Encoding 59.940 video to AVI with Gordian Knot!

[xxtreasuresxx]

I'll try to keep this short if possible. I have been using Gordian Knot to encode all of my video card captures as well as my .TS captures directly from my cable box without a card for a couple of years now with fantastic results. I always get the proper video and file size that I select with great quality. Recently I captured a couple shows from the History channel that were 59.940 fps. These were the first things that I've ever captured in 59.940 fps. and I'm having a lot of trouble with them. I have read everything that I can find here and on google and have probably tried 30 or more different ways to encode these but I always get a smaller file size than the settings and the video plays at about twice the speed of the audio.

What I need is for someone to walk me through using Gordian Knot (NOT AUTO GK) the proper procedure for changing these to either 29.970fps or 23.976fps with the proper file size which in this case is 175MB at 624x352 for a 21 minute show. Please remember that I'm not even a mid level encoder so if you can answer my question for me you might have to be pretty specific in your reply.

Thank you so much in advance to anyone that can help me out!!!

[manono]

First you have to establish if the frames are all unique or in a 3/2 duplicate pattern (step through the D2V project file which you make using 'Honor Pulldown Flags'). If all are different, add SelectEven() somewhere in the script before encoding. If 3/2 add the SelectEven just before the IVTC section, remove the Telecide line and use the Decimate line.

Of course, if every frame is unique, by removing half of them it'll no longer play as smoothly as it once did. Any particular reason you can't keep it at 59.94fps?

[xxtreasuresxx]

Thanks manono for the reply,
I do have Honor Pulldown Flags checked when creating .d2v file but I'm not really sure what you mean by "step through it". I did try both ways you suggested and ended up with the exact same results that I've been getting all along. My final AVI is 29.970 with perfect sound but very fast video. Also the file size is always smaller than selected. For these discussions I'm using a 3 minute test video which comes out to 23.5mb instead of 24.?? when set to 25mb in GK as it should and a 3 min. test is only 1:54 in final length.

I have also tried to just leave it at 59.940 but since that is not an option in GK I end up with the same problem. I'm sure that I'm just illiterate enough to be missing something simple but I sure don't know what.

I uploaded my 3 min. source and my final AVI to Megaupload. Maybe if you or someone else would take a look you would see my problem.

Source: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WXY3W4J5
Final AVI: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XA5PIQK3

Thank you again for trying to help me out!!!!

[manono]

By 'step through it' I mean open the D2V in GKnot and hit that right-pointing arrow below the picture to advance a frame at a time. When you do that you'll see that 3/2 pattern I mentioned earlier. It was shot on film and removing the duplicate frames will return it to 23.976fps.

I have no idea how that sample got speeded up. It's playing at 29.97fps but the dupe frames (most of them anyway) have been removed. It seems to be a 23.976fps video playing speeded up at 29.97fps. I'd need to see your AviSynth script in order to troubleshoot it. In any event, it can be slowed down in VDub(Mod) without reencoding. But you'll have to mux the audio back in as part of it was cut off when the video finished too quickly.

What I'd suggest is reencoding the whole thing again. Where the original unedited script says:

# TRIM
#trim(startframe,endframe)

# IVTC
#Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate()
# or use
#IVTC(44,11,95)
#GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0)

change it so that part says:

# TRIM
#trim(startframe,endframe)
SelectEven()
# IVTC
Decimate()
# or use
#IVTC(44,11,95)
#GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0)

That'll bring it down to 23.976fps and it should play at the correct speed.

[xxtreasuresxx]

Well I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I tried exactly as you said and changed the script the way you show and I still get the same results. Here is the script that is created before I do anything to it. Also I have tried changing the input source in GK from OTHER which is what comes up when I open the d2v to NTSC and even tried PAL and even done the same on the output side all with the same results. At the bottom of GK where it has frames and FPS dropdown I've tried leaving it exactly as it comes up when I open the d2v file which is the frame count # inserted and the FPS drop down blank. I have also manually changed it to 29.970 and 23.976 with no luck either way.

