Custom Format size prob

[csaag]

w Aver TV98/Virtual Dub (running Win 98/athlon 1600+)

Any capture I try with the custom format size greater than X by 240
(I can change X ok, but when I try to increase past 240 I get problems)
causes a message to pop up telling me to switch to preview mode when I have Overlay selected.
If I change to preview it will record but the quality is noticeably worse with very jagged edges everywhere. How can I get the type of quality at 320x240 in Overlay mode in a higher mode, eg 400x300 or 640x480?

Also, for capturing to make a VCD, to play on my TV, what is the best capture size to use?
thanks

[csaag]

followup - there is something on the virtualdub website about the > 240 issue. It suggessted turning off overlay & preview (done by selecting again whatever mode is checked- although if you were last in overlay mode the program still thinks you're in overlay mode. I had to go to preview then turn off preview - must be a bug)
Anyway I did this and the quality was still lousy. May have to see if something other than VirtualDub (using VFW drivers) does anything different. Any suggestions (other than PowerVCR3 - don't have $100 free to spend on it)
thanks

[gll99]

look on the left under other..tools...capture

virtualvcr is pretty good

[gll99]

Sorry I just noticed! you are running win98 with vfw drivers. virtualvcr will need you to install wdm drivers. I have the tv98 and win98se also but use wdm drivers. To get around the limit without switching to wdm drivers just do a custom capture in vdub. You can choose any setting.

I think for vfw drivers there is also an app called freevcr just look where I said before.

[csaag]

Hi, thanks for those programs. FYI I was doing a custom capture. I can select a height > 240. It's when I try to start a capture I get the message saying it can't do it in overlay mode.

[csaag]

I tried AVI_IO and FreeVcr with the same results - terrible looking video whenever the height is > 240. I'm using the latest VFW drivers from the Aver web site and the video card is a Radeon 7500 64mb DDR.
Any input appreciated!

[medievil]

As I Understand it, you are getting black lines right?? This is Normal for video over @40 scan lines. It's called interlace. it's not recommended to capture to your final output (Divx, Mpeg, etc...) capture to a lossless codec , Mainconcept Dv codec is my favorite. then re encode to your final output and you won't see any lines.
I personally capture @ 720*480 with the mainconcept codec through a Wintv PCI Capture card with no frame loss. Then re encode with CCE (1pass is all you need unless you are capturing from VHS/.TV, Satelite Doesn't need more than 1)
the whole process takes less than @x the Show/Video/movie length
If the video is 90 minutes then it takes < 3 hours to comple the encode from capture to final product.
And the Results are near DVD quality.

[gll99]

There is one more trick with virtualdub.

Custom Capture at 352x480 and then use vertical reduction to put it back to 240. My caps used to look very good with vdub when I used vfw drivers like you.

I can't give you the exact settings cause I use wdm drivers and the capture page will not open for me in vdub so I can't see the settings anymore.

With win98se its wdm or vfw drivers but not both at once.

[csaag]

I'm not getting black lines, what I get is a lot of jagged edges on any type of movement (i.e camera movement or a person moving around). No lost frames, no increase in CPU usage. If i'm taking a still shot the picture looks ok, but once movement is introduced is were the problems start. Sorry for not explaining it properly. I have the VIA chipset on my ABIT board with their latest drivers; maybe it's an issue with those chips. I just saw something on the Aver site about using pentiums.
I also noticed some info on the > 240 issue on the Vdub & IUVcr sites but they weren't too specific.

The IuVcr site mentioned that the WDM drivers are more 'modern' than the VFW drivers, but his program is geared towards Win2000 while I have Win98. I can try that vertical reduction you mentioned (exactly what button controls that?) I can also try going back to the WDM drivers and seeing how that goes with either Vdub or VirtualVcr.
Thanks for your help.

[Waylander076]

Hi

Having followed this thread I had the same problems as you with
a custom capture format.
Same scenario, Athlon 850, Win98, VfW drivers on a winTV PCI card.

The jagged lines you describe are interlacing.
Any capture size over * x 240 (NTSC) or * x 288 (PAL)
will show these lines.

You can either cap at * x 240 or * x 288 and have no interlace lines
showing as only one field of the picture is being displayed.

Or you can do what I do with my caps.
Set the custom resolution (in my case 480x576), turn OFF overlay in VirtualDub and switch PREIVEW on.
Select your desired frame rate in my case 25fps,with audio at 44Khz, select your compression codec in my case MJPEG with a high quality
setting, then select your capture file.
Then from the file menu select 'enable segmented capture'.
Then simply start your capture.

Using this method I can quite happily capture a 100min movie with
no frame drops.

After your cap is finished just use the de-interlace filter in VDub and resave the file (again using 'Save segmented AVI'), then just frameserve
to an encoder of your choice.

This method has made some great SVCD's from old VHS tapes for me.

If you're going to encode to VCD, you can use the above method
but just resize the output to 320x240 NTSC or 352x288 PAL
when you either save the cleaned up AVI or get the encoder to resize
it during the final encode.
Alternatively you could just capture at VCD res 320x240 NTSC or 352x288PAL

Hope the above is of some use
Waylander

[csaag]

You guys are giving some great tips/advice.
I really appreciate it.

gll99 - I searched here on 'tweaked wdm' and sure enough some great posts of yours came up. I was going to grab the tweaked WDM drivers on the IuVcr site. But that program is for Win2k/Xp. Are those drivers OK for Win98? Is that where you got yours? Do you know if IuVcr can be used on Win98? I couldn't find that info on their site. I also downloaded VirtualVcr to give that a try with the WDM drivers. I may now be doing some switching between VFW and WDM drivers. Do I need to do anything extra beyond going into Device Manager and removing them (i.e should I manually delete any files?)

