NTSC (29.97) to PAL in order to get rid of ghost effect

[Talayero]

Hi,

I have a French movie that originally was PAL, obviously, but the DVD edition is from USA and they have converted it to NTSC 29.97 interlaced.

I 'm watching the DVD in a PAL country and I can appreciate some ghost effect, not very disturbing, but anyway I would like to get rid of it.

I'm familiarized with NTSC to PAL conversion when the NTSC is 23.976. I did several conversions a couple of years ago, and if I remember well I used to use CCE, DGPulldown and an Avisynth script to resize it.

Now, I know that with 29.97fps the conversion is a bit more complicated, but may be it's not so when the original is a PAL movie that has been converted to NTSC.

I have read some posts in the VideoHelp Forum but I wasn't able to find a way to do the conversion. Some say it's better to convert from 29.97 to 23.976 (if possible) and then convert to 25.

Anyway I would appreciate very much some help, and as much detailed as possible, please, because I know how to use Avisynth but I'm not an expert at all at writing scripts.

Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

You'll probably want to use Yadif() and SRestore() to get a 25 fps result. But you'll have to post a short sample (with clear motion) to be sure.

[Talayero]

Thank you for answering.
I hope the fragment I uploaded will be enough

[poisondeathray]

The fragment you uploaded was converted in vdubmod (uncompressed) and wrapped in .avi, but renamed to .m2v ; in the future you could use dgindex to cut a section which was unprocessed

As per jagabo's suggestion, srestore should work fine

If you used the original .d2v the script might look like this (I actually used NNEDI2 to bob-deinterlace, but you can use any bobber you want)

MPEG2Source("video.d2v")
Yadif(mode=1,order=1)
Srestore(frate=25)

No deblender will be perfect, but they can certainly improve the blends

[jagabo]

That video looks a lot worse than the usual partial field blended PAL to NTSC conversion. I don't think you'll be able to clean it much. But here what I tried with AviSynth:

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SRestore.avs")

AviSource("Fragment.avi") #it was an uncompressed RGB file, not an mpeg stream
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=25)

It's too short to say for sure of 25 fps was right. You should verify with a longer sequence.

Poisondeathray beat me. But I had to go rescue a lost dog between the time I started and finished my reply. LOL

[Talayero]

Sorry about the fragment demuxed with Virtualdub.
I attache I knew one, a bit longer, just in case you can see it better.

[Talayero]

Well, this is the script I wrote after reading some other posts about it.

I wonder if it is totally or partially wrong:

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MT_MaskTools_26.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\TIVTC.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Average.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\RemoveGrain.dll")
Loadplugin ("C:\dgdecode.dll")
Import("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SRestore.avs")
MPEG2Source("chaos.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
Yadif(mode=1,order=1)
Srestore(frate=25)

[Talayero]

Sorry for asking so many things:

I loaded the script in CCE v 2.70 but I'm not sure how to configure it.

MPEG 2 for DVD?
1-pass VBR and then I do a second 1
Frame rate?
Pulldown?
Preprocess?
Advanced settings: Output top field first stream?

And I don't know either how to convert the audio.

Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

You don't really need the AssumeTFF() and ConvertToYUY2() in that script. 25 fps does appear to be correct. I didn't see any duplicate or skipped frames when stepping through the results.

As for MPEG settings, yes, use MPEG 2 for DVD, 25 fps, no pulldown (you now have progressive PAL footage), field order doesn't matter with progressive video, no preprocessing necessary. Whether you do single or multiple passes is up to you and whether you want an exact file size (eg. 4.3 GB for a DVD).

[Talayero]

Thank you.
I've just encoded it with CCE and everything went perfect.

What software and settings are needed now to convert the audio?
And for the subtitles?

[Gavino]

I wonder if it is totally or partially wrong:
...
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MT_MaskTools_26.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\TIVTC.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Average.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\RemoveGrain.dll")
...

