Canon HV 40 settings, etc

[tp3813]

Following my recent post regarding problems with AVCHD editing, finally decided to go back to tape and bought a Canon HV 40, which I am quite pleased with, getting some damn good videos. The thing has more buttons than the flight deck on the Starship Enterprise but slowly getting the hang of it.

Not being an expert on these things I am a little confused though regarding the settings. On the HV 10 I used to have there, was on the one HDV setting, but on the HV 40 there are two settings,
HDV and HDV (PF 25) which apparently means recording with a progressive frame rate of 25 fps, which don't mean shit to me?

What do they mean by "progressive" and what is the difference compared to normal HDV setting?

Of those two settings which is the higher quality one, HDV or HDV (PF 25)?

Also mentions this.... Frame Rate(s)60i, 30p, 24p, Native 24p, Progressive which is rather confusing, can anyone explain what this actually means... native, progressive, etc.
I assume these frame rates are part of the settings, like HDV, DV since frame rates cant be adjusted in the camera.

[Baldrick]

I guess you have read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV ?

[aedipuss]

Also mentions this.... Frame Rate(s)60i, 30p, 24p, Native 24p, Progressive which is rather confusing, can anyone explain what this actually means... native, progressive, etc.
I assume these frame rates are part of the settings, like HDV, DV since frame rates cant be adjusted in the camera.

those would only apply to ntsc cameras. your's is pal i assume if it does 25fps.

interlaced captures 2 separate fields at different times per frame. progressive captures two fields at the same time per frame.

[edDV]

Following my recent post regarding problems with AVCHD editing, finally decided to go back to tape and bought a Canon HV 40, which I am quite pleased with, getting some damn good videos. The thing has more buttons than the flight deck on the Starship Enterprise but slowly getting the hang of it.

Not being an expert on these things I am a little confused though regarding the settings. On the HV 10 I used to have there, was on the one HDV setting, but on the HV 40 there are two settings,
HDV and HDV (PF 25) which apparently means recording with a progressive frame rate of 25 fps, which don't mean shit to me?

What do they mean by "progressive" and what is the difference compared to normal HDV setting?

Just be happy you are in PAL-land. NTSC telecine is so much more complicated.

PAL (analog, DV/DVD 576i or 1080i) records with alternate line fields every 1/50th second. The positive is you get smooth motion when played at 1x speed on a normal TV. The negative is computers don't handle interlace video well by insisting both fields should be shown as a progressive weave. A simple weave of 567i or 1080i shows alternate line displacement (sometimes called mice teeth) during motion. A deinterlacing player (e.g. MPCHC) will fix this.

Progressive 25p in PAL-land means both fields are sampled at the same point in time every 1/25th second. This eliminates alternate line displacement during motion on computer monitors at the expense of half motion smoothness (choppy motion).

[edDV]

dup

[edDV]

Of those two settings which is the higher quality one, HDV or HDV (PF 25)?

Also mentions this.... Frame Rate(s)60i, 30p, 24p, Native 24p, Progressive which is rather confusing, can anyone explain what this actually means... native, progressive, etc.
I assume these frame rates are part of the settings, like HDV, DV since frame rates cant be adjusted in the camera.

HDV (50 fields per second) will look best on a large screen HDTV.

HDV PF25 (25 frames per second progressive) is good for computer compression but will look choppy on a large screen.

60i/30p is the the NTSC-land equiv. or PAL-land 50i/25p

24p (23.976p) is film rate which is largely ignored in PAL-land.

Native 24p is actual 23.976p (not telecined to 59.94i) which is of interest in NTSC-land.

Frame rates can be adjusted in some cameras. Others don't give you a choice.

[tp3813]

Thanks edDV

You sure know your stuff

Well as mentioned in previous post, one of the main things I use the camera for is to do clips for Internet.

Used Sony Vegas .wmv format in the past but now find with HV40 I get better results using .mp4

For Internet clips tried two experiments- HDV and HDV PF25 as source, then both source files with Vegas edited down to 16:9 HD 25p and then tried 16:9 HD 30p

Whether using HDV or HDV PF25 there does not seem to be a lot in it.

So just can't decide which editing setting to use, very difficult to see much difference although filmed in HDV PF25 and edited with 16:9 HD 25p does just seem to have the edge in regard to net clips?

[edDV]

If you are shooting for multi-purpose, 50i gets you smoother motion. 50i can be deinterlaced into 50p (as done in HD displays) or 25p (for internet or mobile devices).

If you shoot directly to 25p, you can skip the deinterlace step but the motion will always be half sampled and less smooth. Some HDTV displays will take 25p and interpolate intermediate frames at 50p or 100p rate at the cost of interpolation artifacts. It will never look as smooth as 50i.

If you are going to shoot 25p, camera stability is a must. Pans and Zooms should be avoided. Film technique uses narrow depth of field lenses to keep the background out of focus. Sharp backgrounds at 24/25 fps look jumpy with any camera movement. This draws the eye away from the object of interest and looks unnatural.