One hour, 37min AVI file that I want to turn into a VCD

[penang]

Hello, please bear with me for I am a newbie.

I have a 634 MB AVI file - 1 hour and 37 minutes of movie - that I want to turn into a VCD.

But when I converted that AVI into the VCD format (MPG file) it ballooned into 950MB in size.

So I downloaded "AVI recomp" and managed to shrink that file into 500 MB or so.

When I tried to convert that 500 MB sized file into the MPG format, again it ballooned into 950MB or so !

I know there is such a thing called "DVD" but since I am a newbie I want to do some experiments and try to turn that AVI file into a VCD format, and learn from the process.

I have read quite a number of threads here and elsewhere, so here are my questions:

1. How to lower the bitrate of AVI file?

2. What software, preferably freeware, should I use to lower the bitrate of that AVI file?

3. After I lower the bitrate of that AVI file, which encoder do you recommend if I want to do a 4-pass or 5-pass encoding in order to "improve the quality" of the movie?

My system is a 4-core CPU with 4GB of RAM, running Win 7 / Linux and XP. (I have 3 HDs on the system, each booting to a different OS), with more than 4 TB of HD space.

Many, many thanks in advance !!!

[redwudz]

You should read the VCD specifications to the upper left on this page under 'WHAT IS' VCD. VCD format requires '1150 kbit/sec MPEG-1' video. For a one hour 37min video, that works out to about 950 MB. You might be able to make a out of spec VCD, but I don't know if players will recognize it.

And penang, in the future please use a more descriptive subject title in your posts to allow others to search for similar topics. I will change yours this time. From our rules:

Try to choose a subject that describes your topic.
Please do not use topic subjects like Help me!!! or Problems.

Thanks,
Moderator redwudz

[guns1inger]

Proper spec VCD only supports around 65 minutes, so this is a two disc movie (one of the many reasons wby VCD is a rubbish format). It doesn't matter what you do to the AVI file, the end result will be the same (although if you screw with the AVI file enough, you will get a VCD with much lower quality than normal). Create a DVD or get a player that can play the AVI file.

[penang]

Thanks for the replies !!

I have read about KVCD and am contemplating to experiment with it.

Even if the end result could not be read in any VCD player I would have picked up a thing or two about playing around with bitrate, 4-pass / 5-pass encoding and stuffs like that.

Those are what I am aiming for, actually. I am here to soak up knowledge from Gurus like you guys, so my original 3 questions still stand:

1. How to lower the bitrate of AVI file?

2. What software, preferably freeware, should I use to lower the bitrate of that AVI file?

3. After I lower the bitrate of that AVI file, which encoder do you recommend if I want to do a 4-pass or 5-pass encoding in order to "improve the quality" of the movie?

Thank you again !!

[guns1inger]

1. Encode with a lower bitrate

2. XmediaRecode, Virtualdub

3. You can't. If you lower the bitrate, you will reduce the quality. Using extra passes may reduce the amount of quality you lose, but it wont improve the quality. More than 2 passes is masturbation. KVCD is masturbation.

I think you are also missing a lot of very fundamental knowledge, and this is leading you down the wrong path.

VCD does not use AVI. It uses Mpeg-1. That means that you will have to have to convert (by encoding) your AVI video to mpeg-1. Reducing the bitrate of the AVI before doing with will have absolutely no effect at all on the size if the video once it is encoded to mpeg-1.

Filesize = running time X bitrate.

Doesn't matter whether it is AVI encoded with Xvid or Divx, or a VCD encoded with Mpeg-1, or an flv file encoded with VP6. If you use the same bitrate, you will get (give or a take a small amount for header information) the same file size.

So dicking about re-encoding your AVI to a lower bitrate is a waste of time, will only reduce the quality fo the file, and will get you no closer to getting a VCD.

If you are serious about learning the ins and outs of video, stop playing with dead formats and get work with something decent and worthwhile.

[DB83]

Until today I had not heard of KVCD. So I took a look at it. Wow ! as I stepped out of my Tardis that is cool. And it probably had appeal in 2003-05 when it was written with the relative cost of blank media.

Move on 6 years and blank dvd media is relatively cheap - certainly much, much cheaper than it was in 2005 so the appeal in such a system is no longer there. I have no desire to try it as I can not see how an mpeg1 or mpeg2 video could be encoded with such long GOPs can be equal or better than a well encoded Xvid/Divx just to give one example.

If you have a 1 hr 37 min vid at 634 mpeg then just burn that to a CD. You do not say what codec was used so it may well play on a dvd player anyway. Why muck around with further compression as the movie will just get worse.

4 or 5 pass encoding ??? AFAIK there is no improvement beyond 2-pass. It will probably even lower the quality beyond that.

