NTSC (29.97) to PAL in order to get rid of ghost effect

[manono]

Maybe Manono will have some ideas.

Maybe. Just strip out the TFF/RFF pulldown flags using DGPulldown. Tick the custom box and set it for 23.976->23.976. As jagabo says, there are missing fields from the conversion from PAL. Except for those you'll get a smooth playing 23.976fps interlaced video.

That thing is a complete mess made by idiots. You don't convert interlaced 25fps to 23.976fps by dropping fields and then apply pulldown to it. Unfortunately, if the final format is to be NTSC DVD you'll have to reencode it to add in duplicate fields if you want to keep it interlaced, or to deinterlace it followed by pulldown after encoding.

And if you plan on reencoding it, you don't even have to run it through DGPulldown. Make the D2V using Forced Film and take it from there.

[jagabo]

My earlier post was using DgIndex in Honor Pulldown Flags mode. Switching to Forced Film makes the processing much simpler. You no longer need the SelectEvery() to reorder the fields:

MPEG2Source("FRAG2.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
Bob() #replace with your favorite bob function (Yadif, TempGaussMC_beta1mod, etc)

That outputs 47.952 fps progressive frames just like the earlier script but you no longer have to worry about adjusting the SelectEvery() pattern.

[Talayero]

Hi again.

I don't know what script I should use to make this NTSC film watchable, getting rid of the ghost effect. I can't find the pattern.

Maybe I already did a conversion of a film with a similar problem, but for me is difficult to tell.

I wish I had a machine that could tell me automatically how to convert exactly each one of those films with ghost effect.

I attach two fragments of the film.

Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

I don't know what script I should use to make this NTSC film watchable, getting rid of the ghost effect.

Mpeg2Source("filename.d2v")
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
SRestore(frate=25)

[Talayero]

Thank you very much... with some delay!

It's not till today that I tried to fix this movie, applying your script.
I saw at once that your script worked very good, because I loaded it in virtualdubmod and realized that the ghost effect had disappeared.

So I encoded the film with CCE. But I didn't know exactly how configure it, and I guess I did something wrong.
My settings were:

-Frame rate: 29.97 (and rate conv. unticked)
-Pulldown: 3:2
-And in Picture quality: Progressive frame.

Now the audio doesn't fit and I would say the speed is not the right one, a bit accelerated, I think.

Thank you in advance.

[poisondeathray]

-Frame rate: 29.97
-Pulldown: 3:2

If you were restoring to 25 fps and PAL, you would use 25 fps, not 29.97 or any pulldown

You would need to resize to 720x576 in the script as well

(I'm assuming this is the one? I haven't looked at any of the videos, I'm just going by the previous post)

Mpeg2Source("filename.d2v")
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
SRestore(frate=25)
LanczosResize(720,576)

[Talayero]

Ok, thank you a lot! And sorry about that, because I had already asked this question and I didn't realized.

I had the right CCE settings for this script in the very first page of this thread. (25 fps, no pulldown and resize 720, 576).
I've just applied the wrong ones, the ones that fit in the script for a hard telecined movie.

Thank you again!

[Talayero]

Hi,
I've just did the conversion NTSC to PAL (with Yadif and SRestore) and everything went perfect except the chapters. I used PGDDemux to rip the chapters times from the original NTSC, but after the remuxing with Muxman the times doesn't fit exactly.

Before asking to you, I've searching a bit in the forum and internet about converting NTSC chapters to PAL chapters, but I didn't manage to find anything clear about it. May be the conversion must be done manually, changing the frames in the chapters.txt. But I don't know how.

I would appreciate some help. Thank you in advance!

[manono]

You're going from 29.97fps frame numbers to 25fps frame numbers. To convert NTSC frame numbers to PAL frame numbers, multiply each number in the celltimes.txt by 25/29.97=.8342. I think.

[Talayero]

Hi again.

The chapter conversion went perfect. Thank you.

I have now this other NTSC movie that in origin was PAL. I think they have done something very wrong in the conversion, because I applied this last script (Yadif and Srestore) but it doesn't work well. I think I see saw-tooth effect more than ghost effect, I don't know.

I attach two fragments of the movie.
Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

The video is bottom field first, not top field first. So change order=1 to order=0 in Yadif().

Mpeg2Source("Fragment 1.demuxed.d2v", CPU=2)
Yadif(order=0, mode=1)
SRestore(frate=25)
LanczosResize(720,576)

[Talayero]

Wow, now is perfect, thank you!
I guess I can choose progressive encoding in CCE, although it is bottom field first.

Can I ask you which is the easiest way to tell when a movie is top or bottom field?

Thank you.

[jagabo]

Once it's progressive it no longer has a field order. When the DVD player takes the 25 fps frames and outputs 50 fields per second it doesn't matter which field is seen first. They both come from the same point in time.

