If Flash now supports H.264. . .

[sdsumike619]

I read that Flash now supports H.264 encoded videos. So if I encode a video from Sony Vegas 8.0 to its AVC MP4, which is H.264, does that mean I can point that MP4 file directly to the online FLV player? Or do I recall reading something about "putting it into an FLV "container" ?

In other words, what is the process for making an MP4 playable in a Flash video player (online) ?

[poisondeathray]

Yes, it will work fine. But I'm not sure if vegas places the moov atom at the beginning , which means it might not play right away until completely downloaded. I know if you use mp4box (yamb) to mux into .mp4 it automatically does this

You still have to set it up on the server side correctly. Unless you mean upload to some hosting sites like youtube (they re-encode anyway)

[sdsumike619]

How can you mux it into mp4 if it's already an mp4?

[poisondeathray]

Not sure what you're getting at?

You just re-mux it into a new .mp4 container using yamb (the gui is simple to use). It's like putting a baseball in a shoebox, then putting it into another, sexier shoebox.

If you are hosting your own videos & website, there are free players like flowplayer, jw media player that you can use & embed

[sdsumike619]

I have Yamb. Which option do I go to?
Creation --> Click to create an MP4 file with multiple audio, video, subtitle, and chapter streams
?
I did that; now do I just rename the file to FLV?

[Baldrick]

Nope, you don't have to put it in flv. FLash can play the mp4 directly.

[sdsumike619]

Ok, we shall see what happens. In my opinion, the quality did not look nearly as good as encoding first to MP4, and then to FLV with Flix Pro. But I've also read that Vegas's H.264 encoder is not the best. However, I wouldn't know what the best settings to use would be anyways. Or which encoder to use...

[Soopafresh]

Any app which uses x264.exe will create high quality h264 mp4s.

AutoMKV uses it. Good app, you'll have to experiment to get the best quality/file size ratio.

[sdsumike619]

Thanks I am downloading AutoMKV now; hopefully it has some presets I can work from?

[sdsumike619]

I went from having practically no options, to being overloaded with options

[sdsumike619]

This program is sooooo good that I can't even find where to set the bitrate

[sdsumike619]

And I can't get it to encode anything. Looks like it starts, and then a billion command prompt windows pop up. AutoMKV is the most useless piece of software I've seen so far.

[poisondeathray]

Most people find handbrake, ripbot264, xvid4psp easier GUIs to use for x264. MeGUI is a bit harder to use but more comprehensive. I think all of them use mp4box, so no need to use yamb as a second step

Vegas' h.264 encoder isn't very good. It's is a crippled version of Mainconcepts' licensed encoder, and the Sony version isn't much better. I posted some comparison examples in a thread a while back. Many people use a lossless intermediate (e.g. lagarith or huffyuv) so they can take advantage of other encoders instead of Vegas' POS h.264 encoders. Debugmode frameserver allows you to frameserve out without using the intermediate (works with Vegas 7,8,9)

The problem with x264 is you need some understanding of the setting to get the best results; i.e. you would use different settings depending on the bitrate, source type. e.g. a cartoon would use different settings than a Hollywood action movie.

[minidv2dvd]

mediacoder, if you take the time to figure it out, is a nice general purpose encoder.

the sony avc(h264) encoder in vegas pro 9 isn't bad at all.

[Soopafresh]

And I can't get it to encode anything. Looks like it starts, and then a billion command prompt windows pop up. AutoMKV is the most useless piece of software I've seen so far.

It is a lot of options. You'll like it once you get more familiar with h264 encoding. It's great at keeping file sizes small.

Try Xvid4psp instead.

[poisondeathray]

the sony avc(h264) encoder in vegas pro 9 isn't bad at all.

I STRONGLY disagree. Sure, quality is an objective attribute, but when the encoder is that bad, I cannot recommend using the Vegas h.264 encoders to anyone in good conscience.

Even the gimped bundled Mainconcept h.264 encoder is better than the bundled "Sony AVC" encoder. Neither allows you to use AVC High Profile for SD video (if you use HD resolution, Sony allows High) , Sony has no pass control (1 pass ABR), or control over reference frames, neither has control over b-frames (important for tweaking for flash and "playability" with some Flash player front ends), but at least Mainconcept uses some b-frames (you just have no control over them), Sony has all I/P with zero b-frames, and as a result has lower compressibility and lower quality evident in lower bitrate flash type scenarios.

I've tested these on multiple sources, multiple settings and have come to the firm conclusion that both are pure crap. Here are some representative framegrab samples (trust me, every frame is worse than x264 encoded samples). Don't take my word for it , do some testing on your own, I'm 100% sure you will come to the same conclusion, as many others have. I used the same script and a lossless intermediate, so there is no "funny business" going on here.

Example from 300 Apple Movie Trailer: notice how even at this lowish bitrate, x264 is able to retain some of the grain, but the other h264 implementations look "smeary"

Original


Sony Vegas AVC 1000kbps


Sony Vegas Mainconcept AVC 1000kbps, 5ref, 2pass VBR


x264 1000kbps, 5ref, 2pass VBR



Example from Planet Earth; again notice how x264 is able to retain detail, but the other h.264 implementations tend to oversmooth

Original


Sony Vegas AVC 1000kbps


Sony Vegas Mainconcept 1000kbps 2pass VBR 5ref


x264 1000kbps 2pass VBR 5ref

[minidv2dvd]

ok. but for what i use the sony avc encoder for it works just fine. 6mbps HD 1280x720 files with aac audio for youtube and 16mbps blu-ray transport streams with 5ch ac3. never tried to squish anything to 1000kbps and make it usable. for that i use sorensen squeeze.

[poisondeathray]

@minidv2dvd - true, the inadequacies are less obvious at higher bitrates, but they are still there (and obvious if you have a high quality source). The same video 720p 6Mbps will look significantly clearer, crisper & better using x264 than any of Vegas's h.264 implementations. I did testing at all ranges, up to 17Mbps 1080p for bluray etc... If you want I can post some more examples at those bitrate and dimension ranges, even objective testing like PSNR, SSIM values concur

I hope I don't sound too negative or antagonistic, I just hate to see people use such a bad encoder. I'm not trying to sell anything, just sharing my experiences. Don't get me started on "sorensen squeeze" which is terrible. I think that was discussed in another thread But if you're happy with it then by all means!

Cheers

[minidv2dvd]

no that's ok, i have many other encoders also almost all my editing is done in vegas pro9 and using the tools included, if they produce "acceptable" results, then the amount of time encoding to an intermediate format and then re-encoding with another program to get to the final result is not a good use of my time. most of my work is as the nym implies miniDV&HDV tape to dvd. with some requests for youtube HD material.

i use squeeze for on2 vp6 "fast-start" flvs when needed, to put the mov atom up front. squeeze is pretty adjustable i'd give it that much.

for x264 encoding i like to use mediacoder as the front-end.