Bluray ripp to lagarith 720x405 resize VirtualDub

[Klemc]

Hello, here is my first post, i'm French, thanks for the help,

i will ripp BluRay's with DvdFab (movie & eng. audio only), will use PassKey help ?
Once i have the a BD ripp folder on hdd i want to uncompress it with Lagarith, i have the plugins to open .m2ts files in VirtualDub but the x64 version won't, i'll use x86.

In lagarith i don't know what options to enable, and what to choose between colorspaces, wich will output smallest file, wich is better for editing... i will resize the output to a dvd resolution

like 720*405, this video is to be used in an NLE video editor, like Vegas. Sources are all NTSC VC1 24p. For resizing a good plugin for VirtualDub would help perhaps, i don't have one.

Enable null frames
always suggest RGB for output
use multi threading (i've an X3 435)
prevent upsampling when decoding

RGBA
RGB (default)
yuy2
yv12
Reduced resolution (this one ? like i resize the output)

For the video i choose normal fast or full recompress/preocessing mode ?
For the audio is it PcmUncompressed i must choose ? In full procesing mode ?

Other options in VirtualDub to take care of ?

Thanks for all.

Bluray ripp to lagarith 720x405 resize VirtualDub

[manono]

Bluray ripp to lagarith 720x405 resize VirtualDub

No, not 720x405. Not any odd numbers. At least use an even number, and probably at least Mod8 (all numbers divisible by 8). If you're making a DVD, then you want to put it into whichever colorspace your MPEG-2 encoder uses. For example, if for CCE, make the Lagarith AVI in YUY2. And if for DVD, what good is VDub? Use an AviSynth script to do your filtering and to frameserve into your encoder. And learn how to do a proper resize for 16:9 encoding. You probably want to resize straight to 720x480. If this is from a retail DVD, what are you planning to do in Vegas? Just some ideas.

[Klemc]

720x405 was exemple, i don't have the BD right now, i tried once on a dowloaded .m2ts from a tuto, i'm waiting for Amazone shipping my discs. I'm not making a dvd, i need this file to edit the movie by exemple remove/add/displace/add transitions to scenes, but my computer is 880G-HD4250 with X3 2.9ghz not enough powerfull to direct edit HD resolution. I can group the HD and SD in Vegas to work on the SD (uncompressed resized from HD ripp with lagarith), edits are applied to HD at the same time than on SD in background. And finally i can output the file with all modifications done in HD quality full resolution.

I don't know what encoder i'll use when all edits're done, TmpgEncX perhaps.
What about the colorspace "Reduced resolution" in lagarith ?

EDIT :
It will be possible to a new user to learn to write a script for AviSynth in few hours to do that ?
Lagarith can be used with what else application to frameserve ?

Thanks

[manono]

TMPGEnc accepts RGB (24?). You still haven't said what the output format will be, but the chances are good it uses the YV12 colorspace. Anyway, if the source is interlaced there are other considerations that have to be taken into account before resizing. Again, AviSynth scripts are best.

As for Lagarith, the only one from your first batch of 4 I use is the multithreaded one. The only one I use from the second batch is the colorspace I want. I have no idea what reduced resolution does.

[Klemc]

TmpgXpress i can't find what it needs rgb or yuy2.

Output'll be to bluray after vegas edits, perhaps i can use the resized source to output as dvd to have two differents versions. Ntsc 24p means progressive non ? I'll try to understand avs well enough to do a script by my own but i'm not sure if i'll be done.

Reduced resolution didn't work with an avchs m2ts file, gave error about resolution incompatibility if i remelmber, multithreaded option is the only i really need. YUY2 is smaller vs RGB.

[poisondeathray]

Blu-ray is YV12 (4:2:0 chrominance subsampling) . YV12 will be even smaller than YUY2 (4:2:2 subsampled) because it's subsampled farther . It makes no sense to upconvert to lagarith in YUY2 or RGB (4:4:4 no subsampling) , since your source is YV12 to begin with. All you do is waste space and time.

When you import YV12 Lagarith (or uncompressed) - it will be converted to RGB in vegas or tmpg . Both operate in RGB colorspace. But your final formal goal will be YV12. Note each colorspace conversion is lossy (you incur quality loss and rounding errors each time your convert), so minimize the number of conversions and steps you take . You might use lagarith in RGB mode, when exporting from vegas to another program (because you would now be in RGB from vegas, and if you used YV12, you would have extra quality loss) . The point is to try to stay in the same colorspace.

