DVD ripping nightmare

[julius02]

Hi there. I am kind of new to all this DVD ripping business. Basically I would like to backup my DVD collection to .avi files, I kind of thought it would be a straight forward process. The reason I say is that I have experimented with backing up blu-rays and this has gone perfectly well... audio synced, no frame drops, stutters, perfect 1080p backups to mkv format.
I am using a WDTV 2nd Gen media player btw currently set to 1080p 60 output.
Basically when I rip my DVD’s, they play back with slight judders/ not very smooth camera panning. I am using dvdfab and using same as source for frame rate setting.
Please could someone help me and explain in basic terms why blu-ray rips play perfectly yet DVD rips are useless?
I have been reading on Google for hours/days and I have kind of started to understand that it may be something to do with the frame rate and how a pulldown setting may have been applied?
What on earth does this pulldown setting do and why?
One thing I have noticed is that if I set my wdtv unit to 1080p 50, the .avi files play perfectly but then the blu-rays have a stutter to them?
So if I was to change the frame rate on these suspect files (25fps) what frame rate would I need to change it to, I’m guessing the same as the blu-ray rips?
Thanks

[Bjs]

The FPS is what it should be for any given title ... do not change it ... the issue is with the wdtv unit not setting the correct output for the chosen file's fps which is why the stutter ... check the manufacturer for updated firmware fix ... and before applying it check their forums for owners having further issues after updating the firmware.

Dig through this forum and you'll see there's a lot of problems.

[The Mariner]

Hi,

Are you saying that Blu-Ray's converted to MKV playback fine in your WDTV, but DVD's converted to AVI don't ? You are using DVDFab ib both cases ?

I believe WDTV's have trouble playing back AVI's with QPEL & GMC enabled, so maybe this is what's causing you the problems. Have you tried converting a DVD to MKV ?

Just a thought....

[oldfart13]

No problem playing back any avis in my WDTV Live version 2. Might try using other software like AutoGK instead...

[julius02]

Yes blu rays are ripped using dvdfab to mkv with ac3 audio and also remux... They play flawlessly!!
Ok I will try my DVD rips in mkv. I just thought I would be okay with avi considering it's so universal?
What frame rate should I choose? Stick to same as source or opt for 23.9 or 24?
Thanks for the help guys.
So do u not recommending changing the frame rate of ones already ripped?

[hech54]

What frame rate should I choose? Stick to same as source or opt for 23.9 or 24?
Thanks for the help guys.
So do u not recommending changing the frame rate of ones already ripped?

............

The FPS is what it should be for any given title ... do not change it

[julius02]

So how does ripping to mkv solve the frame rate issue if it's same setting as avi?

[smitbret]

Don't know, but it's worth a shot. I can't tell you how many .mp4 files with playback issues that I've remuxed to .m2ts and played flawleesly on my PS3.

[The Mariner]

So how does ripping to mkv solve the frame rate issue if it's same setting as avi?

I don't think it's frame rate that is causing your problem. AVI & MKV are just 'containers' that hold the video & audio components of the movie. The actual video codec used can be one of a few different ones, yet they can still be packaged in an AVI or MKV container. If my idea about QPEL &/or GMC is correct it's possible that DVDFab is using a video codec that supports those settings (such as DivX or Xvid) when it creates an AVI, but it uses a different video codec that doesn't when it creates an MKV.

Open one of the AVI's that don't play properly in Media Info, and look to see if Video - Format settings, QPel or Format Settings, GMC is to 'Yes'. If they are that could be your problem.

[julius02]

Rite I had a few experiments and here are my findings. Firstly I tried using mkv instead of avi and that still causes judders. I then took the mkv and demuxed the audio and video, changed the frame rate of the ac3 audio to 23.9 then remixed it with mkvmerge again setting the video frame rate to 23.9..... Success the video plays back real smooth!
So regardless what setting /frame rate and container I use in dvdfab it still plays jerky!
I tried using autogk however despite me setting the framerate to 23.9 using ctrl +f9 the final framerate is 25fps??? I dnt understand?
Is there a different program I can use to rip DVD's that gives a framerate 23.9 that people can recommend? This is doin my bloody head in

[manono]

I tried using autogk however despite me setting the framerate to 23.9 using ctrl +f9 the final framerate is 25fps??? I dnt understand?
Is there a different program I can use to rip DVD's that gives a framerate 23.9 that people can recommend?

