Is this the end? Mixing filetypes in Sony Vegas

[storhuvve]

Hi!

After nearly three weeks spent ripping my hair out, I have finally decided to give in and ask for help. There, I said it. I need help. I am in desperate need for help. I really been trying to solve this myself, but it’s just to much information to process. I am lost in the jungle of Project Properties, Encoding settings, Pixel Aspect Ratios, Media Properties and DVD´s. I knew to little regarding this in the beginning. I reckon that most of you guys are more educated in this area then myself, and I now wish that someone will find it in their heart to help me out. Thanks so much in advance.

Ok, here we go;

I am editing a movie. A skateboarding movie, to be precise. Source material comes from a bunch of people, and is filmed with a couple different cameras. Source material therefore contains multiple file formats. This consists of mainly four types, by witch I easily can combine three of them, but the third is REALLY KILLING ME.

I work in Sony Vegas 9. My final output will be Standard DVD and Streamed Vimeo. My problem is only visible on DVD. I have been outputting a couple of test mp4´s. All of them have been pretty much ok.

These are my four types of source material:

PAL DV
(filmed with my own camera)
Shows up in G-spot as;
Lower field first / Pixel Aspect Ratio = 1.067 / 720*576 / 25.000 fps

MPEG 2
(filmed M2TS with my friend’s camera, converted since my computer couldn’t handle it.)
Shows up in G-spot as;
Lower field first / Pixel Aspect Ratio = 1.067 / 720*576 / 25.000 fps

PAL DV
(filmed with the camera that’s later will be causing all the trouble)
Shows up in G-spot as;
Lower field first / Pixel Aspect Ratio = 1.067 / 720*576 / 25.000 fps

>>> PAL DV WIDESCREEN
(This is the type who I just CANT fit with the others)
Lower field first / Pixel Aspect Ratio = 1.422 / 720*576 / 25.000 fps

Here is a sample of said format:
http://www.ganget.net/sample.avi

-------

After working pretty much non-stop for all to long, I can now easily fit the three first filetypes into the same timeline in Vegas. I can edit them, and put out a decent Standrad DVD and make a pretty ok mp4. BUT, then comes filetype number four. Feels like I have been trying every last setting. Mp4 seems ok, but I just can´t fit it with the rest of the files on a DVD. Filetype four clips seem to have some sort of Interlace error, and vertical lines are all to visable in clips witch contains motion. Ive been trying the Reduce Interlace flicker option in Vegas. It leaves me with no lines, but with a blur and a motion studder that I just cannot live with. Sadly.

Another problem appears when I try to fix it. Thing is, since I didn’t film the clips myself or own the camera myself, I don’t now much about these files. I just found out the camera model, witch is a Sony HDR–HC5E. The first week of trying to solve my problem I was therefore sure that my issue steamed from it being a HDV camera hence producing 1080i clips. I am not so sure about that any longer. Judging by what Gspot, Vegas and TMPGenc tells me, the file seem to be Widescreen DV, same field order as regular DV´s but different Pixel aspect ratio. How is this even possible? I guess that my friends have captured the footage in some strange way.

I would be forever grateful if someone could tell me just why I can’t fit these files into my DVD. I have been trying nearly every combination of settings. Ive been messing with Project Properties, Media Properties and Encoding Settings in Vegas. Nothing Works. Absolutely nothing. Where does the lines come from?

(For those familiar with Vegas)
1. What should my project setting be?
2. Am I recommended to mess with the individual clip settings in the Project Media Window?
3. What should my rendering MPEG2 for DVD settings be?

Thanks soooo much in advance. I love you all for even reading this! If someone answers (and MAYBE eventually help me solve it) I would probably explode in pure happiness. If more information is needed, just tell me and I find it out.

Have a nice day!

/Storhuvve

[ricardouk]

Hi, i'm not an Sony vegas expert but one quick solution would be to convert the file that is giving you problems to a lossless format that is "vegas friendly".

I know it doesnt help you in the way you wanted but its worth a try

[Abas-Avara]

The problem is that the 4rd footage has another aspect ratio, but I see you self figured it out.

The first 3 film like this (4:3)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Aspect-ratio-4x3.svg

The 4rd like this {16:9, only stretched to 4:3)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Aspect-ratio-16x9.svg

And about the interlacing, interlace is normal. The DVD player (not on your computer) will de-interlace it automatically.
If you play with VLC media player on computer you can also manually deinterlace (rightclick - interlace - bob).

If you want to keep the right aspect ratios, you could make a individual footage of the 4rd camera.
On the DVD you can create it then like a chapter.

This is all I know, if you want to make 1 clip off it, I dont have much experience with it.

Wiki page about aspect ratio's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_%28image%29

[aedipuss]

DVavi widescreen is a proper DV format. it is the same pixel dimensions as regular DVavi but with a flag to note it has wider pixels. if you were to convert it to square pixel avi it would be around 1020x576.

for vegas to know how to use it, right click on the file in the assets box. click properties and change the pixel aspect ratio to pal dv widescreen.

if the rest of what you are putting on dvd is SD 4:3 then what i might do to the ws dvavi is pan and scan it in vegas to 4:3 and render it out to a new DVavi in 4:3. it would crop off the sides but will look better than black bars top and bottom showing up when ever that footage is used.