NTSC 24p is actually 23.976 FPS - ( actually the exact number is 24000/1001) . Most retail blu-ray will be this value (although some are 24.0p)

If you are making a DVD, beware of PAL<=>NTSC format issues . For the PAL version, most would do a simple speedup to 25p . Blu-ray is simple, just keep it at 23.976 (24000/1001)

[Klemc]

If Blu-Ray is yuv12, Avchd must be the same.

In fact i don't care to loose quality on this file, it's for using in vegas because if i work on a the full quality BD source my PC will be too slow. If i group the BD quality and the resized files, all editions are active for the two sources( in Vegas). After editing i don't need anymore the uncompressed resized file because i have an HD clone.

RGB is from what i've seen 25% bigger than YUY2, if there's no benefict to make a DVD from this file (preresized by lagarith pass!) compared to a BD to DVD convertion, i don't care to loose quality, because it becomes useless after edit if done and file outputed from Vegas, all choice are about make better perf in Vegas, but if Vegas eats RGB like you say it will be better to use RGB.

I i understand the order tooperrate, :
from Blu-Ray i use lagarith RGB
from Vegas use lagarith RGB
from X i encode to Blu-Ray, the yuy2 wil be automticaly done (avisynth can be used ?).

NTSC 24p is actually 23.976 FPS - ( actually the exact number is 24000/1001) . Most retail blu-ray will be this value (although some are 24.0p)

I agree.

If you are making a DVD, beware of PAL<=>NTSC format issues . For the PAL version, most would do a simple speedup to 25

Yes PAL is 4.xx% faster i think remember from Winipedia.
My BD are NTSC, i'll keep it like it is. I f i make a DVD from BD i'll do it for NTSC.


EDIT+ : i have two empty hard disks, 2*640GO WD black 32mo. One is for OS (Win7u x64) approximately 80GO must be enough. What is better, put the uncompressed/resized/rgb and and .m2ts BD ripp files on the second HDD or the second partition of first HDD ?
I'd put the bigger uncompressed files on the empty HDD w/o OS and .m2ts files on hdd1part2, right ?!

[Klemc]

My computer specs are not good enough to manipulate the .m2ts ripp w/o slowing down :

MB = 880G with HD4250 gpu integrated
CPU = AthlonII x3 435 2.9ghz (now seen as Phenom X4 - 1 core unlocked)
RAM = 2*2go corsair value 1333
HDD = 2*640go 32mo WD black no-raid
23" dvi pva
22" vga

Is he ?

When resizing from BD 1920x1080 to dvd 720x***(480 or 405) resolution, i want the file to be the nearest posisible of original, apart of the resize. if something can improve perf in editing in avisynth filter/plugins, i am open to think about.


In avisynth i can start like ? :

AVCSource or DirectShowSource("C:\Video.dga") ; .dga created by DgAvcDecode
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth\plugins\DGAVCDecode.dll")

ConvertToRGB(matrix="rec709") rec?
-
WavSource("C:\Audio.wav")
.....

It's just a beginning.

[poisondeathray]

When resizing from BD 1920x1080 to dvd 720x***(480 or 405) resolution, i want the file to be the nearest posisible of original, apart of the resize. if something can improve perf in editing in avisynth filter/plugins, i am open to think about.

You would use 720x480 , and keep the letterboxxing. If it's a retail Hollywood BD, AR is probably a lot wider than 16:9 . (probably 2.35:1 is most common)

If converting to SD, most would use rec601 (rec709 for HD)

vid=AVCSource("video.dga")
aud=WavSource("audio.wav")
AudioDub(vid,aud)
ConvertToRGB(matrix="rec601")
LanczosResize(720,480)

I don't understand, are you using these only for a proxy for editing for performance ? If so, don't use lagarith, it's very slow. There are much faster alternatives. If it's a proxy, you don't need lossless., you can use a lossy I-frame intermediate (e.g. all I-frame mpeg2 or DV) . If you still want lossless , even huffyuv or ut video codec are significantly faster than lagarith and scale better with more cores . They are faster, but compression is worse (take more HDD space) . And if you are using as a proxy, you don't need to do matrix conversion

Sources are all NTSC VC1 24p

are you sure VC-1 source? if so, you can't use dgavcindex, you would have to use directshowsource() , or use DGNVTools (not free) if you have Nvidia card .