Wayland - I see the same jagged lines when I switch to Preview and play the AVI captured file, but I didn't enable that segmented file switch you mentioned. I also was using the Huffy codec & 29.97 fps.
Also you said:

"use the de-interlace filter in VDub and resave the file (again using 'Save segmented AVI'), then just frameserve
to an encoder of your choice."

Bear with a capturing newbie - I downloaded Vdub 1.4.10 here at work & I don't see a 'enable segemented capture' option under file (of course at work I don't have a capture device). "Save segemented AVI' is there.

Where do I get a 'deinterlace filter'? Under Video - filters I don't have anything to select. Ar ethere standalone filters I need to download?
Your description sounds like it's an option once a cap is complete - not while a cap is in progress.
What does 'framserve to an encoder of your choice? entail. I downloaded TmpgEnc and have already made some mpeg-1 files from some simple captures. Also isn't 480x480 used to make SVCD (I'd like to transfer my camcorder tapes to SVCD for my standalone Pioneer dv-333)?

Once again, muchos gracias amigos

[gll99]

The wdm drivers come with some pretty clear instructions. Yes remove the 2 avermedia devices video and audio. You may also have to remove the 2 inf from your inf dir or else windows will just auto install the drivers again when it finds the hardware by itself. You end up reinstalling 4 devices...Phillips tuner, audio, video and crossbar. When you run a capture app you choose the conexant driver. Some apps do not auto mate the link to the audio so you need to link the components together. That is what the crossbar does.

Lately since I posted those original url I have been trying something else.

I went back to the avermedia site and dowloaded the WINME drivers and app. The drivers for winme which are wdm work with the card on win98se...surprise surprise!!!. The winme tuner app is not great for cap unless you want to capture uncompressed but it at least confirms that the drivers work.

I hope its clear to you that with win98se there is no vfw wrapper so you cannot use apps designed for vfw drivers while you have the wdm installed
You will hear of people capping with virtualdub and wdm drivers but they are not running win98se. Its also why they often have problems because even those who can cap with it do so with the wrapper which does not work well with all wdm drivers. If it works for them then great but there are so many threads where users have problems and don't seem to know why since it works for someone else.

If someone ever finds a win98se vfw-wrapper I would love to hear from you.

Freeapps... for wdm ... AMCAP (there are a couple of free modified versions of the original out there) and FreeVCR.

Demos...PowervcrII, windvr For mpeg, winvdr for avi and wmv and showshifter for avi. Iuvcr may work but newer versions geared to win2000. All the others listed on the Tools page under capture use vfw drivers as far as I remember. I wish they would split that list up.


With vfw drivers and vdub the vertical resize or reduction (I can't view it) (480 to 240) is just before the custom setting on the same menu item.

[medievil]

What capture chip does the Aver use? If it's a BT848 you can use generic WDM Drivers in Win98,98se, etc... Also if it Is an BT848 there is a program called Deinterlacer that allows capture as well as all the proper pull down etc.... It's still a work in progress but I've had some success with it.

[gll99]

cards can vary a bit bt848, bt878, bt879.

Mine is a bt878 and its the same as this user although the chipset could have been slightly different depending on when it was purchased.

and yes they are all compatible with win98se and wdm drivers.

[medievil]

just curious if you know what the difference between the different Chip revisions. Mine is an 848 but works fine. Just curious if an 878 or higher is any different in quality.

[csaag]

Thanks a heap gll! Will try all thisout once I get the car up and running again (it'salways something...)

Wayland - I saw the 'interlace' option under video filter once I hit the 'add' button. Still trying to figure out exactly what 'frameserve to Tmpgenc' entails. This may be a dumb question, but aren't TV broadcasts interlaced?
My intention is to burn a SVCD to view on TV via my Pioneer 333, so even though I see the jagged lines on the PC due to interlacing, would the resultant SVCD play fine on a TV? Obviously I'd try the interlace filter if I were viewing it on the PC. Thanks

[Waylander076]

Csaag the filter you need is DE-Interlace.
Select this from Vdub's 'Filters menu'..click on 'add filter', select
'de-interlace' and then 'configure'.
Select 'Blend both fields' and click 'OK'.

I know PAL TV broadcasts are interlaced not sure about NTSC ones
which brings us nicley to the jagged lines in preview mode question...
you will still see them as Preview mode is exactly that a preview of
what's being captured.

Enabling the 'Multi segment capture' means you can cap more than the
4 gig that win 98 allows.

The 'Enable segmented capture' is under the capture menu not file
menu as i previously stated..sorry about that!

'Frameserve to TMPEG' entails sending your captured file to the Mpeg Encoder called 'TMPEG'..guides for framserving can be found on the left.
Basically what framserving does is to send your AVI file to the MPEG
encoder frame by frame fro encoding.

If you're going to do SVCD cap at 480x480 as this is the NTSC SVCD resolution.If you use VirtualDub and it's filters and frame serve to Tmpeg
you should get some good looking SVCD's.

Regards
Waylander

[csaag]

I actually meant de-interlace - just got lazy on the typing; shouldn't really do that when other people may be looking in.
Didn't realize that 'frameserve to Tmp' meant to start up Tmg and open tha captured AVI file and then initiate the mpeg conversion process; I've already done that a few times just experimenting.

You guys have been a HUGE help - thanks again.

[gll99]

csaag

One point of clarification, if you decide to switch to wdm drivers, although you will not be able to capture with virtualdub all other features are fully functional. You can still open files, edit, frameserve apply filters, etc...

It's a great app.

[csaag]

Didn't realize that - thanks. Will try all the suggestions here for the VFW/VXD drivers first - once I get that successful I'll probably try the WDM drivers for comparisons sake.