ATI Radeon capture with MMC vs VirtualDub/wrapper: quality??

[teddymines]

I've been using ATI MMC 7.1 (1.4tbird, win2k, 512mb ddr, radeon 64ddr/vivo) to capture to AVI, then pumping through TMPGEnc VCD template. The results are ok, but I keep hearing about VirtualDub, even in the guides. VirtualDub will not work without some mystery wrapper I cannot find anywhere. WHERE IS THIS WRAPPER????? :x

Question:
Is it worth using VirtualDub + wrapper? Will the quality be that much better? If so, where is this wrapper everyone is talking about?

I tried Huffy and other codecs through MMC and got lots of dropped frames. So far AVI is best. If I stick with MMC, which settings will give me the best files once put through TMPGEnc?

[Bstansbury]

With the system performance that you have you should not be dropping any frames at any time. I would first suggest that you tune your system
and make sure you are not limited in capture by your configuration.

Tuning is basically making sure your system is setup for good DMA, all none essintial programs shut down. To do this I have created a 2nd hardware configuration at startup time. One for normal functions, and the second one for "Video Capture & Editing." In Device MGR, I dissable all non necessary hardware and software. I also set the system to start in diaganostic mode, where in I shut down all programs that would normally startup, use up memory, resources, etc. If I ever get the time I will try and setup a "How to Tune your system" in the tools section of this forum.

One other vary important suggestion, try capturing in MMC 7.X using MPEG-2 formant, I frames only, at aleast 480x480, VBR, 15mbs, 100% motion detection. Once you have this data you can use TMPGen to convert the output into SVCD format. Depending what you need the data for you might just capture in MMC7.x in SVCD format. My system is half the performance, half the memory, and this works for me.

Hope this helps.

[doug1937@hotmail.com]

I agree...stop using AVI and just capture using MMC's MPEG format. I use both MPEG1 and MPEG2 with good effect; better still, the MPEG1s are VCD compliant automatically and the MPEG2s become compliant after a quick muxing with TMPEG (no re-encoding required).

[teddymines]

Amazing difference capturing directly to mpeg1! I capture at 480x720 with the settings Bstansbury suggested, then feed the mpeg through TMPGEnc for some minor frame cropping and sharpening.

When I first started playing with VCD, I watched my first VCD and thought, "Is this as good as it gets?" Now I believe the quality is real close to the hi-8mm source.

Thanks for your help! :D

[presto]

I tried the settings mentioned by Bstansbury. When I tried to open it in Tempgenc and get an error message.

I really want to be able to use MMC to capture and then go right to burning with Nero. I'm not interested in tweaking for the ultimate settings I just want something that works well and is quick (Crazy Dream Huh?).

I would prefer to use mpg2 because when you burn in Nero using mpg1 the thumbnails on the index page are not clickable.

Thanks for any help

[kc5hwb]

I use MMC with the ATI card and capture straight to MPEG1 for VCD compliance. Quality is pretty good. I also use TMPG to crop and sharpen. Tried Virtualdub, but all it does is AVIs, so it is not for me.

Also use Nero 5.5.4.0 for burning VCDs. Is there a way to create a menu that is clickable in the DVD player? Haven't found that option in Nero yet....thought maybe it was a plugin that I don't have.

Any ideas?

[doug1937@hotmail.com]

KC, why do you crop? what do you crop?

[ggtronic]

i think you need nero v5.5.6.4 or higher to get the menu working
in Svcd format

[marsmayhem]

I also thought I had to capture using VirtualDub to get the best results. Truth is, you don't. VDUB doesn't support the Radeon driver. VDUB needs a VFW (Video For Windows) compatible driver - Radeon uses the newer WDM (Windows Driver Model?) driver.

But this doesn't matter and it doesn't mean you can't use VDUB (or shouldn't) in your capture workflow. The VDUB author himself says it's more a postprocessor than a capturing application. You can use MMC to capture to AVI, and even pick and choose your codec you want to use to capture the AVI with (yup, even DivX if you want to). The AVI can then be pulled into VDUB and run through the gamut of filters and options that it offers to manipulate your capture.

And VDUB supports frameserving, so you could pass the file onto TMPGENC and encode from the AVI to whatever format you desire (S/X/VCD/etc.). It just takes time. But the VDUB process is (supposedly) useful to clean up crappy tapes that a direct capture to MPEG would not capture as nicely.

As always, everyone's mileage varies. I've got the RADEON VIVO 64MB DDR, and I'm still playing around with capture settings. Capturing to MPEG1/2 directly *is* sweet (because of the nice onboard encoding chip), and if your source is clean (like direct from cable/satellite), you'll have few problems (I've had some nice tests capturing directly off cable through a VCR tuner). It's the crappy VHS tapes out there that (might) benefit from VDUB's "magic"...

Good luck.

[herbapou]

I have a ATI RAdeon VIVO DDR 64 too and I have been playing with all kind of capture settings to make VCDs and XVCD`s and here is what i found:

First of all capturing straight to the VCD format will get you the worst possible results but It will save you a step...

What I recommend:

Size: Capture at the same resolution has the output will be. I have found that resizing the image in the encoding step introduce blur and you will end up with an image not has sharp has it could be.

Codec settings: You DONT need to capture to a uncompress format to have a good quality MASTER.

With ATI use this: VCD resolution use 2500 kbs CBR. At 480x480 use 3000 CBR and motion estimate and 100% and de-interlace. 640x480 use 4000 kbts CBR. Never use VBR when capturing unless you have some kind of quality base settings (like with DivX)

With Vdub use this: Capture to DiVX AVI with VBR quality base, quality at 100%. Use the reduce noise option in video if your capturing from an already mpeg-2 encode broadcast source like digital cable or satellite TV. The is the best choice. The output can be re-process in Vdub to make mpeg-4 2 pass VBR DIVX movies or process in TMPGEnc to make VCD, XVCD, SVCD, ....

I never make compliant VCD but XVCD with those settings:
2 pass VBR, min: 250, avg: 1150, Max 2000. Choose reduce ghost filter and choose soften block noise in Quantize Matrix.

[herbapou]

This is reminding me of a problem I have when capturing with the ATI software:

When i choose DiVX has an AVI codec, i CANT set the DiVX settings, so I never use ATI soft to capture cause of this...

Any way I can fix this??

[falconx]

:-? Hi people can any body tell me if the ATI AIW Radeon 8500dv has a better quality for capturing then the ATI Radeon VIVO DDR 64 ?

[boggle]

i am trying to transfer video via my Raion allinwonder card using MMC 7.1 but i want to save the results to DVD via my DVD burner what settings should i use to Capture and save so its DVD Player Compatible?
Any help would be appreciated

[VideoJedi]

I have a Radeon 64 DDR also and capture in Win98. I am able to capture in VirtualDub also, but am not sure why it works for me and not others (I did n ot do anything special during setup). I cannot capture in any software in Win2000 server though (unless I turn off terminal services and reboot). Thanks for the tips. If my DVD player can take that high bitrate, I'll need to make those XVCDs.

[SingSing]

VirtualDub will not work without some mystery wrapper I cannot find anywhere. WHERE IS THIS WRAPPER?????

Maybe you shoudl try again in win98 SE.