[Klemc]

It is not a proxy but for editing performance.
I want to a edit an HD movie( BluRay) but my computer is too slow, when grouping twice the same movie in differents quality, i can use the faster source for my computer (SD) and all what is done on it will be done also on HD ; while editing it's advantageous, and necessary in my case.

The better idea is to make an approximately DVD quality ripp from HD ripp (BD .m2ts that'll be his twin in vegas), it must have same lenght exactcly (00.00.00x - x is millisecond), same number of frames & fps, stereo for audio is good, same a/r, all same but resolution, and bitrate it's evident. Did i forgot ? I don't know what container/.ext/codec Vegas will like better to work fast on. Ican say Lagarith idea goodbye and use mpg2 (a/v in same file)

Thanks today i didn't had time to learn avisynth, i must read some pages before...


Sources are retail Hollywood BD i bought "us import" on amazone.uk (link is from ASIN ref. and BD's i receivedtoday correspond) ; and yes it's 2.35.1 or 2.40.1(TV serie) and one is 1.85.1(older us CINE format). Iagree for letterboxxing , for the resolution it's VDud internal resize plugin self calcul when i typed 720( width) it found 405(height) btw 480 needed, don't know why. Perhaps Lagarith is not a solution so easy.

[poisondeathray]

It is not a proxy but for editing performance.
I want to a edit an HD movie( BluRay) but my computer is too slow, when grouping twice the same movie in differents quality, i can use the faster source for my computer (SD) and all what is done on it will be done also on HD ; while editing it's advantageous, and necessary in my case.

This sounds like you are using a proxy . That's what they are used for: ease of editing . When it's time for final render, you swap back to the full quality version, full resolution version

Lagarith is a horrible idea for editing proxy or ease of editing whatever you wish to call it. It is very SLOW to edit.

The better idea is to make an approximately DVD quality ripp from HD ripp (BD .m2ts that'll be his twin in vegas), it must have same lenght exactcly (00.00.00x - x is millisecond), same number of frames & fps, stereo for audio is good, same a/r, all same but resolution, and bitrate it's evident. Did i forgot ? I don't know what container/.ext/codec Vegas will like better to work fast on. Ican say Lagarith idea goodbye and use mpg2 (a/v in same file)

Yes, this sounds like you are using a proxy . You're not using the smaller, low quality version , only to edit and save the edits to the "master" version , correct ? You just want a lower resolution version for editing purposes only , right ?

Sources are retail Hollywood BD i bought "us import" on amazone.uk (link is from ASIN ref. and BD's i receivedtoday correspond) ; and yes it's 2.35.1 or 2.40.1(TV serie) and one is 1.85.1(older us CINE format). Iagree for letterboxxing , for the resolution it's VDud internal resize plugin self calcul when i typed 720( width) it found 405(height) btw 480 needed, don't know why. Perhaps Lagarith is not a solution so easy.

You have to distinguish between square pixel and non-square pixel formats

720x404(405) is a square pixel format. If you crop the letterboxxing , it would be valid with minor aspect ratio error. An exact 1:1 square pixel proxy would be 960x540 , or 640x360 , leaving letterbox intact (because these are exact multiples of 1920x1080, and evenly divisible). 405 or any odd number isn't a good idea - it can cause programs and filters to crash, because many compression schemes use 4x4, 8x8 and 16x16 blocks. manono explained it earlier above. vdub suggested 405, because it's doing the straight math when you have the preserve AR box checkmarked. It's not smart enough to know not to use it.

NTSC doesn't use square pixels. The common SD format it 720x480 (lettbox intact) with 16:9 AR (not using 1:1 square pixels, using 40:33) - this way you have standard NTSC format for DVD as well. In vegas or other editor, you conform the footage to "tell" it or interpret it as 16:9 . The active image area when displayed in a media player retains the orginal correct aspect ratio of 2.35:1 (or whatever the original was)

[Klemc]

[QUOTE]This sounds like you are using a proxy . That's what they are used for: ease of editing . When it's time for final render, you swap back to the full quality version, full resolution version[/QUOTE]

Yes. Idea is the same, but by a different way, here i don't have to swap and i don't know to use a proxy at the time, and it works.