To check for field order use a simple bob filter:

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeBFF() #BFF is the default in in AviSynth, but just to be sure
Bob()

Step through the video frame by frame with VirtualDub. If you see motion with a two-steps-forward-one-step-back cadence you have the wrong field order, it's TFF, not BFF.

[Talayero]

OK thanks.
And how could I tell next time if it is top or bottom field, in order to change the order of yadif in script?
Or is it complicated to find out?

[jagabo]

I think you replied before I finished editing my last post. You could also use Yadif instead of Bob.

Mpeg2Source()
Yadif(mode=1, order=0)

If motion isn't smooth you guessed wrong.

[manono]

Or not set a field order in Yadif and hope AviSynth gets it right:

Yadif(mode=1)

If you're sure it's from a blended source (check with the bobber on but not SRestore), and you still get back a lot of blended frames, you might (very rarely) have to actually set the correct field order. You can also get the correct field order from DGIndex by running the Preview if the source is an MPEG of some sort.

[Talayero]

Hi again:

I have two other NTSC movies I would like to restore in order to get a cleaner image.

Sorry, but I can't figure out the scripts I should apply.

The first (Movie 1) I'm not sure it has the same pattern throughout the movie. I uploaded two fragments (it's an adult film, by the way)
The second one is a classic French film and I thought the pattern were three progressive and two interlaced, but I'm not sure.

Thank you very much if you could give me a hand and point me to the two scripts I need

[manono]

In the first sample the motion was intentionally slowed (till the very end) and you use the same script as for the rest of it when the motion is more normal. That portion can't be properly unblended because in slowing the motion they created too many blends.

The second one is standard hard telecine and is handled:

TFM().TDecimate()

If you handle the first sample the same way, maybe add Vinverse afterwards to clean up the leftover interlacing because a lot slips through using TFM at default settings.

The third one is standard PAL2NTSC field-blended garbage:

Yadif(Mode=1)#or the bobber of your choice
SRestore()

[Talayero]

Hi,
thank you a lot for everything.
I have this other film, a PAL one, and I don't know what script could I use to get rid of the interlacing.
I would appreciate very much some help.
Thank you in advance.

[jagabo]

That's a fully interlaced video -- 50 fields per second.

You can get 50 progressive frames per second from:

Mpeg2Source("Fragment.demuxed.d2v", CPU=6)
AssumeTFF()
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)

or even better (but very slow):

Mpeg2Source("Fragment.demuxed.d2v", CPU=6)
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC()

If you want 25 fps:

Mpeg2Source("Fragment.demuxed.d2v", CPU=6)
AssumeTFF()
Yadif(mode=0, order=1)

or decimate the results of the QTGMC() script with SelectEven() or SelectOdd():

Mpeg2Source("Fragment.demuxed.d2v", CPU=6)
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC()
SelectEven()

[manono]

It's standard interlaced PAL video. It's not field blended or anything. If for DVD, keep it interlaced. If you are making an AVI or intend to upload it (like to YouTube), any deinterlacer will do (Yadif on up to QTGMC.SelectEven)

If for conversion to NTSC, then there are other choices to make.

Edit: jagabo beat me to it.

[Talayero]

Thank you both.
I intend to watch it on my LCD TV, without compressing it to avi. So, I would like a 25fps PAL MPEG

Which of the four scripts written by jabago would be the best to get a better image?
May be this one, I don't know:

Mpeg2Source("Fragment.demuxed.d2v", CPU=6)
AssumeTFF()
Yadif(mode=0, order=1)

And without ticking the Progressive frame option in CCE Picture Quality?

[jagabo]

Thank you both.
I intend to watch it on my LCD TV, without compressing it to avi. So, I would like a 25fps PAL MPEG

Which of the four scripts written by jabago would be the best to get a better image?

None of them. Leave it interlaced. TVs fully support interlaced video. How do you plan to get it to the TV? DVD? DVDs fully support interlaced video too. There's no reason to reencode at all. It's already 25 fps PAL MPEG and DVD compatible.

[Talayero]

OK. Thank you.
The thing is I planned to get it to the TV directly from the Harddisk, playing the MPEG stream without muxing it in DVD format.
I've started to copy to harddisks many of my dvds, in order to be able to play it directly with a HTPC with several computers I've installed in my house, and using the MediaPortal program.

Sometimes (and specially when there's no attractive or useful menu) is quicker to play directly the MPEG stream without muxing it, and above all, I can in this way to put bookmarks in the movie using MediaPortal. When the format is DVD VIDEO_TS there's no way to put the bookmarks.

The problem may be that some mpegs are better watchable when muxed in DVD format, I don't know.

[jagabo]

You don't need to mux it into DVD VOB files. It should play properly as is. Be sure the player is set to deinterlace on-the-fly.