[penang]

1. Encode with a lower bitrate

2. XmediaRecode, Virtualdub

3. You can't. If you lower the bitrate, you will reduce the quality. Using extra passes may reduce the amount of quality you lose, but it wont improve the quality. More than 2 passes is masturbation. KVCD is masturbation.

I think you are also missing a lot of very fundamental knowledge, and this is leading you down the wrong path.

VCD does not use AVI. It uses Mpeg-1. That means that you will have to have to convert (by encoding) your AVI video to mpeg-1. Reducing the bitrate of the AVI before doing with will have absolutely no effect at all on the size if the video once it is encoded to mpeg-1.

Filesize = running time X bitrate.

Doesn't matter whether it is AVI encoded with Xvid or Divx, or a VCD encoded with Mpeg-1, or an flv file encoded with VP6. If you use the same bitrate, you will get (give or a take a small amount for header information) the same file size.

So dicking about re-encoding your AVI to a lower bitrate is a waste of time, will only reduce the quality fo the file, and will get you no closer to getting a VCD.

If you are serious about learning the ins and outs of video, stop playing with dead formats and get work with something decent and worthwhile.

Many thanks for your advice !

I'm learning, and the learning process of course, like exploring, may sometimes lead to dead ends or branch out into a totally new direction. But anyway, thanks again !

[penang]

4 or 5 pass encoding ??? AFAIK there is no improvement beyond 2-pass. It will probably even lower the quality beyond that.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=15491

[DB83]

4 or 5 pass encoding ??? AFAIK there is no improvement beyond 2-pass. It will probably even lower the quality beyond that.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=15491

Which contradicts what Gunslinger wrote at the same time as I made my reply.

That thread you quote was 9 years ago. There is no comment was encoding/codec was used. These have somewhat improved in that time.

[guns1inger]

Quality is, for the most part, subjective. if you invest hours and hours and hours doing 4 or 5 pass video it will look better because you have to justify the hours you wasted. But most of the time if you put that video next to the same video encoded with two passes and get an independent audience with no prior investment to tell you the difference, they won't.

And all this is moot when it comes to VCD as there aren't any mpeg-1 encoders that support more than 2 passes (AFAIK - happy to be shown different), and as I keep pointing out and you keep ignoring, re-encoding your AVI files before converting to VCD is is a waste of time and has no effect on the final outcome.

[davexnet]

I used KVCD before I bought a DVD recorder 6 or 7 years ago. It works with the free Tmpgenc 2.5.
It's setup to use CQ mode and at the time, I made quite a few VCD's with it some of which I still have (gathering dust somewhere).

It can easily fit 2 hours on one disk. They used to work without issue on the three standalone players I had.

[penang]

Quality is, for the most part, subjective. if you invest hours and hours and hours doing 4 or 5 pass video it will look better because you have to justify the hours you wasted. But most of the time if you put that video next to the same video encoded with two passes and get an independent audience with no prior investment to tell you the difference, they won't.

And all this is moot when it comes to VCD as there aren't any mpeg-1 encoders that support more than 2 passes (AFAIK - happy to be shown different), and as I keep pointing out and you keep ignoring, re-encoding your AVI files before converting to VCD is is a waste of time and has no effect on the final outcome.

Please don't get me wrong.

I am certainly *NOT* ignoring any of you guys. I am here to learn, to explore, to soak up knowledge, to experiment.

I am learning from square one, and as I have said previously, I thank you all for all the helps and advices you have so generously share with me, and I do sincerely beg for your pardon if I slip up here and there.

[penang]

I used KVCD before I bought a DVD recorder 6 or 7 years ago. It works with the free Tmpgenc 2.5.
It's setup to use CQ mode and at the time, I made quite a few VCD's with it some of which I still have (gathering dust somewhere).

It can easily fit 2 hours on one disk. They used to work without issue on the three standalone players I had.

That is what I read in the KVCD related sites.

However, my first experiment ended up in failure.

I use TMPGEnc, with the KVCD templates, as instructed by the KVCD website, to encode that AVI files.

It did shrink the 634MB AVI file into a 521MB MPG file, as opposed to the >950MB MPG files using the "standard procedure".

And when I use NERO - again, following the instruction of the KVCD site - to burn the MPG file (using the image recorder), it ballooned to a 1.2GB .nrg NERO image file, which of course, is way too big for a VCD disk.

Right now I am still trying to figuring out what I've done wrong.

[davexnet]

What you did wrong is to allow Nero to re-encode it.
The encoding is already done by tmpgenc - perhaps there is something in the Nero settings to allow non-standard VCD.