Is a proxy far better or stable or whatever, must i prefer a proxy, because if it takes me days days to apply i prefere keep this easier solution for now.

Yes, this sounds like you are using a proxy . You're not using the smaller, low quality version , only to edit and save the edits to the "master" version , correct ? You just want a lower resolution version for editing purposes only , right ?

Yes i am.
Lower resolution's not for output, edits are for "master" ; once grouped in vegas it's parallelized, Use the HD is too hard for my harsware, so i must work on a SD.

The idea came from someone who disliked to have to swap btw files, he was talking about proxy i think now. I can delete the smaller low quality used only to make editing faster when outputed from and in HD, i don't care, all that matters is to realize anHD output. Lowres file is for help only. YES. I will make a DVD quality version after, from HD outputed/edited one.

You have to distinguish between square pixel and non-square pixel formats

720x404(405) is a square pixel format. If you crop the letterboxxing , it would be valid with minor aspect ratio error. An exact 1:1 square pixel proxy would be 960x540 , or 640x360 , leaving letterbox intact (because these are exact multiples of 1920x1080, and evenly divisible)

NTSC doesn't use square pixels. The common SD format it 720x480 (lettbox intact) with 16:9 AR (not using 1:1 square pixels, using 40:33) - this way you have standard NTSC format for DVD as well. In vegas or other editor, you conform the footage to "tell" it or interpret it as 16:9 . The active image area when displayed in a media player retains the orginal correct aspect ratio of 2.35:1 (or whatever the original was)

Square pixel is used by PC reencoding and is for PC screens i think i remember.

VirtualDub in fact cropped the black bands w/o asking !? Whatever.

640*360 will be too low, i'd prefer 960x540.

Lettbox is a used as the base of DVD resolution if i understand well, it's 720*480 (720*576 in my countryn in France but PAL). A 4/3 dvd is letterboxed w/o black bands and a 16/6 or other is also letterboxed but to keep a/rand resolution of standard Dvd black bands are added. Right !?

I'll ripp a movie now from BD, i used BdInfo to have all infos. To encode in file format we were talking about after letting Lagarith away, from the .m2ts (movie + eng audio only), what tool to use. TmpgEncXpress must be good , but i really don(t know mpg2 parametters, i ever used mp4 or divx before, i'm not good as needed

I go to ripp now, see ya.

EDIT : oops, i'll output in stereo, for HD output i'm talking because edit 5.1 is hard too for me, i think, i can make a try but. So the question is what audio to ripp from BluRay disc, the better or the nearest of 2.1 2.0 stereo. Because there is choices, i'll extract dts-hd because some streams are commentary's...

DTS-HD Master Audio English 0 kbps 5.1-ES / 48 kHz / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1-ES / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)

Dolby Digital EX Audio English 640 kbps 5.1-EX / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB

* Dolby Digital EX Audio English 640 kbps 5.1-EX / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB

Dolby Digital Audio English 224 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps / DN -4dB
Dolby Digital Audio English 224 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps / DN -4dB / Dolby Surround
Dolby Digital Audio English 224 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps / DN -4dB
* DTS Express English 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / 24-bit
* DTS Express English 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / 24-bit

[Klemc]

Hi,

i quote the one who gave me the idea it's parhaps easyly to understant than my explain :

Well, I've found a perfectly good way for me to edit a movie in HD while using very little memory (since I'm editing in 1080p and my computer's actually not strong enough to edit it fluently).

Make two rips from the same source. One DVD-quality, one real quality. Insert them in the project, make a group out of them so they would change in identical way, and then just turn off the video track with HD version. It will still be edited along with the DVD quality version, but you won't require lots of memory for that - the program won't render it.

I find it better than swapping video way or editing in straight HD way.

I ripped some BD, i uploaded BdInfo files on this topic.

[Klemc]

I will convert my BD's that are vc-1 to mpeg2 BD's full resolution and a 720x480 copy mpeg2 DVD quality to work on in Vegas, making a group. Vc-1 is

Resolved !