After Effects -> Premiere Pro -> Encore via Dynamic Link?

[Asterra]

Approximately a year ago, I spent a great deal of time on a home video project, opting to create it primarily with After Effects because of the superior editing flexibility, the unambiguous support for 1920x1080, and the absence of guesswork over whether a video is using 16-235 or 0-255 colorspace (Premiere Pro was crushing my whites, and I didn't like that). I was using a CS3 package.

When it came time to render, I eventually figured out how to rework it as 1080i60 and frame serve it to Encore. Unfortunately, Encore was an astonishingly buggy app, and it would always spit out an error upon completing the first of two passes. Lacking a resolution, nor any real forum talk on the issue, I settled for AE's own built-in H.264 codec, which was single pass only.

Now here we are, more than a year down the road, and apparently AE is still unable to do two-pass H.264. This is the sort of arbitrary, stubborn, anti-consumer decision which I frankly hope will someday bite Adobe on the arse. But meanwhile, I need a solution. I don't have CS4 right in front of me yet (going to get a glimpse soon), but here's what I was thinking.

Step 1: Somehow utilize the finalized .AEP project file within Premiere Pro, either by loading it directly if it has that capability (I doubt it, since it's 0-255 colorspace), or using Dynamic Link.. again, if that's even possible.
Step 2: Put in some chapter marks, add a second audio track (don't laugh, but I'm going to be adding a director's commentary so I can whine about what an immense pain the project was to complete), and then use Dynamic Link to feed the result to Encore.
Step 3: Hopefully Encore has fewer bugs, or at least is now able to two-pass H.264 encode a frame-served video without crashing after a single 24-hour (!) pass.

Anyone have any takes on this? Suggestions? Experience?

You may be thinking.. render the whole thing as raw. I calculate that it would take 2.667 TB. Storage is easier these days, but it's not that easy. 2.7 TB is just absurd as the idea that Adobe doesn't have a solution for me. So there's got to be a solution.

[fitch.j]

I use Dynamic link from Prem Pro to Encore regularly for my projects and havent had any real issues at all with CS4.

I don't Link from AE, as i simply composite in AE and all editing is done in premiere, I've always found it simpler and more stable to simply render out of AE and then import to Prem. This however may not work for you if your 'editing' in AE. Especially with the filesize you have calculated.

I dont see why your going to want to use Premiere for what you have explained though?

You can Dynamic link an AE Comp directly into Encore, and add your chapter markers and another audio track in there. Unless your wanting to edit more after AE why go through Prem?

[Asterra]

There were really just a few reasons why I wanted to pass the project through Premiere Pro:

1: The last time I tried to get Encore to do something with an AE project, it gave errors. Not right away, either, but after it was half done (taking 24 hours to get that far). This approach has left a bad first impression.

2: I wanted to set chapter marks, and Premiere Pro is handy at this. I wasn't aware that Encore could do this, but I have to say that I consider Encore to be a necessary evil - still too early in its developmental history to be reliable enough for anything more than the unavoidable task of compiling the Bluray image.

3: I wanted to add another audio track, and the audio track is going to require some heavy editing, based specifically, and with some precision, on what the video is doing. While it is possible to achieve this with AE, the fact that AE has been denied any truly useful audio integration means it is quite infeasible. Premiere Pro is set up for this sort of work. I'd really like to handle it in Audition but that app doesn't have any video preview integration that I know of. I have serious doubts that Encore has audio editing capabilities.

4: I understand that Bluray's colorspace is 16-235. This is the native colorspace in Premiere Pro also. If I import the AE project to Premiere Pro (however that gets done), I can then hopefully analyze the video to determine whether Premiere Pro has crushed my levels or scaled them, and, if the latter, how accurately it performed that famously complicated task. Anyway, something will have to be done before the video gets encoded. I view this aspect of the project with dread.

[fitch.j]

I see where some of your points come from, and the reasons behind them.

I have never dynamicly linked something that has another dynamic link within it, effectivly linking to a link to a project. This may cause you more issues than it would save. It also causes issues when trying to problem solve, because you wont be able to clearly see whereabouts on the chain of links the un-desirable effect has been added.

As for Encore, i think it has moved on immensly, i will admit i didnt use Encore CS3 as i don't upgrade often enough to get every release, however that was the first version to support BD and i think a lot of the issues have been worked through that plagued it from the beginning.

The entire of CS4 is very integrated, and seems to work very well with itself, i've had more issues burning video files in encore than i do burning Dynamicly Linked timelines.

As for your Audio track, i understand you reasoning for using Premiere for that, however if i was you i would do it slightly differently, it may require a little more work, but lead to a more stable project in Encore, which is what you see as the real problem.

I would Link the AE comp to Premiere, and then edit the audio as i wished, to match the film and create the second audio track. I would then export this audio as a file on its own. I would then open Encore, Link the AE project, add the chapter markers (which is as easily done in encore as in Premiere) and then also add the second audio track that i created. This way you are limiting the Links to just one, and also providing Encore with as much original video information as possible.

Hope this helps

[Asterra]

Thanks for the detailed post.

I've had a chance to play around with CS4 now. On a friend's pc and then on my own. I am forced to conclude that Dynamic Link is not able to cope with an AE project that is two hours long - not even if the project is 99% nothing more complicated than scaling and cropping various raw video clips. Every time I would use Dynamic Link, be it from within Premiere Pro, Encore or even Media Encoder, it would sit there thinking about it for about three minutes before eventually giving up due to an unspecified error.

However, importing the AEP directly into Premiere Pro without using Dynamic Link gives a good result. The AEP can even be played.

It remains to be seen what my encoding options are at that point. The goal is a two-pass, Bluray-compatible H.264 encode. Encore cannot import AEP files, so Encore cannot provide the encode. Same story with Media Encoder. At this stage, I am seriously considering rendering one gigantic raw, to compensate for the shortsighted implementation of Dynamic Link.

Whatever I decide, I am first going to need to figure out what the best option is for scaling my 0-255 colorspace project down to a Bluray-compatible 16-235. Use AE? Premiere Pro? Does the H.264 codec do this automatically? Worst case scenario is my blacks and whites get crushed. Runner up is I'm only able to find a colorspace scaler that introduces quantizing artifacts, as is likely common.

More research ensues.