Capturing from a DV camera, framerate + aspect ratio issues

[CursedLemon]

Hi there. I'm new here and don't know much about digital video other than what VDub tells me. I was hoping someone could help me

So I'm capturing 16:9 videos off of my Sony DV-tape camera by Firewire, using Virtual Dub. When I watch the videos on my camera, they have that smoothness to them that one would expect from a just-taken video - I don't know if I can describe this as "framerate" but I hope you understand what I mean. When I capture them using VDub, and then watch them in Windows Media Player, they retain that smoothness and the correct aspect ratio. I know that Windows Media Player "does things" to the video to accomplish this.

However, when I watch them in VLC or load them back into VDub, they turn back into 720x480 and have that choppy, lower-framerate look to them, as well as showing the interlacing, but I expected that.

So uh...how can I get these videos to actually be read as 16:9 files, as well as retain that smooth quality to them?

Also, when I capture with Windows Movie Maker, VLC says it's an unrecognizable format.

[Baldrick]

Try instead WinDV to capture/record the DV. Or it should also with with WIndows Movie Maker and be sure to export as dv-avi.

And virtualdub will probably show it as 720x480 as they are in that format but with a 16:9 flag.

I do not why you have vlc problems though...but if you are going play these files on a computer I would reconvert to smaller compressed format like avi divx/xvid or wmv using for example Virtualdub, WIndows Movie Maker etc. Then can you set the resolution or aspect ratio.

[CursedLemon]

Try instead WinDV to capture/record the DV. Or it should also with with WIndows Movie Maker and be sure to export as dv-avi.

And virtualdub will probably show it as 720x480 as they are in that format but with a 16:9 flag.

I do not why you have vlc problems though...but if you are going play these files on a computer I would reconvert to smaller compressed format like avi divx/xvid or wmv using for example Virtualdub, WIndows Movie Maker etc. Then can you set the resolution or aspect ratio.

The same thing happens with WinDV, sadly.

I'm most concerned about preserving the video quality. I'd like to be able to burn files like this to a DVD, and having that smoothness to the quality would be great if I didn't have to aspect ratio problems when I burn it to the DVD - otherwise I would just burn the raw video file. Of course, I'd still like them to be playable correctly on the computer, as I might want to upload one to Youtube or something, and I don't want a 16:9 file to end up in a 4:3 ratio all scrunched together.

[Gavino]

I'm most concerned about preserving the video quality. I'd like to be able to burn files like this to a DVD, and having that smoothness to the quality would be great if I didn't have to aspect ratio problems when I burn it to the DVD

Are you talking about a DVD-Video or just copying the file as a data file onto a DVD?
In the first case, you just need to specify the 16:9 AR flag when converting to MPEG2.
In the second, the aspect ratio flag should be preserved as you are merely copying the file.

[creamyhorror]

When I capture them using VDub, and then watch them in Windows Media Player, they retain that smoothness and the correct aspect ratio. I know that Windows Media Player "does things" to the video to accomplish this.

However, when I watch them in VLC or load them back into VDub, they turn back into 720x480 and have that choppy, lower-framerate look to them, as well as showing the interlacing, but I expected that.

Post a sample of the raw capture and the output from VDub.

[jagabo]

VirtualDub is not optimized as a media player. Don't expect it to work as well as a media player for viewing video files.

Your videos are 720x480 with a flag that tells media players to display the video with a 16:9 aspect ratio. VirtualDub ignores the DAR flag and displays the video pixel-for-pixel so you see every pixel in the frame mapped 1:1 with pixels on your monitor -- exactly what this type of editor should do. Otherwise you wouldn't know what artifacts are caused by scaling the video vs what artifacts are in the video itself. If you really want to see the video at the correct DAR right click on the frame in VirtualDub and select that option.

If you find other editors or DVD conversion/authoring software doesn't recognize the 16:9 DAR flag, or if the 16:9 DAR flag somehow gets lost in your processing, all you have to do is override what that software detected. This usually done by right clicking on the video in the timeline and selecting Aspect Ratio, or Properties, or some such.

[CursedLemon]

I'm most concerned about preserving the video quality. I'd like to be able to burn files like this to a DVD, and having that smoothness to the quality would be great if I didn't have to aspect ratio problems when I burn it to the DVD

Are you talking about a DVD-Video or just copying the file as a data file onto a DVD?
In the first case, you just need to specify the 16:9 AR flag when converting to MPEG2.
In the second, the aspect ratio flag should be preserved as you are merely copying the file.

DVD video, yes. Will that not be a problem?

Post a sample of the raw capture and the output from VDub.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=YkxMaUNQYWI3bUEwTVE9PQ

The first is the raw capture, the second is run through VDub with just interlacing. If you play both through WMP, you can see the processed file loses that "smoothness" to it. Also I can't seem to find anything related to the 16:9 aspect ratio in VDub, so the processed video doesn't seem like it has that 16:9 flag.

VirtualDub is not optimized as a media player. Don't expect it to work as well as a media player for viewing video files.