Apart from the things jagabo already mentioned, these LoadPlugin calls are unnecessary since plugins in the standard folder are loaded automatically. Also you should be using MT_MaskTools_25.dll unless you are running the (still experimental) version 2.6 of Avisynth.

[Talayero]

Also you should be using MT_MaskTools_25.dll unless you are running the (still experimental) version 2.6 of Avisynth.

Well, then I should encode it again using the MT_MaskTools_25.dll
And do you know how to convert the audio and subtitles, please?

[manono]

If it looks OK, I wouldn't reencode just to switch MT_Masktools versions. However, you could switch versions by editing the AVS, load the ECL, and run another pass. Not much time will be lost.

As for the subs, it depends on the authoring program you're using and the sub format(s) it supports. I always use Muxman and make SST subs for it. I start with SSA subs and convert to SST using MaestroSBT. But there are a ton of sub formats and a ton of authoring programs, so more information is needed.

For audio, assuming you also want to get rid of the PAL speedup, I first convert to PCM WAV audio using one of the presets in BeSweet, followed by an encode to AC3 audio. Others do the whole thing in one step using eac3to.

[Talayero]

Well, I tried to convert the audio but I did something wrong, because it is out of sync.

I converted to wav the AC3 that was in the original disc NTSC 29.97. Then I used Besweet to make this wav to fit the video I converted from 29.97 to PAL 25. So I used the Besweet preset 23.976 to 25.000, because I thought the original 29.97 was not real and also knew that if I applied the preset 29.97 to 25.000, the sound would be distorted. Anyway, the 23.976 to 25.000 preset gave an out of sync audio.

As for the subs I still didn't try to convert them. I have them in sup format after demuxing them with pgcdemux. Now I would like to use Muxman to remux them. The problem is I'm not sure how to convert the subs fps from the NTSC 29.97 to the PAL 25 I got after the with CCE.

[manono]

Then I used Besweet to make this wav to fit the video I converted from 29.97 to PAL 25.

I apologize. I thought you were changing the framerate to 23.976fps after unblending it. If you kept it at 25fps then there's no need to stretch the audio. The video remains the same length. You can use the same AC3 audio as originally.

Same with the subs. Unless you change the length of the video (as with an additional AssumeFPS(23.976) line after the unblending), the same subs can be used unchanged.

Again, I apologize for wasting your time. If I had read more carefully I would have realized that nowhere did you mention changing the length of the movie. Me, I always change the length and I just assumed you were doing the same. But I'm in NTSC land and you're not.

[Talayero]

No need to apologize. Thank you a lot for all your explanations. Now I see that original audio and subs fit perfectly.

I have quite a few NTSC discs with European movies that I would like to fix, by converting them to PAL. I already encoded the next one, but I have a problem with a black bar on the bottom of the encoded image. I attach a fragment of the original movie and another one of the encoded by me using this script:

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Loadplugin ("d:\dgdecode.dll")
Import("C:\Archivos de Programa\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\SRestore.avsi")
MPEG2Source("GIORNI.d2v")
Yadif(mode=1,order=1)
Srestore(frate=25)

Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

You need to convert to PAL DVD frame size. Resize to 720x576 at the end of your script.

[Talayero]

Thank you. I added resize and now it's OK.
But I don't understand why I didn't need to add it to that other movie, the one I encoded first and that was the origin of this thread. It also was NTSC and 16:9. I did this one without resizing it and the image was OK: no black bar at the bottom

[Talayero]

Hi,

I was about to fix another of my movies with ghost effect. I thought it was also NTSC, but to my surprise is PAL.
I don't know how a PAL film can have this botched interlaced image, when the movie is a well known Italian film that in origin is also PAL. May be was filmed in video and they did a botched transfer.

I'm very interested in fixing that image and would appreciate very much if someone could give me a hint about what script I could use to fix it with CCE.

I attach a fragment.

Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

That video simply has the fields paired out of phase. If the whole movie is like this you can fix it with:

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()
Trim(1,0)
Weave()

If the video switches between in-phase and out-of-phase sections you can use TFM()

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF()
TFM()

Xvid/AVI after TFM():

[Talayero]

Thank you very much! It's amazing. There seems to be a solution for any image problem.