************************************************** ************************************************** *******

# Created with Gordian Knot
#
# http://gknot.doom9.org

# PLUGINS
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\K ernelDeInt.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\U nDot.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ dgbob.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ Convolution3d.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ FluxSmooth.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ TomsMoComp.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\VSFilter.dll")
#LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ SimpleResize.dll")

# SOURCE
mpeg2source("C:\Documents and Settings\Blank\Desktop\Video\59940test.d2v")

# TRIM
#trim(startframe,endframe)

# IVTC
#Telecide(order=1,guide=1).Decimate()
# or use
#IVTC(44,11,95)
#GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0)

# DEINTERLACING (1)
#FieldDeinterlace()
#FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)
#TomsMoComp(1,5,1)

# DEINTERLACING (2)
KernelDeInt(order=1,sharp=true)
# or maybe
#DGBob(order=1,mode=0)

# DEINTERLACING (3) - special requests
#GreedyHMA(1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0)
#Telecide()
#SeparateFields()

# CROPPING
crop(48,32,1194,674)

# SUBTITLES
#VobSub("FileName")

# RESIZING
BicubicResize(624,352,0,0.75)

# DENOISING: choose one combination (or none)
Undot()

# 1) little noise
#Temporalsoften(2,3,3,mode=2,scenechange=6)
#mergechroma(blur(1.3))
#FluxSmoothST(5,7)

# 2) medium noise
#Temporalsoften(3,5,5,mode=2,scenechange=10)
#Convolution3d("moviehq")
#FluxSmoothST(7,7)

# 3) heavy noise
#Temporalsoften(4,8,8,mode=2,scenechange=10)
#Convolution3d("movielq")
#FluxSmoothST(10,15)

# BORDERS
#AddBorders(left,top,right,bottom)

# COMPRESSIBILITY CHECK
# !!!!Snip Size now has to be 14 for use in GKnot!
#SelectRangeEvery(280,14)

# FOOL CCEnc
#empty = BlankClip()
#AudioDub(last,empty)

************************************************** ************************************************** *******

Thanks again for looking since I'm lost!!!

[manono]

That's the script you used to make the AVI you posted earlier? One thing's for sure and that is you don't need to add KernelDeint to the script as the video is progressive to begin with and that only degrades it.

Anyway, do me a favor and open that script as posted above in VDubMod and go File->File Information and check if it says 59.94fps.

Now, remove all the lines starting with '#', since they don't do anything. Then remove the KernelBob line. Why did you crop anything? I don't see any black bars in the source MPG. Can't you just do a resize without cropping?
Next, after removing all the stuff, edit the script like this:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\U nDot.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\Documents and Settings\Blank\Desktop\Video\59940test.d2v")
SelectEven()
Decimate()
BicubicResize(624,352,0,0.75)

Remove the spaces in the Undot.dll and before the decomb.dll. The cut-and-paste did that. Save and open that script in VDubMod and check the framerate. If it says 23.976fps, encode using it. When you open it in the GKnot Encoder panel, make sure it has the framerate correct, in the upper right corner. If it doesn't (on my computer it says 25fps for some reason), then I think GKnot doesn't support source framerates of 59.94fps. It seems GKnot gets the framerate from the Resolution Tab which can't show a D2V with a 59.94 framerate. If that's the case, you'll have to do it yourself in VDubMod. Do you know how? Either that or use AutoGK which does support a source framerate of 59.94. Why don't you want to use it? You just have to go into the Hidden Options (CTRL/F9) and check the 'Reduce FPS for 60/50fps HDTV progressive sources' box. I'm sorry you're having the problem but GKnot hasn't been updated to handle 59.94fps sources, I think.

[xxtreasuresxx]

Everything I know is from a very poor guide I found a few years ago and I really know nothing about video or film. Thats why the kerneldeinterlace, because thats what I choose on everything else I do and had no idea not to use it on progressive. I tried AutoGK a few months ago and had so many problems getting my outcome where I was used to that I just gave up on it. Maybe I'll give it another go.

When I open the file in Vdubmod it does say 59.940 and after I make all the edits you show it still says 59.940. Also where you say to make sure the framerate is correct in the upper right corner, my GK has it in the lower left corner and I'm using 0.35.0 . Should I be using a different version because I was not aware there was one.

Now for a little good news! I have been concentrating so much on encoding these eps since they are the first thing I have gotten that were 59.940 that I didn't take in account that maybe they were the problem. I just finished doing a capture in 59.940 of a different show from the same network and used your post (#4) and it came out perfectly at 23.976 fps and the proper resolution and size.

So apparentely the entire problem lies with that particular show which I really now don't understand. I did a small test from another episode of the same show with the same results so if you have any further ideas I would love to hear them. If not I guess there might be certain shows I'll have to try and find somewhere else if I want to save them.