Weren't you already told not to mess with the framerate? To that I'll add not to go into the Hidden Options in AutoGK. They're hidden for a reason. Just let AutoGK do its thing and you should come out the other end with a smooth playing XviD or DivX AVI.

[julius02]

Rite I have tried autogk extensively! Even with just default values! The frame rate is still 25fps. I just want to rip a DVD to 23.976 fps so that it will play on my media player. Is it such a hard task to achieve? I have looked online and people are ripping to 23.976 no problems and even putting them up as torrents to share? How are they achieving this? There must be a way.
Like I said the result I get in dvdfab is just non-stop stuttering at 23.976, 24fps and 25fps. Yet blu ray rips play perfectly at 24fps (mediainfo is recognising these as 23.976fps).
Please help

[manono]

How are they achieving this? There must be a way

They're using the NTSC DVD version as a source. How about when you play it on the computer? Does it play smoothly there?

It seems to me that if everything stutters on your media player, the fault is with ... the media player, or some incorrect setting you're using. Have you checked the forums for the player, or contacted tech support?

Look, a PAL source DVD of a movie is at 25fps. To make it play at 23.976fps you have to both slow the video (easy) and the audio (somewhat harder, but still easy enough to do). One-click programs ordinarily don't do framerate conversions. You'll have to do some manual work on the audio and then mux it back yourself.

Why is this thread in the DVD Authoring forum? It has nothing to do with authoring DVDs.

[The Mariner]

Hi Julius02,

Have you read this guide to ripping & converting DVD's for the WDTV ?

[julius02]

Thanks for the guide Mariner.
No there isn't a problem with the media player... When have I said that. What is it with these forums and people jumping down your throat when you ask for a bit of help. My media player plays everything in 23.976fps and even 1080p rips. How is that a problem? It just doesn't like 25fps that's why I want to keep the frame rates pretty much the same.
If I change the output of the media player to 1080p 50 then 25fps play perfectly but then all the other material jumps consequently.
Every media player has it's issues anyway. Name me a perfect media player that has no issues with playback of this nature.
Also does it really matter if this isn't the correct section for this question. Help is help isn't it?

[manono]

No there isn't a problem with the media player... When have I said that.

Others have the same player and have no problems playing any AVIs at any framerates. Including 25fps. You didn't answer the question about how they play on the computer. I'll assume the answer is 'just fine'. I said it was either the player or something to do with the way you've set it up if your AVIs play jerky where fresh out of AutoGK and played on the computer they play fine.

It just doesn't like 25fps

I don't believe that. The guy that wrote the guide to which The Mariner linked above is Aussie himself, meaning 25fps PAL DVD sources.

Every media player has it's issues anyway

Sure, but the playing back of XviD/DivX AVIs of any framerate was ironed out years ago.

[The Mariner]

Hi Again,

Everyone on this forum needs to remember their manners, give everyone a fair go & remember they were new to all this once.

You shouldn't need to adjust the framerate, needing to do so is really, really unusual & that's why several people have said not to adjust it. I'd suggest you try ripping & converting per the guide in the link I have posted previously. The method described therein obviously works so it's a good place to start. If it doesn't give you decent results then maybe there is another issue we need to look for.

It would also help if you would post the Media Info output for a conversion that plays back fine & one that doesn't so we can compare.

[manono]

Everyone on this forum needs to remember their manners, give everyone a fair go & remember they were new to all this once.

If that's directed at me, please point out where I've been rude or impolite.

This guy doesn't answer the questions of people that try and help. He hasn't answered yours about MediaInfo, nor mine about how they play on the computer.

He's inconsistent with his answers:

My media player plays everything in 23.976fps

Like I said the result I get in dvdfab is just non-stop stuttering at 23.976, 24fps and 25fps.

And he's argumentative for no good reason since he really doesn't know what he's talking about (plenty of examples). I'll happily retire and you can take over. Good luck.

[julius02]

Goodness me, what forum have I signed up to tut tut. This seems to be a kindergarten forum lol.
Anyway I will make my answers concise just incase I offend anyone
Avi files generated from dvdfab in 25fps play fine on my computer, they dnt play fine on my Wd media player unless you change the output to 1080p 50 which then causes stutter on the 23.976 files.
Avi files generated from dvdfab at 23.976 stutter/jump really bad both on my pc using various players and on the wd media player.
In relation to qpel and gmc using mediainfo... It states NO next to each on the suspect files.
Files from Autogk are the same as those generated from dvdfab at 25fps... Can't comment on 23.976 as can't get it output at this frame rate

[The Mariner]

If that's directed at me, please point out where I've been rude or impolite.