A second option would be to use VCDeasy to "author" the mpeg file.

[Bjs]

Use fitcd to calculate the required video bitrate ... encode with quenc ... use the last free version of vcdeasy to author a non-compliant vcd ... done.

----

Used to use bbmpeg as it showed time vs file size ... after 5 min's if it looked like going over I simply stopped and adjusted the bitrate lower ... unfortunately hasn't been updated and continues to exit under sp3 here.

The time machine "2002" being 1h:36mins turned out very well for a 1 cd job ... even a few asked how I managed to get such good picture quality.

[penang]

What you did wrong is to allow Nero to re-encode it.
The encoding is already done by tmpgenc - perhaps there is something in the Nero settings to allow non-standard VCD.

A second option would be to use VCDeasy to "author" the mpeg file.

I did find that "standard VCD" thing and untick it, as been instructed by the KVCD step-by-step picture tutorial.

Hmm ...

[davexnet]

Then try vcdeasy. Have it create the bin/cue files and burn with Nero or Imgburn.

[DB83]

I really do not understand all of this.

All this work just to get a sub 2 hour movie to fit on one CD. A movie that may have looked OK in 2002 on a smallish CRT tv.

Each to their own I suppose but I still ask why ?

[guns1inger]

I really do not understand all of this.

All this work just to get a sub 2 hour movie to fit on one CD. A movie that may have looked OK in 2002 on a smallish CRT tv.

Each to their own I suppose but I still ask why ?

Why do people watch Glee or listen to Lady Ga-Ga ?

[DB83]

I really do not understand all of this.

All this work just to get a sub 2 hour movie to fit on one CD. A movie that may have looked OK in 2002 on a smallish CRT tv.

Each to their own I suppose but I still ask why ?

Why do people watch Glee or listen to Lady Ga-Ga ?

I suspect the answer you are looking for is 'because they can'

But will they still be listening to Lady Ga-Ga in 8 years time ?

[penang]

I really do not understand all of this.

All this work just to get a sub 2 hour movie to fit on one CD. A movie that may have looked OK in 2002 on a smallish CRT tv.

Each to their own I suppose but I still ask why ?

Why do people watch Glee or listen to Lady Ga-Ga ?

I suspect the answer you are looking for is 'because they can'

But will they still be listening to Lady Ga-Ga in 8 years time ?

I know this is off-topic, and I do not listen to that Lady Goo-Goo anyway, but ...

My parents are still listening to Bee Gees and my grand parents are still listening to Beatles.

[Nelson37]

Hey, I still listen to the Beatles!

While the search for knowledge is always good, you are proceeding down a long-dead dead end road. Many DVD players will play many AVI formats, such as Xvid and Divx, with some restrictions. DVD blanks are cheap. Hard drive storaage space is cheap. Learning how to make a VCD is a nearly complete waste of time.

Many here don't even bother to burn DVDs anymore, I know I haven't made one in years. Just play'em straight from the hard drive.

[penang]

Hey, I still listen to the Beatles!

While the search for knowledge is always good, you are proceeding down a long-dead dead end road. Many DVD players will play many AVI formats, such as Xvid and Divx, with some restrictions. DVD blanks are cheap. Hard drive storaage space is cheap. Learning how to make a VCD is a nearly complete waste of time.

Many here don't even bother to burn DVDs anymore, I know I haven't made one in years. Just play'em straight from the hard drive.

Sorry for this late reply.

My quest for knowledge is started by, *ahem*, religion.

You see, I live in a certain country dominated by a certain religion that hates Christianity.

In 2008, I bought some DVDs when I was abroad - DVDs containing movies based on the Bible - but when I returned home all those DVDs were seized by the custom.

So last year when I was abroad again, I bought those DVDs again, but this time I ripped those DVDs when I was still abroad, resulting in some 27GB of AVI files which I stored in my 32GB thumb drive.

Now that I am home I am trying to convert these AVI files back into disc forms, so that I can share them with my church members.

Instead of burning the AVI straight back into DVD forms - which will take the form of like 25 DVDs - I am trying to figure out a way to "shrink" those movies so that I can cramp more of them into less discs - by playing with bitrate or such.

Do understand that the country I lived in persecutes Christians in daily basis, and not a lot of people dare to own 25 DVDs of Bible movie.

That is the reason why I am doing what I am doing.

Hope you guys understand, and thank you.

BTW, I am still refining my experiments. The result of first few tries are not that satisfying.

[AlanHK]

Now that I am home I am trying to convert these AVI files back into disc forms, so that I can share them with my church members.

Most recent DVD players can play AVI files (DivX ones at least) if you just burn them to a data disc.
Try running the files through AVI ReComp if they don't play as-is.