I fixed the whole movie using the second script. The first script fixed some scenes, but botched another ones, so I deduced that video switched between in-phase and out-of-phase sections, as you said.

I can't help finding movies of mine with severe problems of image. I attach another one (a different sort of genre, no art-house). It's NTSC filmed in video 29.97. I don't know if it's possible to fix it. May be I don't need to convert it to PAL, although I live in a PAL country (Spain). I mean, I can see perfectly NTSC movies in my HTPC, but not this kind with those interlacing artifacts.

Thank you in advance if someone could help me with this one. I searched the forum for a solution, before asking, but I couldn't identify any appropriate fix. I wish I could myself analyse the kind of interlacing, and so I might try to find out the script I need.

[manono]

That one's just standard hard telecine and just needs a standard IVTC:

TFM().TDecimate()

When advancing a frame at a time you see 3 progressive frames and 2 interlaced frames in every 5 frame sequence, it's hard telecine (the telecine encoded into the video).

[Talayero]

Thank you very much.
Sorry for asking questions that are so simple, but I have some doubts about the CCE settings.

I guess I have to keep the same frame rate, 29.97, because it's 100% video, and not to tick deinterlacing, but I'm not sure about Inv 3:2 pulldown.

And this is the script I wrote:
Loadplugin ("c:\dgdecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("movie.d2v")
TFM()
TDecimate()

[jagabo]

After TFM().TDecimate() you have progressive frames at 23.976 fps. Encode progressive with 3:2 pulldown flags if you want DVD compatible result.

[Talayero]

Thank you.

So, the d2v I create with DGIndex, do I have to do it using Honor Pulldown Flags or Forced Film?
And I guess I'll have to convert the audio from 29.97 to 23.976.

[jagabo]

Use honor Pulldown Flags because the source is hard telecined. You don't have to change the audio length. The running time of the movie doesn't change when you IVTC.

[Talayero]

Thank you for the script to fix hard telecined movies. I have already used it several times to fix some DVDs. I have also learned to identify the pattern: 3 progressive frames and 2 interlaced frames.

Now I have another NTSC film that DGIndex says is Film progressive, but when I play it, the image it's not totally clear.
The source is a French movie filmed in video, I think, so they have botched something making the DVD or I don't know why the image has that issue.

I have ripped a fragment with DGIndex, using Forced film. I couldn't identify any pattern of pregressive interlaced frames.

Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

Extract a clip from that DVD with Honor Pulldown Flags.

[Talayero]

This is the fragment with Honor Pulldown Flags.

[jagabo]

Sorry, it wasn't necessary to upload that second clip. I should have realized that the field settings didn't matter for exporting. That was originally a 25i video but it's been very badly handled. Occasional fields or frames were dropped to reduce the field rate from 25i to 23.976i (50 fields per second to 47.952 fields per second). But the frames are still interlaced and the fields are in a strange order. The following script gives a smooth 48 fps result except for a missing frame (or two?) every 46 or 48 frames (alternating between the two):

MPEG2Source("FRAG2.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
Bob() #replace with your favorite bob function (Yadif, TempGaussMC_beta1mod, etc)
SelectEvery(10, 0,1,2,3,6,5,8,7)

You could decimate that with SelectEven() or SelectOdd() to leave 23.976 fps (you might even be able to work out a way to smooth out that missing-frame-jerk every 46 or 48 frames with a big SelectEvery()) and apply 3:2 pulldown. Or you could ChangeFPS(59.94) or ConvertFPS(59.94) then follow with SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave() to produce 29.97 interlaced fps.

But the SelectEvery(10, 0,1,2,3,6,5,8,7) pattern is likely to break down after a while because of the additional frame drop required every 1001 frames to convert 24 fps to 23.976 fps. Or from edits in the video.

Maybe Manono will have some ideas.