[edDV]

...

Another problem appears when I try to fix it. Thing is, since I didn’t film the clips myself or own the camera myself, I don’t now much about these files. I just found out the camera model, witch is a Sony HDR–HC5E. The first week of trying to solve my problem I was therefore sure that my issue steamed from it being a HDV camera hence producing 1080i clips. I am not so sure about that any longer. Judging by what Gspot, Vegas and TMPGenc tells me, the file seem to be Widescreen DV, same field order as regular DV´s but different Pixel aspect ratio. How is this even possible? I guess that my friends have captured the footage in some strange way.

A Sony HDR-H5CE HDV camcorder can shoot either 1440x1080i 16:9 or in standard DV format (4:3 or 16:9).

Even if shot 1440x1080i 16:9, it can be output as 720x576 DV format in wide 16:9 or letterbox 4:3.

I assusme your 4th file is DV wide. Other than pixel aspect ratio, it otherwise matches your other DV files. . You have choices how this will appear in your production.

1. Letterboxed. Other than asthetic mismatch, this requires Vegas to deinterlace and resize vertically which is bad for quality.

2. Pan/Scan as suggested by aedipuss . That is what the pros would do and I also recommend this. It is important that you maintain 576 vertical lines to preseve interlace. Otherwise you will have vertical scaling loss. Just H-pan a 768x576 (4:3) window over a square pixel 1024x576 (16:9) project time line.*

3. Display as square pixel 720x576 (1.0 square aspect in clip properties). The picture will appear horizontally squeezed ~30% in perspective but requires no processing. 1024 virtual horizontal pixels get squeezed down to 720 but interlace is preserved. You often see this cheat used in sloppy production.


* The good thing about Vegas is you can have multiple instances of Vegas projects open. For example the main 720x576i 4:3 DV project and a 1024x576i square pixel project for pan/scan processing the 4th camera clips. These would be exported as 4:3 720x576i DV clips.

[storhuvve]

First of all...THANK YOU. Thank yo so much! I am fixing this now, no doubt. Just need to figure out witch way to go.


As for now, this option kinda intrigues me.

"1. Letterboxed. Other than asthetic mismatch, this requires Vegas to
deinterlace and resize vertically which is bad for quality."

I don´t fully understand it, not at all, but gut-feeling tells me Its the way to go. I agree that Pan/Scan most certainly is the best solution. Thing is, I am talking around 400 clips here, and the thought of working them all separately fills me with great agony.

Sorry for posting even more silly questions, but the option displayed above requires me to do exactly what? Set the project properties to Interlace / Blend - and then render a MPEG 2 Lower Field first? Set the Media properties on the Widescreen clips to Interlace? Once again, pardon. But my head is really filled with to much info here, and I know just to little to make something useful out of it.

If the Letterbox/De-Interlace option is highly recommended to stay way from, or if it will mess up my clips to much, Are they any other ways of converting the clips to a workable format with the regular Pixel aspect ratio? I monitored a 20 hour session with TMPGenc, making the clips MPEG2´s (mild ODC doesnt allow me to leave an apartment while a computer is running) just to be left with a whole bunch of audio sync damaged new clips. Heard that TPMGenc does this sometimes.

Thanks again! Have the best day ever!

[edDV]

Letterboxing a single clip is easy in Vegas. Just right click on selected Camera #4 clip on the timeline. First select "Create Subclip" to isolate that clip from others from that capture file.

Click on image below to see full size.



Then in clip Properties identify Pixel Aspect Ratio as "1.48568 (PAL DV Wide)" instead of "1.0926 (PAL DV)". When you select OK, that clip only goes to letterbox as shown here.

[edDV]

If the Letterbox/De-Interlace option is highly recommended to stay way from, or if it will mess up my clips to much, Are they any other ways of converting the clips to a workable format ...

In Vegas, the deinterlace for that clip is automatic when you specify letterbox. It follows the deinterlace method specified in your project settings. To review or change your project settings, click the leftmost box in the program monitor window (see mouse arrow below), then look at "Deinterlace Method".

The choices are "none", "blend fields" or "interpolate fields". See which looks best to you. I usually use "interpolate fields".



If I get time this weekend, I'm going to look at pan/scan methods.

[storhuvve]

THANK. YOU. SO. MUCH!

Seriuosly, I did it, and it was one of the most awesome moments ever. I solved it with the DeInterlace method, and surprisingly , I even understood (kinda) what I was doing. Never could have done it without you guys. I fully understand the logic behind it, but all the different settings confused me to a point where I could not see clear. Thanks thanks thanks.

Just to set it straight;
When choosing DeInterlace method in Vegas, the program only messes with the clips that doesnt add up, right? In this case the 1,48568 pixel aspect ratio ones?

Also, (and this is not totally super ordinary) but when exporting a mainconcept mp4 (witch I gather is the best rendering setting for streaming and "put-filing"), should I just set the project properties to None: progressive and export a Non-Interlaced file? Or is it recommended that I keep my field order? I know Progressive scan is preferable for computers, so this question is probably unnecessary.

Once again. Thanks so much for helping me out with this. You guys rule!

Have a nice day!