Your videos are 720x480 with a flag that tells media players to display the video with a 16:9 aspect ratio. VirtualDub ignores the DAR flag and displays the video pixel-for-pixel so you see every pixel in the frame mapped 1:1 with pixels on your monitor -- exactly what this type of editor should do. Otherwise you wouldn't know what artifacts are caused by scaling the video vs what artifacts are in the video itself. If you really want to see the video at the correct DAR right click on the frame in VirtualDub and select that option.

If you find other editors or DVD conversion/authoring software doesn't recognize the 16:9 DAR flag, or if the 16:9 DAR flag somehow gets lost in your processing, all you have to do is override what that software detected. This usually done by right clicking on the video in the timeline and selecting Aspect Ratio, or Properties, or some such.

So I'm guessing this somehow means that I'm not capturing my video in a "native" 16:9 format?

[poisondeathray]

There are no problems here, everything is behaving as it should

The raw capture is interlaced 29.97 frames per second or 59.94 fields per second, your processed sample has been re-encoded with xvid and single rate deinterlaced to 29.97 fps, not bobbed to 59.94 - this explains the "smoothness" difference

When you make your DVD, leave it interlaced and set 16:9 flag and everything will be fine (use the original source , not the re-encoded xvid video)

If you wanted to , you could have set the DAR in the xvid configuration to 16:9

[CursedLemon]

There are no problems here, everything is behaving as it should

The raw capture is interlaced 29.97 frames per second or 59.94 fields per second, your processed sample has been re-encoded with xvid and single rate deinterlaced to 29.97 fps, not bobbed to 59.94 - this explains the "smoothness" difference

When you make your DVD, leave it interlaced and set 16:9 flag and everything will be fine (use the original source , not the re-encoded xvid video)

If you wanted to , you could have set the DAR in the xvid configuration to 16:9

Ah, I see.

Well alright, thank you everybody.

[CursedLemon]

Oh, also, is there any way to preserve that field blending when I process the videos?

[poisondeathray]

Oh, also, is there any way to preserve that field blending when I process the videos?

Do you mean interlacing? Because "field blending" is an entirely different thing

Any re-encoding using a lossy format will result in quality loss. Deinterlacing will result in quality loss. Just archive the originals

What are you trying to do? What do you mean by "process"?

If you mean keep it interlaced just keep the originals. If you want to encode interlaced, then do so. If you want to bob-deinterlace, then do so...If you are making a DVD you have to re-encode to DVD-Video or MPEG2. I don't understand your question...

Here is your video bob deinterlaced and encoded with xvid/mp3; notice that the framerate is 59.94, not 29.97. It should play with the 16/9 flag properly in vlc, or kmplayer
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1umywiyzwmi

[CursedLemon]

Oh, also, is there any way to preserve that field blending when I process the videos?

Do you mean interlacing? Because "field blending" is an entirely different thing

Any re-encoding using a lossy format will result in quality loss. Deinterlacing will result in quality loss. Just archive the originals

What are you trying to do? What do you mean by "process"?

If you mean keep it interlaced just keep the originals. If you want to encode interlaced, then do so. If you want to bob-deinterlace, then do so...If you are making a DVD you have to re-encode to DVD-Video or MPEG2. I don't understand your question...

Here is your video bob deinterlaced and encoded with xvid/mp3; notice that the framerate is 59.94, not 29.97. It should play with the 16/9 flag properly in vlc, or kmplayer
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1umywiyzwmi

I wasn't familiar with the concept of "fields vs. frames", though, and I got the impression that the "smoothness" to my video was because of the two fields per frame thing - whereas when I process the video, that is no longer the case?

The video you gave back to me is pretty much EXACTLY what I was hoping to accomplish. How did you go about doing that?

[poisondeathray]

That is bob-deinterlacing (double rate deinterlacing, as opposed to the single rate that you included in your sample). Don't do this for DVD, keep it interlaced. You only do this for progressive displays, like PC.

I used a higher quality deinterlacer though avisynth, but the newest versions of virtualdub have a decent one called yadif built in, and would probably be easier for you to use if you don't know how to use avisynth

I assume you know how to use xvid and audio compression in vdub already... (the clip you uploaded had original audio, not mp3)

[CursedLemon]

That is bob-deinterlacing (double rate deinterlacing, as opposed to the single rate that you included in your sample). Don't do this for DVD, keep it interlaced. You only do this for progressive displays, like PC.

I used a higher quality deinterlacer though avisynth, but the newest versions of virtualdub have a decent one called yadif built in, and would probably be easier for you to use if you don't know how to use avisynth

I assume you know how to use xvid and audio compression in vdub already... (the clip you uploaded had original audio, not mp3)

Excellent. Thank you very much. I suppose I'll make two versions of these videos, one for DVD and one for PC (yay for extra hard drives).

[Cornucopia]

...or, Just make one for DVD (leaving the interlacing), as DVD player software on PCs already do a very good job of deinterlacing themselves, thank you very much.

Scott