referring to the old file or new one I send you.
The old one had a command in a Precommand of the Title and that override any previous commands. As I mentioned later, you can get subs back with a remount only .
Second file should be OK. I ran trace in PgcEdit and it worked fine with all the buttons. Not sure how it will behave after shrinking, because as r0IZ mention, there is more to it how players interpret removal of certain sections.

[Instant Martian]

@tinker:
you got PM.

I am not sure if you are referring to the old file or new one I send you.

Uhm... did you send me a file?