Not directed especially at you. I see what I would call 'a lack of common courtesy' from many people throughout this forum. Some of the things I have seen written would get the author a smack in the mouth if they were said face-to-face.

I'll happily retire and you can take over. Good luck.

I don't see this as a contest & don't understand why you think it is. This isn't about who's advice Julius takes. If you have something to offer I couldn't be happier. Julius does, however, owe the people who are giving help the respect of trying what they suggest. If he's not prepared to do this then we are all wasting our time.

In relation to qpel and gmc using mediainfo... It states NO next to each on the suspect files.

Good. That eliminates that from the list of possible problems. Again, I suggest you follow the guides I mentioned & let us know how you get on.

[RabidDog]

Reading all your posts this struck me

"I am using a WDTV 2nd Gen media player btw currently set to 1080p 60 output." ??

Stuttering, or trying to match the framerate of the file,the wdtv and the TellyBox ...

WHat is your TV set to(framerate), maybe it should switch automatically, or be set to switch automatically.

What are your source files? NTSC or PAL, FILM or TV ... where in the the world are you?

All/most of your DVD's?blurays should be the same region I take it?
Or are they "holiday files" torrented from all round the world.

IMHO PAL stuff output @ 25fps NTSC stuff output @ 23.97Fps, possibly changing when you need to.

Try googling "WDTV AUTORES"

[Hoser Rob]

I wouldn't mess with the frame rate settings either.

From looking at the settings for my version of DVDFab, which may not be the same as yours, I see that there is a 2 pass mode (slow speed/high quality) for BR but not DVD. This may be the problem. I've found that using 1 pass conversion can definitely cause sync and stuttering problems.

I don't really rip DVDs much, I just copy them, but I think that's probably relevant if there's no 2 pass mode for DVD.

For DVD copying I just use DVDFab as a decrypter, which it's really good at. You can to this by setting the output as DVD-9. It'll just strip out the copy protection and create a folder with uncompressed VOB files.

Then I use that folder as input to DVD Shrink, which is no longer supported so it can't decrypt some of the newer copy protection schemes like Disney's. But other than that it's the best DVD copier I've seen. And it does 2 pass, plus it has sharpen and soften video filters. This produces a much, much better quality DVD video copy than using DVDFab alone does.

It sounds like this would be really slow but it isn't, at least if you ignore the fact that you're comparing 1 pass to 2 pass. You just can't get good quality without 2 pass. Just taking the copy protection out is pretty speedy, much faster than conversion and compression. Doing the compression with the hard drive as input rather than the optical drive really speeds things up.

In fact, though there's an added step, it seems at least as fast to me if not faster.

So what I'm trying to get at is that I'd suggest is that you just copy the movie to a DVD-9 sized VOB folder. Then use that as input to a good quality video converter (with 2 pass mode!) and see how that looks.

Handbrake is my favorite converter ... it even has better documentation than a lot of non free software, let alone other free stuff ... but it only outputs mp4 / Apple files. I've heard a lot of good things about the winff converter. I believe it's a front end for ported Linux utilities and I find those are really great tools. But it doesn't work right in Windows 7, by the author's admission, so I'm waiting for the Win7 version and can't speak from experience.

[julius02]

Or are they "holiday files" torrented from all round the world.

I do take offence to this, i have mentioned in several posts that my 23.976 rips are from my own personal blu-ray copies, which i have bought. I did state that this is the first time i have ventured into dvd rips. I do not download movies, this i think is very wrong and is very bad for our film industry. Please don't tar everyone with the same brush.
I do regret signing up to this forum, i have not had a very nice experience to say the least. I only posted hoping that someone could help me with dvd rips, instead i have had nothing but abuse.
I would like to say thanks to all the people that have offered help and advice, you have been most helpful.
I have decided to buy a HDI Dune Smart H1 player to replace my WDTV... i will start ripping using dvdfab at 25fps for all my dvd collection. My blu-rays will be fine as they are.
The smart Dune is very good, it offers hd upscale for all sd content and also has auto video frame output.