Also, if for example I crop left 4 - right 6 - top 8 - bottom 6 and can only get GK at lets say 624x304 without further cropping you mentioned that I can resize. Can I only crop whats necessary and then resize to what I want? This was never covered in the guide I found.

I have learned more from you in the past day than in the past year from other sources.

[manono]

I just reopened GKnot and now it's working OK. Rather than opening the D2V file, Open the script instead, the edited one I posted above. Yes, in the lower left of the Resolution Tab, it says 23.976fps. I was talking about the Encoder Tab earlier, and I had mistakenly opened the AviSynth Script file in there. Bad idea, sorry.

I don't really think the problem is the show. Maybe it was my advice. I think if you check that edited AVS first in VDubMod and confirm it's 23.976fps, and then open it in the Bitrate Tab of GKnot and it shows as 23.976fps, then you can encode off of the AVS rather than the D2V. Save that AVS as a template for future encodes and you'll only have to change a few names in the script (and maybe some crop values). But use it only for 1280x720 shows, not 1080i channels, or any standard-def channels. And only those 1280x720 shows that exhibit that 3/2 pattern I described earlier.

When I open the file in Vdubmod it does say 59.940 and after I make all the edits you show it still says 59.940.

It shouldn't. If you added in the SelectEven and the Decimate lines (and saved the changes), it should now say 23.976fps.

Also, if for example I crop left 4 - right 6 - top 8 - bottom 6 and can only get GK at lets say 624x304

For these 1280x720 shows, the Input Pixel Aspect Ratio is neither 4:3 nor 16:9, but 1:1. Make sure the 1:1 box is ticked in the Resolution Tab. Then do your cropping (again, in that one sample you provided I saw nothing to crop) and resizing. I did a test with your crop figures of a 1280x720 source (your sample) and still got 624x352, although with a pretty big aspect error. Crop a few more pixels from the left and right to bring the aspect error down to 0.5 or below, if possible. Or not. A 1.5% aspect error is probably not noticeable. Also, in the Options Tab, make sure you have the 'Follow ITU-R...' box checked.

[xxtreasuresxx]

It was my mistake with the AVS and yes after the changes it shows in file info as 23.976 and also comes up in the bitrate tab as 23.976 as well. My next problem is it still makes me save and encode before I can complete the GK process and start encoding. When I do this it wants to overwrite the avs again. I went ahead and let it overwrite the AVS and then just replaced it with the new one prior to encoding. This still gives me the same result.

I went ahead and captured a small sample of 2 more shows that were 59.940 from this network and again they worked great. I've now tried samples of 4 eps of the original show and all 4 encode with the fast video. I'm soooooo confused.

It sounds like you have GK so I was curious if you tried to encode the sample I uploaded to see what you would get???

[manono]

Yes, I encoded the sample. It wound up in synch. I opened the D2V and then edited the script to be the same as I showed you, except for my names and paths:

LoadPlugin("D:\AviSynth Stuff\Dlls\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\d ecomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\U nDot.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\Test\test.d2v")
SelectEven()
Decimate()
LanczosResize(720,404)
Undot()

And then I set it up in the Encoding Control Panel. One possible problem for you might have been not having the correct framerate set for figuring the bitrate. Under XviD->Second Pass->Target Size->calc->frames per second, you have to make sure it's set at the correct framerate. I suspect yours is still at 29.97fps. I don't know if this affects only the bitrate calculation (and thus explains the wrong final sizes you've been getting) or also the final framerate as well (and thus also explains the speeded up video and out-of-synch audio). I've never done any AVIs in GKnot that started out as 59.94fps. My experience has been with DVD sources.

If GKnot is overwriting your editing of the script, then you're doing it wrong. Above and to the left of the video go File->Save and Encode->Edit (Edit the script)->Save and Encode. At that point it takes you to the Encoder Tab. Take a moment to check the edited and saved script. My edits are kept. Aren't yours?

[xxtreasuresxx]

Well I've tried again about 20 times more and still get the same results. I'm following your instructions exactly. I have still been trying other 59.940 fps shows from this network and they all seem fine with the exception of one. Even it encoded fine and at the proper frame rate but was a little jittery wherever there was a lot of motion. I re-encoded it a few different ways with the same results. This show is on again Friday so I'm going to cap it again then and see what I get. If it worked fine for you then that's probably not going to help me at all but I want to eliminate the possibility that all my ep's of this show got corrupted somehow. This is just so unbelievable that I can't get it with this show.

I'll let you know Friday what happens. Thanks again for everything.