TV must be ON to record to DVD? [SOLVED]

[remm]

Hello everyone! I hope someone can explain this to me!

My setup is very simple:

cable in from wall to Time/Warner cable box
HDMI out from cable box to HDTV
S-Video/RCA Audio out from cable box to DVD recorder


DVD Recorder HDMI out to HDTV

So that's it. Cable coming in from wall to the cable box, and the cable box feeding the signal OUT to HDTV with HDMI cable, and OUT to DVD recorder with S-Video/RCA Audio.

Then the DVD recorder feeds the HDTV using HDMI cable.

So I set the DVD recorder to record a movie the other day. As the movie began, I had on the TV to make sure everything was working, and the DVD recorder turned on, and began recording and all looked well. So I turned off the TV, leaving the DVD recorder and cable box TURNED ON.

Now since the cable service is running directly to the cable box, and the cable box is running directly to the DVD recorder, there is no reason the TV should have to be on. In fact, I should be able to record to the DVD player without having a TV at all. I only need the TV for playback, right?

So why is it when I played back my recording, that it recorded the movie fine up to the point I turned the TV off, then only recorded the audio thereafter, with a big message on the TV that said something like: If you cannot view the video display the DVI input may not be working. Please try another input.

I tested this many times, by standing there and beginning a recording manually, then turning off the TV and turning it back on a few secs later, then ending the recording and playing back. Same thing... records fine, but only as long as the TV is on!!

This was never an issue before. I swapped the cable box thinking maybe the svideo port was faulty, but it works fine when watching through the DVD (i.e. input set to DVD to watch TV through the DVD player).

Can anyone shed light on this??? Thanks so much!!

[edDV]

It shouldn't be happening but is.

I suspect it is a cable box HDCP issue. What is the HD cable box?

In order for the cable box to feed HDMI to an HDTV, there must be an active HDCP handshake. When you switch off the TV, the connection is broken so the cable box goes into this warning state rather than just feeding SD analog S-Video.

My HD cable boxes are Motorola. They completey blank the analog outputs when HDMI is used. The only workaround is to use analog component cables instead of HDMI.

In your case there may be a "screen saver" or power saving mode in your HDTV that keeps the HDMI connection active.

[jagabo]

The HDCP copy protection of the HDMI signal is biting you. When the TV is turned off the cable box puts up the warning message that HDCP isn't working. Unfortunately, that means you get the same message at the SD analog output. You can avoid this problem by using component cables instead of HDMI. Too bad it's come to this.

I wonder if an Mux HD (HDCP stripper) would get around this.

[Psco2007]

On my dvd recorder, the dvd recorder must be OFF to start timed programming.
I use HDMI and it is not an issue.

[remm]

It shouldn't be happening but is.

I suspect it is a cable box HDCP issue. What is the HD cable box?

ScientificAtlanta model Explorer 4250 HDC

In order for the cable box to feed HDMI to an HDTV, there must be an active HDCP handshake. When you switch off the TV, the connection is broken so the cable box goes into this warning state rather than just feeding SD analog S-Video. [...] The only workaround is to use analog component cables instead of HDMI.

I wondered about that!! I figured it was the HDMI cabling when I remembered HDMI is a two-way cable. I kept thinking there are no outputs from the TV going anywhere, but with HDMI there is, even if it's plugged into an input.

It is so aggravating that all this copyright protection garbage makes life so difficult AND takes away all of our previous conveniences without doing an iota of good in terms of piracy. Remember VCRs when you could watch one program and record another without any special equipment? In fact, if you hooked up two VCRs you could record two different shows and watch a third. Now I can't even record ONE show and have the TV **off** unless I use inferior cabling!! (Yeah, I know component is fine but it requires analog RCA audio vs the surround sound digital audio provided by HDMI... not to mention a ton of ugly cabling.)

Anyway, thanks edDV and jagabo.

@ Psco2007 -- When you set up timed programming on a DVR, even though you shut it off, it's really in standby mode (shows a red timer icon in LED window), waiting for the time to roll around. So when I said I left the DVD and cable box on I meant they were in their proper states, powered and working. But I also manually tested afterward.

[remm]

I use HDMI and it is not an issue.

What cable box do you have?

Now that I think about it, I think previous versions of HDMI had less copyright protections built in....? it might work with HDMI if the HDMI spec being used is older. How new is your HDTV and HDMI cable?

[remm]

So it's official (not that there was any doubt!). Removed the HDMI cable from the cable box to the HDTV and replaced it with component/RCA Audio, and now the DVR records fine with the TV off.

What's funny is when I first got my HDTV I was using component cables and everything was fine. Then a few months back I came across a couple HDMI cables in a box, and swapped out the component/RCA for the HDMI, but I didn't have a reason to record anything until just the other day, so I didn't connect the two.

Funny... the component cables actually make the picture BETTER than the HDMI cable! Looks clearer, smoother, sharper and more vivid, even though my HDMI cable looked good too.... but switching back to component, I can really see a noticeable difference.

Makes you wonder if all the hype about HDMI being better is a snow job to foist copyright crap on us!

[edDV]

So it's official (not that there was any doubt!). Removed the HDMI cable from the cable box to the HDTV and replaced it with component/RCA Audio, and now the DVR records fine with the TV off.

What's funny is when I first got my HDTV I was using component cables and everything was fine. Then a few months back I came across a couple HDMI cables in a box, and swapped out the component/RCA for the HDMI, but I didn't have a reason to record anything until just the other day, so I didn't connect the two.

Funny... the component cables actually make the picture BETTER than the HDMI cable! Looks clearer, smoother, sharper and more vivid, even though my HDMI cable looked good too.... but switching back to component, I can really see a noticeable difference.

Makes you wonder if all the hype about HDMI being better is a snow job to foist copyright crap on us!

Depends on the TV. Usually HDMI is equal to better in quality vs analog component but it does carry all the HDCP overhead.

[jagabo]

ScientificAtlanta model Explorer 4250 HDC

I have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8240 HDC DVR. The s-video output continues working normally when the HDTV (connected via HDMI) is turned off. The component output doesn't work at all if HDMI is in use though.

[remm]

I have a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8240 HDC DVR. The s-video output continues working normally when the HDTV (connected via HDMI) is turned off.

You have a better box, being a DVR.